Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[StrangeCaptain]

If everything fails resort to insults, I don't know if Trump should comment on this or not, but enough already by attacking a child. It's utterly disgusting and really shows their true colors.

Leftist 'Comedians' Call Trump's 10 Year-Old Son 'Date-Rapist,' 'Homeschool Shooter,' Arsonist
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/leftist-bullies-target-trumps-ten-year-old-son

This is just another sign of leftist hysteria surrounding anything related to President Trump.

I see this "hysteria" coloring discourse on both "sides." The complete disconnect of Democrats from how evil Clinton's foreign policy direction would have been is pathetic. On the other hand, anything a Democrat says or does is now typical leftist whining, etc. I think the real divide in the States is between those who can accept, for example, the US has been capable of throwing all of Syria to the wolves (oops... Sorry, wolves! I don't mean to be insulting by comparing you to ISIS!!!) for some perceived geopolitical gain and those who cannot.

This article on Zerohedge is a pretty good summary of a reality that so many Americans are unaware of and maybe could not accept even if they were aware: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-25/americas-putin-derangement-syndrome?page=1#comment-8874687

It even has video links to Biden essentially admitting to what has happened over there.

There is some group of Trump supporters who don't care and will hysterically clap like seals so long as Trump burps out a Tweet and an executive order about jobs or walls every once in a while no matter how divorced from reality it is. Example: Trump's questioning of why Chevrolets aren't sold in Europe. Well, GM doesn't sell Chevrolets in Europe because it has a brand called Opel.

And then there is some group of Democrats who will hysterically flock around anyone who gives lip service to identity causes no matter how war-mongering that politician is...

While the fact that Trump University existed is enough for me to doubt Trump's intentions, I, like many here, think he will be better for the world than Hillary was if he can manage to change the direction of US foreign policy. However, the profound lack of awareness of so many on both the Trump and Clinton sides makes me doubt that real change can happen except for if, almost accidentally, Trump can walk the tightrope that is framing these changes in language that his base can understand.

It makes me sad that the Standing Rock Lakota people fall between the cracks in what stands for discourse in the States. Now, their cause is just more "social justice nonsense" for the Trump seals and the Clinton seals can appropriate their cause to add credibility to their agenda because Native Americans from many tribes are truly marginalized and could really use some well thought out and concrete support from the nation as a whole.

With respect to this appropriation of their cause, I think of an anecdote. I went to an AIM-sponsored Sun Dance once (AIM = American Indian Movement). Some activists brought a mobile kitchen to support the event. They weren't participating directly, and I imagine it was a way to build relationship between the AIM activists and the largely white environmental activists. However, they cooked vegan food for people from Great Plains tribes. Would a true spirit of service and hospitality not necessitate serving meat to an ethnic group that is nearly carnivorous when left to its own devices? No... Let's take a moment to evangelize the savages to our super special, environmentally friendly diet.

Having said all of that, I am still hopeful that some interesting changes can happen if some concrete steps towards reversing the US' interventionist policies can be enacted, but this American tendency of hysterical reactions towards anything not properly framed in the language of one's peer group is, I think, a big impediment.

Also, I think complexity is rearing its intimidating head. I think all of the problems faced by the world at the moment have reached some sort of critical point of complexity that easily digestible narratives will basically be incorrect. No -ism out there may be capable of explaining and proposing meaningful solutions to the problems we face. We can however follow the basic organizational model of deciding on a basic mission and basic values and planning according to them. But how can this be done in say the US when the "2 sides" are incapable of seeing where their values overlap?

The "snowflakes" can't allow themselves to have a conversation with the "bigots" and vice versa. And even worse, they allow themselves to be corralled into increasingly incomprehensible stances.

It all makes me think of the Tower of Babel. Everyone is speaking, and no person can understand another. All the while, the construction of the tower has stopped. No progress is possible.

