UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack (and others)

Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Windmill knight said:
Yes, but notice the replies to the twitt are mostly against it. I think people are really in the mood for voting Corbyn into power. Whether 'they' let him in is another story; the election might be rigged.

Yep, there’s a noticeable change the last couple of weeks, the sense that things are shifting and people feeling a little bolder / more untied in finding and sharing their voice. Lots of peeps in my FB circle that never like, share or post political have now been doing so. I mean, these are pope that never do politics (and I had assumed would have un-followed my feed long ago!), suddenly posting pro-Corbyn stuff. It’s stopped me in my tracks a couple of times in surprise.

There was a real sense that any momentum would lost following the Manchester attack, but in a way, and on the small scale that you can observe within FB contacts it seems to have galvanized people. I guess all we can do is press on, keep sharing our thoughts, adding to the 'social proof' and see what happens And yes, have fun doing it!
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Alada said:
Windmill knight said:
Yes, but notice the replies to the twitt are mostly against it. I think people are really in the mood for voting Corbyn into power. Whether 'they' let him in is another story; the election might be rigged.

Yep, there’s a noticeable change the last couple of weeks, the sense that things are shifting and people feeling a little bolder / more untied in finding and sharing their voice. Lots of peeps in my FB circle that never like, share or post political have now been doing so. I mean, these are pope that never do politics (and I had assumed would have un-followed my feed long ago!), suddenly posting pro-Corbyn stuff. It’s stopped me in my tracks a couple of times in surprise.

There was a real sense that any momentum would lost following the Manchester attack, but in a way, and on the small scale that you can observe within FB contacts it seems to have galvanized people. I guess all we can do is press on, keep sharing our thoughts, adding to the 'social proof' and see what happens And yes, have fun doing it!

This has surprised me as well. The terror attack has had very little effect. In fact, it has provided a lot of opportunity for people to spread the idea that we should stop bombing foreign countries and creating terrorists! And when they came out with that 'Corbyn is weak on terrorism' stuff, many seem to have seen it to be obviously crass and opportunistic, if not suspicious timing as well.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Ant22 said:
Sounds like fun indeed :) And just like yourself, a lot of people do check out the comments to see what other people's views are so I guess it's worth ensuring the comments are a useful read!

Yep, even in the Daily Mail, the comments section can be quite an eye opener, a lot of support for Corbyn and/or just general dissatisfaction with the Theresa May and the Tories. There seems to be a growing narrative too that the Tory campaign is a disaster, and that in the right wing press, The New Statesman, The Spectator, Telegraph, even creeping into the Daily Mail!

Go read the "best rated" comments here for example, from the Daily Mail:

Theresa May to relaunch her election campaign after disastrous 'dementia tax' backlash and Manchester terror attack as poll shows the Tory lead has shrunk to just six points
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Windmill knight said:
Ant22 said:
Right on the money about the Conservatives using the latest terrorist attack in Manchester to portray Corbyn as a weak leader. They went a step further in their recent Twitter election campaign ad IMO and put together a video consisting of out of context sentences (or even chunks of sentences) that portray Corbyn as a leader who opposes fighting terror: https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/868217762027536384/video/1

Yes, but notice the replies to the twitt are mostly against it. I think people are really in the mood for voting Corbyn into power. Whether 'they' let him in is another story; the election might be rigged.

I've made a point of following TM and the Conservatives on Twitter (as well as others) for the sole purpose of replying to their BS and doing a bit of 'trolling'. ;) I don't ever expect a reply from them but at least I'm having fun!
Yes I read the replies and I think the tides have changed and the momentum is now getting behind Corbyn though of course lots of time for that to change. Also the attacks will increase on Corbyn never mind the the vote rigging which we can expect without question.

I watched Corbyn been interview on Peston on Sunday.
https://youtu.be/z2ORlBkYB1E
I thought Peston was pushing him aggressively trying to get him to slip up. His answers especially when asked about the IRA and talking to ISIS were great and I thought he took the wind out of Peston's sails. He comes across well and he seems to know his stuff which I find refreshing for a politician. I like your idea of having bit of fun trolling May and the Tories. Keep up the good work Windmill Knight. I may do it myself if I get chance.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Carl said:
Alada said:
Windmill knight said:
Yes, but notice the replies to the twitt are mostly against it. I think people are really in the mood for voting Corbyn into power. Whether 'they' let him in is another story; the election might be rigged.

