Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[DianaRose]

(A brief list of profile links may be of use.

• Laurel700 (@Laurel700) | Twitter
• Siberia (@Sib_eria) | Twitter
• Skysira (@skysira) | Twitter )

That's my Twitter handle: @AvaDalley13 . I'm already following Laura. I'll follow the rest of you. But to be honest, I find even those against the deep state/ western imperialism have so many blind spots. Some things they get right, but they are many things they would rather ignore. For example, a lot of Trump supporters seems to be pro-war, care about US "exceptionalism" or would be irate if you mentioned imperialism. And most simply can't understand racial minorities grievance / discrimination. They also rarely know much about history. As for those, on the "left" who get Western imperialism, you can't really have a discussion with them about immigration or identity politics. Also, though they don't like Hillary, they can't see why Trump was the better pick. I'm not despairing, more like extremely shocked.

 

[DianaRose]

That's what I mean that there's not much to be found from Conservative side. Most of them care for little except American so called exceptionalism. We were talking about how the US came to be and Christianity. This person could not admit that "Native Americans" were slaughtered and that all Americans are essentially immigrants. Similiarly, he could not admit that Christianity caused its share of bloodbath throughout history. And obviously everything was the fault of those bloody immigrants! To be honest, for me most conservatives are not much better than liberals.

 

[Siberia]

Interesting news:

President Trump screamed at aides when he found out the US planned to expel 60 Russian diplomats: Report

President Trump screamed at aides when he found out the US planned to expel 60 Russian diplomats: Report
by Naomi Lim | April 15, 2018

“There were curse words, a lot of curse words,” a White House official told the Washington Post after the announcement was made public on March 26.
Alex Brandon

President Trump was reportedly furious when the U.S. plan to expel 60 Russian diplomats was made public, hurling expletives and insults at White House aides he claimed misled him regarding the magnitude of his own administration's response to the poisoning of a former Russian spy in the U.K.

“There were curse words, a lot of curse words,” a White House official told the Washington Post after the announcement was made public on March 26.

The day before staffers had briefed Trump at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida on their proposal to expel 60 Russian diplomats and suspected spies following the poisoning of Sergei Skripal with a military-grade nerve agent in the British city of Salisbury.

The number approximately represented the same total number that would be ousted by European partners as part of a coordinated effort to condemn the act of Russian aggression on foreign soil.

“We’ll match their numbers. We’re not taking the lead. We’re matching,” Trump reportedly told aides.

Trump was then outraged at ensuing media coverage that portrayed the U.S. as taking the toughest stance against Russia compared to the likes of Germany and France, which only ousted four diplomats apiece.

 

[Laura]

Interesting news:

President Trump screamed at aides when he found out the US planned to expel 60 Russian diplomats: Report

Notice that the origin of this report is the Washington Post. Now, why would they want to portray this image of Trump?

 

[Cosmos]

That's what I mean that there's not much to be found from Conservative side. Most of them care for little except American so called exceptionalism. We were talking about how the US came to be and Christianity. This person could not admit that "Native Americans" were slaughtered and that all Americans are essentially immigrants. Similiarly, he could not admit that Christianity caused its share of bloodbath throughout history. And obviously everything was the fault of those bloody immigrants! To be honest, for me most conservatives are not much better than liberals.

Well, I guess that is one of the main things that is so different from how we here on the forum and a number of others around the globe approach things (and I would include Putin and his team in that category). There is a strong drive out there to push people either into the "left" or "right" box with not much space in between. There is also the possibility that a significant portion of the population just can go there and can't really consider "the other side" of the argument. I get the impression that one of the major points that can help people, is to not identify with either side, but on the contrary, be willing to change your believes or viewpoints, at any given point when new information comes in, no matter how hard it is.

I think Jonathan Haidt in his book "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion" has gathered a number of pretty interesting clues why liberals for example don't seem to be able to get the viewpoint of the conservatives, in proposing, that the conservative types, in general, seem to have a bigger moral landscape then liberals.

But thinking back, I think many here on the forum would probably agree, that we all started from a pretty "liberal" point of view, and even though that was the case, we managed to get over our identifications with some of the twisted logics and morals that modern "liberalism" is presenting and advocating after new information came in.