Let me be clear. I do not advocate seeking middle ground to the exclusion of truth. I guess I am pointing out that despite some reasons to hope that Trump may challenge the Cold War status quo, I fear too many of his followers don't understand how destructive the Deep State has been throughout the world, and too many Democrats are also ignorant of this. This ignorance, so efficiently cultivated by mainstream press and education, essentially cloaks the middle ground that the "2 sides" could have.

So so sooooooo Tower of Babel right now...

 

[luc]

Latest tweet from Trump:

Ungrateful TRAITOR Chelsea Manning, who should never have been released from prison, is now calling President Obama a weak leader. Terrible!

Yeah, hopefully this is just strategy - he said to the CIA guys that he "has their backs", after all.

Another deeply disturbing thing about Trump is his stance on torture. In yesterday's interview with abc news, he said that he asked people from the intelligence community if torture works, and they said yes. It really does seem Trump is in favor of torture if it keeps 'merica safe. Oh-oh.

There's this session:

Q: (L) Is the campaign to vaccinate everyone part of this project to make sure that everybody gets the viruses that are needed to stop them from progressing?

A: Yes

Q: (L) I know you said that the mark of the beast is something that relates to anybody who accepts torture and that sort of thing, but some of those old ideas about the mark of the beast, it's like DNA is code... So, maybe have these virally implanted genetic instructions could be considered as the mark of the beast.

A: It goes together!

Q: (L) So if they get these virally implanted DNA codons or something, that then makes them of the type of person who is accepting of the bad waves and the torture and so forth...

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval) Can we assume that most of the population of the planet is infected with these kinds of parasites?

A: Many, not most. Some have strong resistance. And also, some have compensatory counteractive codons.

Well, Trump is critical of vaccination, but he also supports torture, at least overtly... It's difficult to know what his real plans are - appeasing the military-industrial complex and the intelligence community might be so high on his list (maybe for good reason) that he will say anything for now that makes them happy.

Here's yesterday's interview:

https://youtu.be/XRnVdgmnBHA

 

[Mike]

SOTT has carried some of the articles from US Uncut in the past. Someone on my friends list posted this article on FB.

http://usuncut.com/resistance/nasa-scientists-join-resistance-rogue-twitter-account/

Scientists resisting the Trump regime are growing in number, with a new NASA Twitter account emerging that’s solely dedicated to bypassing censorship.

What is interesting about this article to me is right from the open the Trump presidency is already being termed in the negative connotation of the "Trump regime" after less than a week in office.

It might turn out to be so and it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy completed by a feedback loop from the reactions of people on the left that is increasingly aggressive and then violent and then the reactions of the Trump presidency and people on the right to these reactions where people on both sides don't think and contemplate, but instead let illusions and delusions rule them via biases and let emotions loose. It does look like a 'color' revolution coming the US is a distinct possibility with people losing their heads.

Imagine if there is some spark or catalyst from the TPTB, who want to push Trump and the divided American people in a certain direction, even if it is not on the level of 9/11. Things could start to change drastically and get out of hand overnight.

edit: grammar

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= luc]Well, Trump is critical of vaccination, but he also supports torture, at least overtly... It's difficult to know what his real plans are - appeasing the military-industrial complex and the intelligence community might be so high on his list (maybe for good reason) that he will say anything for now that makes them happy.[/quote]

I think Trump talks a tough game about torture because it sells the message that he is capable of doing everything to protects Americans.

So Trump talks about being pro torture. But his actions proof otherwise by appointing General Mattis as his Secretary of Defense???

Who is apparently anti torture by having said:

I've never found it to be useful. I've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture.'"

So, like you said. I also think he might just be appealing to the populace and the right kind of powers in order to get things done in the long run, it's all part of the show. Hopefully.

 

[angelburst29]

Latest tweet from Trump:

Ungrateful TRAITOR Chelsea Manning, who should never have been released from prison, is now calling President Obama a weak leader. Terrible!

