Couple of thoughts the DAPL pipeline:
luc said:
Thank you Seamas for this information about the pipeline. Even though it is a PR effort, it is useful to know what their arguments are, and they may even be reasonable. I can't say because I don't know enough about this issue. But we don't need to discard these arguments out of hand just because they come from an 'evil corporation', and we don't need to automatically side with the demonstrators just because they are demonstrators. It might be more complex than that, and unreasonable protests DO happen. Again, I can't say in this case.
Trump's general idea of environmental policy sounds about right to me: do away with the billion dollar climate change industry and generally calling this fraud what it is. And then:
_https://www.whitehouse.gov/america-first-energy said:
Lastly, our need for energy must go hand-in-hand with responsible stewardship of the environment. Protecting clean air and clean water, conserving our natural habitats, and preserving our natural reserves and resources will remain a high priority. President Trump will refocus the EPA on its essential mission of protecting our air and water.
In other words, forget climate change, focus on real environmental issues. Can't argue with that.
However, he also has a clear focus on business and self-sufficiency (not unlike Putin BTW, as far as I know), which means that he embraces 'clean coal', shale gas etc. and strengthening US energy production. So there's a bit of a contradiction to his environmental goals.
You can read his stance on the energy issue here: _https://www.whitehouse.gov/america-first-energy
Of course, what he will actually do or can do remains to be seen.
There seems to be a very large impetus for this line (and other lines) to move ahead - now signed. At the oil and gas confluence of the line, CTV had this to say; and one can speculate that the line has future tap line feeds: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/dakota-access-pipeline-explained-what-you-need-to-know-1.3143020 that may have future designs, not sure.
The pipeline starts, at the top, in Northwest North Dakota, at the Bakken Formation – a deposit of oil and natural gas underneath the meeting points of North Dakota, Montana, Saskatchewan and a sliver of Manitoba. It travels southeast into Iowa, Illinois and South Dakota.
It seems to me that we have certain realities in being massive consumers of oil - with much land to criss-cross and houses to heat etc. We also have windmills and solar panels that are not going to meet our nations with their insatiable need for energy. The EU needs the same, they can get it from Russian lines (resisted up till now by Obama and company) or from the Saudi lines (hence Syria being taken apart by Obama and company). Russian lines would come with cooperation and the latter, well that can and was seen with their faithful Western/NATO participants.
The DAPL line has some bad obstacles too, and one is the lands of the Standing Rock. Obviously the Indians are not happy, and I don't blame them. The other obstacles are water courses to cross (go under) and one might feel more comfortable if their pipeline engineering was rock solid, yet it's not, and that does not mean they should not strive for the best possible engineering solutions for the environment - people should expect that, getting it is another matter.
What the Sioux originally said (Obama era) was:
The Sioux tribe wants the pipeline rerouted, and is also putting pressure on the Obama administration to deny ETP an easement to build near the reservation.
The tribe says the pipeline threatens the Missouri River – the region’s water supply – and that the company failed to do necessary environmental reviews before construction.
Members of the Sioux tribe also say the project goes over sacred land that was never ceded.
They seem to have asked and stated a few reasonable conditions, and there are solutions if there is a will to find them.
The link above has some Canadian ties to this project, so thought to add them here:
HOW DOES THE DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE IMPACT CANADA?
While the Dakota Access Pipeline does not directly impact Canada, on August 2, 2016, Enbridge Energy Partners, L.P. (EEP), a unit of Calgary-based energy delivery company Enbridge, announced that they will acquire a 27.6 per cent interest in the Bakken Pipeline System. The price tag: US$1.5 billion.
In addition, three Canadian banks, RBC, Scotiabank and TD Securities, are among 17 financial institutions that have either have financial dealings with the pipeline or with companies that have a stake in the pipeline project. According to an investigation, TD Securities has given $360 million in project-level loans to the Dakota Access pipeline.
Scotiabank has been identified as a lender to Sunoco Logistics, a pipeline operator that will take over operation of DAPL once the project is completed. RBC, meanwhile, has been identified as a lender to Energy Transfer Equity, an affiliate of Energy Transfer Partners. Neither RBC nor Scotiabank, however, have been identified as providing direct, project-level loans to Dakota Access LLC.
Indeed, projects need banks and the above are a few of them from outside the U.S., and as said before, tap lines later may come into play, even from Canada; have not looked at this really.