That doesn't mean we still can't embrace some of the worthwhile ideas that were once part of the left (for example that emperial wars are bad and you should take a stand against it). And the other way around, it doesn't mean that we can and should dismiss all ideas "from the right" or blindly embrace them.

At the moment it seems though, that the left has gone totally bunkers in so many aspects, that simple pointing those things out will easily put you in "the right box" although that is not the point and that isn't where we should go I think.

It might also be the case that a significant amount of people that can't look out of the left or right box are simply unable to do that while another part has the possibility to use their brains and their conscience to approach new fields "on the other side" vie new infromation and critical thinking.

 

[angelburst29]

An interesting twist ... Jon Lerner, a senior aide to United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, was named Pence’s top adviser on foreign policy issues, and just quit after two days on the job?

04/16/2018 - Pence National Security Aide Steps Down Two Days After Being Named To Job
Pence National Security Aide Steps Down Two Days After Being Named To Job | HuffPost

A new national security aide to U.S. Vice President Mike Pence stepped down on Sunday, only two days after being officially named to the job, after a behind-the-scenes White House argument hit the headlines, a White House official said.

The appointment of Jon Lerner to Pence’s team was one of the more short-lived personnel moves in a White House known for turbulent staff turnover and infighting, and the first to envelope the vice president, who works hard to stay out of the drama.

Pence’s office had announced on Friday that Jon Lerner, a senior aide to United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, would become Pence’s top adviser on foreign policy issues. By Sunday night, the vice president’s office had issued a second statement that Lerner had withdrawn.

The issue boiled over on Friday, when Pence and his senior staff were on an eight-hour flight to Peru to attend the Summit of the Americas.

President Donald Trump had been become upset, the White House official said, when he was told in error that Lerner was a so-called “Never Trumper” - a term that describes anti-Trump Republicans.

Lerner had backed Republican Senator Marco Rubio during the primary race to pick the party’s candidate ahead of the 2016 presidential election.

Pence phoned Trump and cleared up the tension, the official said. But the short-lived drama became public on Sunday in a report by Axios which said that Trump had initially told his chief of staff John Kelly to ax the appointment and questioned why Pence would have made the pick.

Lerner then offered to withdraw on Sunday night “to minimize the amount of conflict and internal drama,” the White House official said, and Pence decided it was the best option.

Lerner will continue working for Haley, the official said.

 

[Siberia]

Notice that the origin of this report is the Washington Post. Now, why would they want to portray this image of Trump?

Well, they sure use it to frame him - in this particular case to paint him as a Russian puppet.

We can only guess what Trump actually thinks, so my guess is that expulsion of as many as 60 diplomats might not be his idea. But on the other hand he might as well decide that it was a good opportunity to finally demonstrate that he is not a Russian stooge.

 

[herondancer]

We can only guess what Trump actually thinks, so my guess is that expulsion of as many as 60 diplomats might not be his idea. But on the other hand he might as well decide that it was a good opportunity to finally demonstrate that he is not a Russian stooge.

Depending on the lens with which you view Trump, it could have been venting frustration at being blatantly being told what "his decision" would be, as opposed to what he actually wanted to do.

But the Post will subtly spin it as Trump being unhinged. Rock and a hard place indeed.

 

[Ca.]

Published on Apr 17, 2018

 

[Ca.]

Mike Pompeo had secret meeting with Kim Jong-un
Edited time: 18 Apr, 2018 11:53
CIA director and secretary of state nominee Mike Pompeo traveled to Pyongyang last week for a secret meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. President Donald Trump confirmed the meeting Wednesday morning in a tweet.
“Mike Pompeo met with Kim Jong Un in North Korea last week. Meeting went very smoothly and a good relationship was formed. Details of Summit are being worked out now. Denuclearization will be a great thing for World, but also for North Korea!”

Pompeo’s meeting with Kim came at a busy time for the prospective secretary of state. Pompeo faced a grilling from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last Thursday. After being pressed for five hours on his diplomatic credentials, helping orchestrate a meeting between US and North Korean diplomats would be a major coup for the as yet untested diplomat, who still carries a reputation in Washington as a “war hawk.”

News of the meeting comes after Trump hosted Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Florida yesterday. During the meeting, the president alluded to direct talks with the North Korean government at “extremely high levels.”