For whatever reason, this guy isn't going to be easy to pin down or interpret - possibly on purpose. Well..currently hoping he's doing it on purpose. You know...crazy like a fox. The alternative is...... :/

Just my interpretation, many of Trump's tweets and statements tend to be taken at "face value" by the general public, without looking deeper for clues? Some of his statements are straight forward and to the point, while other's seem confusing at first glance. Take "Make America Great Again" as an example. What is your definition of "great"? It's kind of - open ended - where you can insert your own interpretation. Plus, I think we need to take into consideration, Trump is working from a different platform/higher level where confidential information is at his finger tips verses main stream media.

In the above tweet, notice "TRAITOR" is the only word capitalized. Chelsea Manning, by a different definition, is a Whistleblower. After Obama announced he was commuting Manning's sentence - WikiLeaks Assange, another Whistleblower "praised" Obama - while a publication came out suggesting extradition of Snowden, also a Whistleblower, from Russia would be "a perfect Inauguration gift". By openly calling Chelsea Manning "a traitor" - by extension, Trump is suggesting that he considers Assange and Snowden in the same category and won't be commuting any sentence or extradition on their behalf? It's like Trump is putting distance between himself, as President and the Whistleblowers? At the moment, Trump is still getting his White House in order, which is the main priority. Question could also be asked, "Why did Obama wait until the very last moment of his presidency to commute Manning's sentence?"

 

[Laura]

This article on Zerohedge is a pretty good summary of a reality that so many Americans are unaware of and maybe could not accept even if they were aware: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-25/americas-putin-derangement-syndrome?page=1#comment-8874687

It even has video links to Biden essentially admitting to what has happened over there.

This is a great article, IMO, and really lays it out from the long view.

 

[Aeneas]

There is some group of Trump supporters who don't care and will hysterically clap like seals so long as Trump burps out a Tweet and an executive order about jobs or walls every once in a while no matter how divorced from reality it is. Example: Trump's questioning of why Chevrolets aren't sold in Europe. Well, GM doesn't sell Chevrolets in Europe because it has a brand called Opel.

And then there is some group of Democrats who will hysterically flock around anyone who gives lip service to identity causes no matter how war-mongering that politician is...

[...]

It all makes me think of the Tower of Babel. Everyone is speaking, and no person can understand another. All the while, the construction of the tower has stopped. No progress is possible.

Let me be clear. I do not advocate seeking middle ground to the exclusion of truth. I guess I am pointing out that despite some reasons to hope that Trump may challenge the Cold War status quo, I fear too many of his followers don't understand how destructive the Deep State has been throughout the world, and too many Democrats are also ignorant of this. This ignorance, so efficiently cultivated by mainstream press and education, essentially cloaks the middle ground that the "2 sides" could have.

So so sooooooo Tower of Babel right now...

I do share your concerns. And I think Trump's character works against him. As was mentioned many times before the election, Trump is a big narcissist and that does not change just because he is now the president. He does not suddenly transform into a wise diplomatic Putin who is a master on many levels. That would be to engage in wishful thinking with the resulting disappointments or worse. Trumps has many qualities that works for him, but also a lot of deficits. As also was said about the election, then a lot of people did not vote for Trump, but rather against Hillary.

Now 15 years after the 9/11 attacks the population is totally hysterized and that does not make unifying easy, as the population is conditioned into black/white thinking with no middle ground. Patience mentioned the Tower of Babel and in a black and white world you can see how this plays out. For many, you are either with Trump all the way or you are a transgender libtard. That doesn't leave much room for questioning on either side.

On a sobering note, the C's did say something to the effect that the dye is cast (Alea iacta est), which I took to mean that a certain timeline had solidified. This was said well before Trump, and it could mean that Trump might change a few deck chairs, but it is too late to repair the sinking Titanic. In line with that, the C's have often said in connection with somebody's fate "...or have we forgotten about Karma?" The collective karma of the misdeeds of the empire is coming home to roost. One way or another.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Patience] I think the real divide in the States is between those who can accept, for example, the US has been capable of throwing all of Syria to the wolves (oops... Sorry, wolves! I don't mean to be insulting by comparing you to ISIS!!!) for some perceived geopolitical gain and those who cannot.[/quote]

Bjorn means bear not wolf or so I was told once. It's old Norse I believe. So if you have said, throwing all of Syria to a pack of bears, Than I would have taken offence to that. :P


But I know, while both sides become more extreme, the moderate middle keeps fading away. That's what we are witnessing now, and if something happens with Trump, be sure that things will explode. The US is powder Keg.