Then we get from ZeroHedge via OilPrice.com http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Trump-Angers-Buffett-To-Sign-Executive-Orders-On-Keystone-Dakota-Pipelines.html with mention of perhaps one of the prime instigators and leash owners of Obama/Clinton, osit.
t is just day two of his presidency, and already Trump is taking a sledgehammer to the Obama legacy: in his latest move reported moments ago by Bloomberg, president Trump intends to sign two executive actions today that would advance construction of the controversial Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines, putting a spoke, so to say, in the train wheels of Warren Buffett's train-based oil transportation quasi-monopoly.
[...]
{of Keystone} If fully built by developer TransCanada Corp., Keystone would run from Alberta, Canada’s oil sands to the Gulf Coast in Texas, bringing heavy oil sands petroleum to refineries {these are some of the Koch Brothers gulf refineries}. Last month, the Obama administration ordered a comprehensive environmental impact statement to be conducted on the Dakota Access Pipeline before any decision could be made on building its final section below Lake Oahe in North Dakota.
[...]
The two projects require different approvals. Keystone needs a presidential permit to build across the Canadian border, while Dakota Access, developed by Energy Transfer Partners, needs an Army Corps of Engineers easement to build under Lake Oahe.
Expect an angry reaction from Buffett, which will promptly flow through to funded environmental protest groups, who will double down in their defense of the two pipelines, of which the Dakota Access was the prominent center of media attention in the waning days of Obama's presidency.
i.e. Buffet takes a hit on his oil shipping rail car business and the Koch Brothers get a direct funnel to their refineries - kind of a war of dominance between them.
Joe said:
kalibex said:
Joe said:
I think this pipeline protest business is part of either a deliberate campaign to get a revolution going, just one part of the campaign to whip up a certain section of the population, to create a particular climate. The anti-Trump business seems to be part of that. The more I think about it the more I think that the defining aspect of a Trump presidency is going to be some kind of revolution or social chaos in the USA, with Trump simply being used as the fall guy.
Does this statement imply that you believe that the native protestors are also being used and manipulated into taking a stand that they can't win? This no-DAPL protest is not exactly inconsistent with their general beliefs and philosophy. This protest also did not just start with the Trump presidency.
Yeah, and neither did the Black Lives Matter protests. My point is that over the past few years there seems to have been a concerted effort to whip American "do-gooders" and liberal types up by using the media and private funding to give 'legs' to various causes. The DAPL protest
got a LOT of attention that it normally would not have had, but for the funding that went into organizing the protestors. You could say this is part of an 'awakening' of the people to corruption, but there have been a LOT of other pipelines and environmentally-damaging projects over the last 10 years that no one apparently cared about.
So why the DAPL?
Anti-Buffet might be a factor, at least as one aspect.
ShamanSam said:
Since 1990 there an huge increase in resistance to more Native lands being stolen.
Very true.
https://youtu.be/7yP3srFvhKs
:D You can see my cute face throughout the documentary, my speaking role is near the end.
It is better to choose your battles wisely.
It would be an unwise waste of energy, for Native resistance to try and stop a pipeline on non " Native owned land"
Yeah, they would not normally try and do that.
A popular Native saying is, 7 generations.
Which is to remind us, that any major decision must include consideration; for at least, the next seven generations of children.
I have never heard of any pipe that would last 4 generations. With all the sinkholes and cracks recently DAPL is pure folly; guaranteed to fail.
Everything breaks sooner or later.
Indeed, things will deteriorate, as you say, sooner or later. This will not stop the momentum of pipelines, so hope they build good ones and give Standing Rock a big berth and go around another way.
The main reason for DAPL is, what native elders called the white man's disease; greed.
It would be wiser to follow the paradigm shift that is happening and switch to electric vehicles.
They will try for the switch, yet not very particle for many in the North anyway, osit.
A twitter president is a very interesting development.
If I had a way to pull Trump's ear. I would suggest he consider using, the tactics my Indian Reserve has used; to completely turn around our economy.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1207760-membertou-receives-business-award
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/133991-membertou-feted-with-community-spirit-award
http://www.mmnn.ca/2014/04/membertou-receives-award-for-economic-stewardship/
Using this technique on U.S.A. Indian Reservations, may help; in the karma department.
Concerning the video posted above, ShamanSam, had caught this a long time ago and will review (thanks for that). It is interesting too as I was at Kanehsatake/Oka last fall – really nice people and beautiful place. One difference back then, or so I was told, was that what happened there was in the terms of reference of law (and damned wrong regardless). In Kanehsatake, the "Crown" had to back down from their stance of flexing their authority as the lands were titled by treaty, not as a reserve; a failed imperial experiment, but as sovereign territory - and that is another legal story.
I hope this whole thing words out, yet beware the brokers and manipulators by proxy of all sides.