The meeting between Pompeo and Kim represents the highest level American contact with the North since 2000, when Jo Myong-rok, a senior military figure, traveled to Washington for a meeting with President Bill Clinton. Secretary of State Madeline Albright visited Pyongyang shortly afterwards.

Trump mentioned that several locations were being considered for upcoming meetings with Kim, but revealed little more, other than that negotiations were proceeding well, and Japan was an important partner in the talks.

“Japan and ourselves are locked and very unified on the subject of North Korea,” said Trump. “Depending on various meetings and conversations, we’ll be having meetings with Kim Jong Un very soon. Assuming things go well.”

There is no definite time set for a Trump-Kim summit yet, but Trump said on Tuesday that it would probably take place “in early June or a little before that.”

Kim is due to meet with South Korean President Moon Jae-In next week, for peace talks at the neutral village of Panmunjom on the heavily militarized border between the two countries. In Florida, Trump hinted that he had some role in bringing the two countries to the historic point they are at today.

“They are discussing an end to the war. Subject to a deal, they would certainly have my blessing and they do have my blessing to discuss that,” he said. “Without us – and without me, in particular – I guess you would have to say that they wouldn’t be discussing anything.”

De-nuclearization is expected to be high on the agenda when Trump meets Kim. Washington will be keen to reassure Pyongyang that removing Kim from power is not the objective. During his confirmation hearing last week, Pompeo was coy on North Korea.

12:09 PM - 18 Apr 2018

https://twitter.com/x/status/986683264445411328

11:46 AM - 18 Apr 2018 0:53

https://twitter.com/x/status/986677271850291200

 

[Ca.]

President Trump Praises Work of National Targeting Center, Promises More Support | U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Release Date: February 13, 2018
A strong nation requires secure borders, and U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s National Targeting Center is a key part of the border security mission. That was the message President Donald Trump delivered Feb. 2 to the people working at the center in Sterling, Virginia

“This is quite a facility,” the President told a group, which included Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen, CBP’s Acting Commissioner Kevin McAleenan, CBP officers, Air and Marine and Border Patrol agents, senior officials from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Departments of Justice and State, as well as members of the press. “These are the men and women [those at the National Targeting Center] that really know what’s happening and know how to keep America safe. They’re real professionals.”


After a tour of the facility, President Trump called for tougher enforcement of immigration laws, in particular, against the drug smugglers the center helps to target. Acting Commissioner McAleenan briefed the President that illegal migration dropped in the first few months shortly after his inauguration, primarily due to the administration’s tougher immigration stance. Fiscal Year 2017 marked a 45-year low in U.S. Border Patrol apprehensions. However, increases in illegal border crossing attempts since then have prompted concern.


“We’ve seen a marked increase in hardened smugglers attempting to bring hard narcotics across our borders and into our communities,” said Acting Commissioner McAleenan. “We’ve had increases in every category: cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and obviously fentanyl, a very significantly potent synthetic opioid involved in so many overdoses in the United States.”


Officers at the border and ports of entry check more than 1 million travelers and $6.5 billion worth of imported products on average every day. The sheer volume of that traffic – ranging from cargo containers to mail and express consignment packages to individuals crossing the border – makes it impossible to inspect every entry. The center uses CBP’s own seizure analysis and intelligence information, along with data gathered from other federal, state and local law enforcement sources, to target travelers and cargo that pose the highest risk to U.S. security, including the threat of terrorism, illegal migration, fake or dangerous goods and illegal drugs. CBP also partners with the U.S. Postal Service and commercial express carriers to target possible contraband coming into the country.


In addition to promoting efforts to address illegal immigration, including funding to build and enhance a border wall, the President repeated his commitment to give those who protect the nation’s borders the tools they need to get the job done.


“We’ve really put a lot behind [the National Targeting Center], and we’re going to be putting a lot more behind it,” added President Trump.