Yep, there’s a noticeable change the last couple of weeks, the sense that things are shifting and people feeling a little bolder / more untied in finding and sharing their voice. Lots of peeps in my FB circle that never like, share or post political have now been doing so. I mean, these are pope that never do politics (and I had assumed would have un-followed my feed long ago!), suddenly posting pro-Corbyn stuff. It’s stopped me in my tracks a couple of times in surprise.

There was a real sense that any momentum would lost following the Manchester attack, but in a way, and on the small scale that you can observe within FB contacts it seems to have galvanized people. I guess all we can do is press on, keep sharing our thoughts, adding to the 'social proof' and see what happens And yes, have fun doing it!

This has surprised me as well. The terror attack has had very little effect. In fact, it has provided a lot of opportunity for people to spread the idea that we should stop bombing foreign countries and creating terrorists! And when they came out with that 'Corbyn is weak on terrorism' stuff, many seem to have seen it to be obviously crass and opportunistic, if not suspicious timing as well.

Agreed, I was completely shocked when my sister said she was voting labour and we had an actual discussion about politics, which has never happened before. She said she had become interested since Grime artists like Lowkey and JME and Akala had recently expressed their support for Corbyn and laid the reality of the situation out in a simple and easily understandable way, which she hasn't seen before. I have heard similar things from co-workes. The common thoughts seem to be that "Tories aren't for the working class" "they don't care about us", "things will only get worse with them in power".
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

For anyone interested there's a live debate with some of the party leaders, minus Theresa May, streaming live on Twitter now: https://twitter.com/i/live/861732137824788481
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Jenn said:
For anyone interested there's a live debate with some of the party leaders, minus Theresa May, streaming live on Twitter now: https://twitter.com/i/live/861732137824788481
I'm watching this and just been thinking what the public wil think about May not bothering to participate. I was also pondering on the fact the Tory campaign is probably the most inept I've ever seen or can remember. Aside from the fact it could well be rigged and they think they are safe. could it be a possibility that they know the big crash is coming and it could well be better with another party at the Helm.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Thebull said:
Jenn said:
For anyone interested there's a live debate with some of the party leaders, minus Theresa May, streaming live on Twitter now: https://twitter.com/i/live/861732137824788481
I'm watching this and just been thinking what the public will think about May not bothering to participate. I was also pondering on the fact the Tory campaign is probably the most inept I've ever seen or can remember. Aside from the fact it could well be rigged and they think they are safe. could it be a possibility that they know the big crash is coming and it could well be better with another party at the Helm.

That's a possibility yes, I just wonder why there was/is such a media bias against Corbyn if Tories would happily hand the reins over, unless it's all for show? Although May and other Conservatives still seem to be trying their hardest to demonize Corbyn and make him out to be a clown, it does seem as if they are somewhat desperate, now resorting to personal attacks. It did not go down well atall with the other parties that May didn't even bother to turn up, and I saw comments on twitter that also expressed this, I had a little fun trolling some people while the debate was on :lol:

All in all I think the Green Party came off well but I don't think they stand a chance, Paul Nuttal from UKIP came off as a twerp, ramping up the fear about businesses leaving the UK if there was a corporation tax increase, going on about immigration and openly attacking Muslims. Corbyn presented himself well, he seemed more definitive with his answers at times and passionate about helping those in need, embodying the leadership qualities that everyone doubts he has, there was one point where I felt he faltered abit (i cant remember which bit it was though).

Amber Rudd who was stand-in robo lady for Theresa, was an excellent replica and used cold and manipulative tactics to smear Corbyn, saying Corbyn's economy plans were basically a load of imaginary rubbish, and that all the squabbling between MP's indicated what kind of a government he would lead. But there was no hiding the facts when they were presented by the other MP's. Corbyn definitely got the biggest applause from the audience IMO.