 

[Ca.]

But since it seems that the pipeline is going to get build anyhow. Some sort of real comprise should be made that guarantees and protects the environment and health of those living in the area.

Well, that will be the acid test, won't it - can his administration be considerate enough to work out a compromise with them which doesn't include just ruthlessly ignoring all their wishes in the matter. I'm waiting to see how it ultimately turns out. IIRC, all they really wanted, at least initially, was for the pipeline not to go under the river and especially so near their reservation.

Improving the economy by rapidly creating jobs is great - but if you damage the environment beyond repairing the process, you're just shooting yourself in the foot in the end....

The thing about the jobs claims that it will provide is some what ludicrous. The construction company's that lay these pipelines require a high degree of technical know how. As the pipelines are welded by Machines at the factory, and on the job all computer enhanced.

Heavy equipment operators, are salaried firm employees. Maybe small jobs could be local contractors, perhaps with trump tie's, like moving dirt.

There will small spikes for the local economy though. But that all will be small potatoes compared to the billions generated by crone capitalism.

There will be no jobs for the local indigenous tribes, and still in the fight with the PTB. As Trump has been and still is hostile to the Native American Indian culture, for quit some time.

Just more unrest as others have stated. It will be a situation to keep an eye on whether the veterans will make another stand with the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation Tribe.

Now that that Trump is in office it will be tell tail of picking the side's of the Money moguls, or the the oath keepers of the Constitution.

https://youtu.be/OiKk5wtXrO0

Technical
HDD's onder de rivier de Spree (Spreewitz Duitsland)
http://en.vshanab.nl/en/news

https://youtu.be/yv-cr3yJqHM

Corporate Interests Bankrolling the Pipeline
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/who's-banking-dakota-access-pipeline

Seventeen financial institutions have loaned Dakota Access LLC $2.5 billion to construct the pipeline. Banks have also committed substantial resources to the Energy Transfer Family of companies so it can build out more oil and gas infrastructure:

Energy Transfer Partners has a revolving credit line of $3.75 billion toward expanding its oil and gas infrastructure holdings, with commitments from just 26 banks.
Sunoco Logistics has a credit line with $2.5 billion in commitments from just 24 banks.
Energy Transfer Equity has a credit line with another $1.5 billion in commitments from most of the same big international banks.

All told, that’s $10.25 billion in loans and credit facilities from 35 banks directly supporting the companies building the pipeline. Beyond the Energy Transfer family of companies, many of the same banks have likewise given big credit lines to the other stakeholders in the pipeline--Phillips 66, Marathon and Enbridge.

These banks expect to be paid back over the coming decades. By locking in widespread drilling and fracking in the false name of U.S. energy independence and security, the banks are increasing our disastrous dependence on fossil fuels.

Meanwhile:
Bad Lip Reading
"INAUGURATION DAY" — A Bad Lip Reading of Donald Trump's Inauguration

https://youtu.be/gneBUA39mnI

 

[JGeropoulas]

Here's a cathartic quick-witted retort to a compilation of all the dim-witted hysteria from those suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome:

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpi3F0E5ro

 

[Joe]

So you're suspicious of how it became such a big a liberal 'cause celebre' in August, after the initial protest camp had been there since April 2016. Fair enough.

No, I'm suspicious that it became a cause celebre at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to me as if, once a perfectly legitimate protest movement even appears to have been 'compromised' by the neoliberal manipulators (possibly encouraged by 4D STS instigators), you'll write that particular movement off, totally, completely, and not look back.