Media Releases

April 18, 2018 | Local Media Release
Splash down leads to 900 pounds of marijuana in the Rio Grande Valley

April 18, 2018 | Local Media Release
Zambullida lleva a 900 libras de marihuana en el Valle del Río Grande

April 18, 2018 | Local Media Release
Rio Grande Valley Border Patrol Agents outwit unconventional tactics to net close to $2M worth of marijuana

April 18, 2018 | Local Media Release
Del Rio Sector Hosts Border Safety Initiative

Border Patrol Agents Arrest Three Mexicans, Seize Rifle Cache
Wednesday, April 18, 2018 | Local Media Release
TUCSON, Ariz. – Tucson Sector Border Patrol agents coordinating with Air and Marine Operations agents seized multiple weapons and arrested three Mexican nationals near Ajo Saturday afternoon. Surveillance camera operators from the Ajo Station...

CBP Officers Seize More Than $1.4 Million in Crystal Methamphetamine at the Laredo Port of Entry
Tuesday, April 17, 2018 | Local Media Release
LAREDO, Texas –U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers recently seized a significant amount of alleged crystal methamphetamine with an estimated street value of more than $1.4 million in two separate enforcement actions at the Juarez-... Read More

Border Patrol Discovers Drugs in Vehicle’s Wheel Well
Tuesday, April 17, 2018 | Local Media Release
SALTON CITY, Calif. – El Centro Sector Border Patrol agents arrested a woman suspected of smuggling drugs inside a vehicle’s wheel well Friday afternoon. The incident occurred on April 13, shortly after 1 p.m., when a blue Ford Mustang approached...
Read More

 

[DianaRose]

Well, I guess that is one of the main things that is so different from how we here on the forum and a number of others around the globe approach things (and I would include Putin and his team in that category). There is a strong drive out there to push people either into the "left" or "right" box with not much space in between. There is also the possibility that a significant portion of the population just can go there and can't really consider "the other side" of the argument. I get the impression that one of the major points that can help people, is to not identify with either side, but on the contrary, be willing to change your believes or viewpoints, at any given point when new information comes in, no matter how hard it is.

I think Jonathan Haidt in his book "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion" has gathered a number of pretty interesting clues why liberals for example don't seem to be able to get the viewpoint of the conservatives, in proposing, that the conservative types, in general, seem to have a bigger moral landscape then liberals.

But thinking back, I think many here on the forum would probably agree, that we all started from a pretty "liberal" point of view, and even though that was the case, we managed to get over our identifications with some of the twisted logics and morals that modern "liberalism" is presenting and advocating after new information came in.

That doesn't mean we still can't embrace some of the worthwhile ideas that were once part of the left (for example that emperial wars are bad and you should take a stand against it). And the other way around, it doesn't mean that we can and should dismiss all ideas "from the right" or blindly embrace them.

At the moment it seems though, that the left has gone totally bunkers in so many aspects, that simple pointing those things out will easily put you in "the right box" although that is not the point and that isn't where we should go I think.

It might also be the case that a significant amount of people that can't look out of the left or right box are simply unable to do that while another part has the possibility to use their brains and their conscience to approach new fields "on the other side" vie new infromation and critical thinking.

Yes, it seems that what it is to me. There's a few people that can look both left and right, but most have rigid minds stuck on just one way of thinking.

 

[Ca.]

Yes, it seems that what it is to me. There's a few people that can look both left and right, but most have rigid minds stuck on just one way of thinking.

If one is arguable gullible to excepting the MSM's created artificial reality (as to real world), then one becomes prisoner within the confines of that narrative.

 

[Ca.]

Reports: North and South Korea Discussing Official End To 68-Year War
Apr 19, 2018
http://truthinmedia.com/north-south-korea-discussing-end-war/
Seoul, South Korea – While the Korean war never officially ended after more than six decades, multiple reports indicate that the conflict may soon see an official conclusion. An article from USA Today reports that “South Korea would consider negotiating an end to the decades-old Korean War if North Korea commits to denuclearization,” according to a Seoul official.

As noted by Bloomberg, an official peace treaty has never been signed in place of a 1953 armistice to effectively halt the Korean War. “The peninsula remains bisected in a perpetual stalemate, with the U.S.-backed South Korean military lined up against more than a million North Korean troops,” the publication illustrated. “While tensions have occasionally flared, the two sides have so far staved off another devastating conflict.”

Munhwa Ilbo, a South Korean newspaper, cited an anonymous South Korean diplomatic official in its report that the two Koreas are working on a statement to announce an official end to the Korean war later this month when South Korean President Moon Jae-in and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un meet for the first time.