All in all the other MP's did a good job of calling out the Tories for their horrid policies.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Thebull said:
Jenn said:
For anyone interested there's a live debate with some of the party leaders, minus Theresa May, streaming live on Twitter now: https://twitter.com/i/live/861732137824788481
I'm watching this and just been thinking what the public wil think about May not bothering to participate. I was also pondering on the fact the Tory campaign is probably the most inept I've ever seen or can remember. Aside from the fact it could well be rigged and they think they are safe. could it be a possibility that they know the big crash is coming and it could well be better with another party at the Helm.

That's on my mind too. We've seen what they can achieve when they go all-out, just look at French presidential election and Macron. In comparison the Conversative 'campaign' has been an absolute mess. I know they suffer from wishful thinking but I feel like the masters of the universe must be letting this one slide for a reason.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack


[size=14pt]Election poll latest: Theresa May's lead slashed to record low of three points as Labour close in on Tories
[/size]


Labour is closing the gap with Tories and now stands just three points from Theresa May’s party, a new YouGov poll shows.

The poll, commissioned by The Times, found the Conservative lead has slipped dramatically in recent weeks and is now within the margin of error.

The figures show the Conservatives on 42 points but Labour are close behind on 39.

Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrats are struggling to maintain the momentum of their "fightback" as they slip to just 7 per cent vote share.

The poll points to a remarkable change in fortunes for the Tories, which had a 24-point lead over Labour when the snap general election was called in April.

Ms May has struggled in recent weeks after she was forced into an embarrassing U-turn over plans to reform social care in the party's manifesto.

The party said elderly people who needed care will be able to put off playing for it until after their deaths so they could potentially stay in their own home for as long as possible.

But critics said this would unfairly penalise people who suffer a slow decline from illnesses like dementia, over people who die suddenly and can then leave their estate to their children.

Ms May has faced criticism for refusing to to engage with voters, especially after she declined to take part in televised debates.

During the debate, Green party leader Caroline Lucas said: “You don’t call a general election and say it is the most important election in her lifetime and then not even be bothered to debate the issues at hand."

She added: “I think the first rule of leadership is to show up."

The YouGov poll also shows Ms May's personal appeal over Jeremy Corbyn is slipping.

It found 30 per cent of respondents think Mr Corbyn would be a better Prime Minister – the highest it has ever been – while Ms May's personal favourability has slipped to 43 per cent from 45 per cent.


It comes as Ms May is planning a speech to refocus the campaign on Brexit on Thursday where she will say it is a "great national mission" which she is best placed to lead.

She will vow to use the "promise of Brexit" to transform the country for the better.

Ms May has used Brexit as a device to attack Mr Corbyn, saying he would find himself "alone and naked" in the negotiations with the rest of the EU.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-polls-latest-labour-tories-corbyn-may-yougov-lead-cut-who-is-winning-a7766171.html

Meanwhile The Times reports that Theresa May will pitch herself as the unifying leader of a "great national mission" in a speech today. The paper says she will seek to "rise above accusations of political cowardice after her refusal to take part in a debate with the other party leaders" on Wednesday night.

Judging by the newspapers this morning Jeremy Corbyn achieved a 'tactical win' just by turning up to last night's television debate. Theresa May's decision not to participate has not been well received by the general public. It all makes for an exciting run up to general election in one week's time! Interesting times for sure.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Perhaps Theresa May is scared stiff of the oncoming storm of chaos that is Brexit and is looking for an easy way out.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Tuulikki said:
Perhaps Theresa May is scared stiff of the oncoming storm of chaos that is Brexit and is looking for an easy way out.

That was my initial thought when she called for the election, but it doesn't quite make a lot of sense for a party to decide to give away power in the hope that they can get it back later when things are a bit easier. Maybe it's just Theresa May secretly wishing she will lose; perhaps not even she is aware of this. That would explain in part her horrible performance during this campaign. Meanwhile, the media as well as the tories thought that the real plan was to gain a few seats in Parliament, and now not only is that not going to happen, but they might lose it all to Corbyn completely. Which is beautiful. Wishful thinking and a big miscalculation that would be.

I wonder if the "big miscalculation" that the Cs talked about years ago did not refer to one single event but to several and whether this is one of them? Even if they rig the election the whole country will be against them, so how are they going to handle that? Given how badly she has performed and looking at the reactions of people, I find it hard to believe that the tories have as many as 42 points in the polls. I think they are partially fixed to not make it look as embarassing as it really is.