Well, I try to avoid black and white thinking. I won't write any protest off, but in these current times, I'll tend to recognize the likelihood that there's another agenda at work.

It was a native-driven movement, they have perfectly legitimate concerns, there have been plenty of pipeline accidents, if and when the pipeline goes where it goes, it may cause problems and suffering...but now it's (perhaps) being used as an impediment to distract President Trump...so that's all that matters at this point?

Native Americans have perfectly legitimate concerns about a lot of things, but this one got lots of attention. That's my point.

 

[Joe]

A perspective that I haven't seen shared here is that Trump is no savior, he's going to play the game the same way as the 'elite': power politics, keeping in with the big corps and bankers and all the cronyism and vested interests that go along with that. So there will, of course, still be lots of corruption and inequality in the USA under Trump, he'll probably do some pretty despicable things (like all his predecessors). The only good thing that I think MIGHT come out of his presidency is that he'll rein in the foreign warmongering and global chaos created by the 'deep state'. That's a big "might", by the way, but if he achieves it even to a small extent, it could make a big difference.

 

[SummerLite]

Okay everyone, I'm posting this clip from The O'Reilly Factor shown last night. The topic is the crack down on illegal immigration and the focal point is the reintroduction of Kates Law. Kate Steinly was killed by a drug dealer who was deported 6 times and kept reentering the country. What is most interesting to me, is the policy during the Obama years of Catch and Release. Illegals entering the country, registered (I believe) then set free within the country which continued for 8 years. Doesn't look like there was any notice taken of crimes committed by some of these people and was allowed to repeat and continue. What a crime.

https://youtu.be/XQsqnUEx130

Within the TPP where also provisions for the monopoly of copyrights which would further limit the free press. This is discussed and the very bizarre claims by ABC that their coverage of Trump is now copyrighted. I like David Knight, the best reporter on Info Wars in my opinion.

ABC Asserts Copyright Ownership of Trump

https://youtu.be/O8iQFCoKGjs

Man shuts down Trump protest with one simple phrase

https://youtu.be/DHhy2Gk_xik

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Patience] I think the real divide in the States is between those who can accept, for example, the US has been capable of throwing all of Syria to the wolves (oops... Sorry, wolves! I don't mean to be insulting by comparing you to ISIS!!!) for some perceived geopolitical gain and those who cannot.

Bjorn means bear not wolf or so I was told once. It's old Norse I believe. So if you have said, throwing all of Syria to a pack of bears, Than I would have taken offence to that. :P
[/quote]

My life has been a complete lie, you got me curious enough to look it up, I am a wolf !!

Old Norse björg meaning "protection, help" (see also Björg) combined with Old Norse úlfr meaning "wolf".

 

[Laura]

A perspective that I haven't seen shared here is that Trump is no savior, he's going to play the game the same way as the 'elite': power politics, keeping in with the big corps and bankers and all the cronyism and vested interests that go along with that. So there will, of course, still be lots of corruption and inequality in the USA under Trump, he'll probably do some pretty despicable things (like all his predecessors). The only good thing that I think MIGHT come out of his presidency is that he'll rein in the foreign warmongering and global chaos created by the 'deep state'. That's a big "might", by the way, but if he achieves it even to a small extent, it could make a big difference.

Well, he's already really pissed off a lot of peeps - but most of them were dependent on USA handouts. Still, ought not to make enemies.

His comments on torture just were over the top IMO.

Like I said, he could end up being a new Hitler who was, we must remember, very popular and did a lot of good things for Germany. But still, he was Hitler and things ended as they did because he had some serious blind spots and ego problems. If you read Percy Schramm's book about Hitler, (and he had access to stuff others didn't), you can see that Hitler suffered from a sort of Dunning Kruger thing.

Obviously, there are differences and things would certainly be worse with Hillary (and I don't doubt that for an instant), but I see some real issues about Trump and we need to stay on top of this and not soft soap anything.