​

Kim and Moon could also discuss returning the heavily-fortified demilitarized zone separating them to its original state, the newspaper said.​

Pyongyang and Seoul have technically been at war since the 1950-1953 Korean conflict ended with a truce—and not a peace treaty. Geopolitical tensions have occasionally flared up since the armistice, although to date both countries have managed to avoid another devastating conflict.​

A successful summit between the Koreas later this month could help pave the way for a meeting between Kim and President Donald Trump. The U.S. president and North Korean leader are poised to hold talks in late May or June, according to the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).​

While political pundits argue over whether it was President Trump’s “fire and fury” rhetoric, or “masterful” diplomacy on the part of South Korea, North Korea has signaled an increased willingness to consider denuclearization.

The Washington Post reported that current CIA Director and Secretary of State nominee Mike Pompeo “made a top-secret visit to North Korea as an envoy for President Trump to meet with Kim Jong Un, and plans for a possible summit between the two leaders are underway, Trump confirmed Wednesday.”

The report from The Washington Post explained:

​

The extraordinary meeting between one of Trump’s most trusted emissaries and the authoritarian head of a rogue state was part of an effort to lay the groundwork for direct talks between Trump and Kim about North Korea’s nuclear weapons program.​

The clandestine mission came late last month, soon after Pompeo was nominated to be secretary of state. The Pompeo mission was first reported Tuesday by The Washington Post, citing two people with direct knowledge of the trip.​

On Wednesday, Trump acknowledged the outreach and said “a good relationship was formed” that could lead to a landmark meeting between the president and Kim.​

“Mike Pompeo met with Kim Jong Un in North Korea last week,” Trump tweeted. “Meeting went very smoothly and a good relationship was formed. Details of Summit are being worked out now. Denuclearization will be a great thing for World, but also for North Korea!”

Korea experts remain cautiously optimistic about the prospect of denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, but if the recent reports of an official end to the six-decade war are correct, it would prove to be a critical step toward establishing sustained peace in the region.

Apr 19, 2018

https://twitter.com/x/status/987003860882526208

https://twitter.com/x/status/986994992177561600

https://twitter.com/x/status/986979039670931458

Published on Apr 19, 2018

Fleischer on risk of walking away from Kim Jong Un summit
Apr. 19, 2018 - 5:35 - Former White House press secretary on President Trump signaling he may ditch meeting with North Korea's leader.

Mirth
Pompeo has secret sit down with North Korea's Kim Jong Un
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmX2VzsB25s

 

[DianaRose]

"If one is arguable gullible to excepting the MSM's created artificial reality (as to real world), then one becomes prisoner within the confines of that narrative. "

Yes and No. I see plenty of Conservatives (and Liberals) who shun MSM but are trapped in pointless partisan thinking. They are unable to think outside the box. I see plenty who are more preoccupied by illegal aliens and homeless ex-military men than by the fact that their gov spend billions on military operation, hence causing both issues. Similarly, you have some on the left who get heated about statue/ monuments of confederate "heroes" yet not realising that it will only increase the racial divide and resentment they are fighting against. In terms of social issues (lgbt, identity politics...etc) Liberals are generally out of it, but Conservative are equally bad. It's like they wrote this story about "their" country in their head and they can't deviate from it. It's nationalism at its worst for me. I know that at the moment on the forum, Conservative are considered better than the delusional left with its horde of "entitled" minorities. But, to me most of the conservatives (who largely voted for Trump) are equally self-entitled. Their issue isn't so much that the gov is corrupt as it is that because of this corrupt gov *they* and millions of true Americans just like them haven't been able to enjoy the great American life. When America bomb a country they aren't sad because a sovereign state is destroyed. They don't really care about harmless women and children being killed over there. However, they are sad for the American soldiers sent over there and for the money wasted. Soldiers dying for a pointless war is sad and it is equally sad that money is being wasted. My point is that it's always about them, it's never about what happen on the other side or to the world. I mean how can you complain about refugees and illegal aliens when most wouldn't be there if not for the US (and other Western countries) bombing their lands or meddling in their politics?

I used to see Trump's election as some kind of hope ( I was naive, I guess). Now, I think his victory simply reflect what the American people are/have become. Obviously, there are plenty of Trump voters who are thoughtful, but I believe they are in the minority.