The UK people should stop worrying about Brexit, by the way. This election is about so much more than that.
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

This article dicusses just what we were talking about:

Is Theresa May actually TRYING TO LOSE this election? Is something “weird” going on?

http://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-may-trying-lose-election-something-weird/

By
Alex McNamara -
22nd May 2017

There’s an old proverb, most widely known from its paraphrasing in the 1995 film, The Usual Suspects:

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.

It’s actually based on a saying by the French philosopher, Charles Baudelaire. (But be warned – providing that level of detail might mean not getting invited back to dinner parties.)

In essence, what the philosophy suggests, is the best defence for an immoral/illicit or heinous scheme is denying its very existence. To ridicule the suggestion as ‘fantastical’, ‘far-fetched’, ‘superstitious’ etc. In modern context, the same philosopher would probably argue some of what many deem ‘tin-foil hat conspiracy theories’ could well be true after all. Not-so-secret secrets, hiding in plain sight.

It’s a persuasive and pragmatic philosophy – not ‘loony’ at all. It’s also a technique reflected in military strategies over centuries, documented by writers such as Machiavelli and Sun Tzu: the notion of ‘misdirection’, deceiving the opponent as to the true make-up and whereabouts of an armed force until it is too late. Politics are a war, no mistake. The two entities are not so far apart, and the same principles apply – probably more so the higher up the echelons you go.

It’s fair to say the Western world is in excessive political turmoil at present (certainly beyond anything I’ve seen in my lifetime). No less so than in our Dis-United Kingdom. And there’s no shortage of ‘conspiracy theories’ as to what could actually be going on with this snap General Election.

Let’s look at a couple of the prominent ones.

The ‘problem’, and what doesn’t add up

Sorry readers, whether you want Brexit or not, few could deny it’s turned our country upside f**king down. It’s unleashed pure hatred and nationalism, provided pseudo-moral authority to bigots, alienated us from our closest neighbours in mainland Europe, and put us in the pocket of tyrants far worse than those we apparently despise so much in Brussels. It’s divided families and friends, and cast the future of millions of people into jeopardy. And perhaps worse than anything else, it could well deliver Brits into the hands of an irremovable far-right/one-party Tory state.

However, here’s the thing. Theresa May and her Conservatives could well now be realising the enormity, and simply impossible mandate of what they’re supposed to deliver Brits with Brexit. The whole ‘Leave’ campaign was based on fairytales, and soon the chickens are gonna come home to roost. They know full well leaving the EU and single market under current circumstances is economic suicide, that the EU won’t play ball, and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility it could collapse the whole sodding country. Even more likely is it could break up the United Kingdom itself.

NB: No Conservative wants the break up of the Great British Union on their record in the annals of history, I guarantee it. Empire is what they’re all about.

Combine that with the fact millions of us are simply gobsmacked by the Tory manifesto. Even some Tories. It’s just so callous and so persecuting of the lesser fortunate, so shamelessly playing for the benefits of the upper classes and elites, it really does beggar belief – even by typical Conservative standards. They’ve also become UKIP, making Cameron and Osborne seem like liberal freedom fighters of yesteryear.

The disabled, unemployed, doctors and nurses, teachers etc, they’ve all already been shafted, but in the past few days/weeks alone, May has deliberately targeted:

pensioners, their triple-lock pensions and fuel allowance,
anyone requiring nursing/social care who owns a home, forcing them to pay equity to the government (instead of passing on to next of kin),
increases to income tax and/or VAT,
increases to interest rates on student loans,
refusal to increase the minimum wage,
reductions to corporation tax,
cuts to the NHS (won’t rule out privatisation),
no guarantee of rights for EU citizens living in the UK,
fines for employers who do employ foreign nationals,
reneged promises regarding the Levenson Enquiry, dropping all proposed restrictions on the Murdoch/Rothermere/Barclay tabloid press,
an entirely volunteered repeat-vote on fox-hunting, openly supporting the hugely unpopular blood-sport,
effectively re-legalising the immoral ivory trade for wealthy British antique dealers,
refusing another referendum for either Scotland or the Brexit deal,
refusal to debate publicly with the leader of the opposition, to speak openly with the press (locking them in cupboards, and staging her own publicity),
restrictions to what British citizens can see on the internet, introducing North Korea-style censorship and state propaganda,
gloating she would “absolutely” initiate a first-strike nuclear attack,
sweeping all Tory campaign ‘mis-spending’ under the carpet, on account of recent legal vindication (ignoring there was nonetheless gross and unresolved over-spending).

Probably a whole load more I’ve forgotten too. ‘Policies’ more at home in a Dickensian novel or dictator handbook than 21st century Britain.

It’s just hideous. And it begs the question – who could possibly vote for this??

Meanwhile, we’ve got Boris on the loose, humiliating us all over the world like a complete and utter f**k-nugget. Some are saying, it’s actually like the Conservatives want to lose this election.

Theory A: The ‘poison chalice’

That’s basically the essence of it. They want to lose. The Tories can no longer polish the turd of Brexit, they know the country is absolutely f**ked – they’ve pushed us off the cliff, and now wish to be as far removed from the inevitable bloodbath as humanly possible. They literally cannot deliver their vacuous promises. By now handing over to Labour (or possibly the Lib Dems, if you believe in miracles) to pick up the pieces, they literally pass the sh*t-laden buck. Then, having spent two years setting Jeremy Corbyn up to look like an incompetent fool, they simply blame the fallout on him. It would make quite a convincing narrative actually. Even more disturbingly, if things really fell apart, it might pave the way for an even more aggressive and nationalistic Tory/UKIP government to finish the job in the future.

And of course, if the non-Tory party in power decided to reverse Brexit – put a halt on the whole daisy-chain off a cliff thing, they’d probably risk actual civil war in this country. The nationalists would tear the place apart. Nigel Farage could well end up becoming the equivalent of Darth Vader.

Backing this theory somewhat is another good point: if Theresa May had just shut the hell up and said nothing, even if the Tories hadn’t bothered to produce a manifesto, or had promised every household a free kitten and a PS4 – they would probably have wiped the floor. Instead, May is revealing her true colours, and making people think twice.

Theory B: ‘The super-villain has to show off ‘

As it’s been joked in countless spoofs, when the super-villain is absolutely confident they’ve won and the forces of good have been defeated; when Bond is tied up, with a laser about to solder his bollocks to the floor, the villain reveals the entire sordid plan.

In other words, as many have said from the word go, Theresa May simply knows she cannot lose this election. (Or at least believes as much.) Given the alternatives are apparently so derisory and so ‘pathetic’, she could quite frankly take a big steamy dump outside Number 10 then roll around in it barking like a dog – the right wing press and average Brit would still think she’s great. (‘Strong and stable’, no doubt.) Let’s face it, half of them wouldn’t be paying attention any way.

In that spirit, she may as well try and enact the unabashed Tory ‘Utopia’. No need for subtlety, or doing it in stages. If she can’t, or at any rate won’t lose the election (see Theory C), she may as well start to kill off the surplus population and enforce state censorship straight off? To do otherwise would be looking a gift-horse in the mouth. It’s opportunism of the most extreme, insidious manner.

Theory C: ‘The devil who doesn’t exist’

This one is more extreme, and would probably receive more ridicule. But really, what actually is there to stop the Tories rigging the election? Or even, simply mis-reporting the results of the vote? Who ultimately reports the figures? Who are the counters employed by? Yes, no doubt there are checks in place to protect the democratic process – probably the same sort of checks designed to protect us from press monopolies, and populist-motivated constitutional changes – eg: checks that have clearly failed.

Before the recent council elections, there were even memes going around telling people to bring their own pens, instead of using the pencils provided at voting stations. (Even for a ‘conspiracy’ I think that’s a bit far-fetched… surely easier to simply bin votes, or not count them than physically change?)

But you could not blame someone for looking at the level of public support Jeremy Corbyn receives, really looking at the hope, love and optimism he inspires among huge swathing crowds across the UK – while our cowardly prime minister skittles about dodging the press and the public – and not see a correlation with the much-trumpeted MSM line that “Corbyn is un-electable, everybody hates him, everybody loves Theresa May.” It just doesn’t quite add up. Whereas the Tories want to crucify just about everybody but the rich, Labour only want to tax more of those earning £80k a year plus. The elite 10%. So how the hell can so many turkeys vote for Christmas??

One possible answer is, they don’t. It’s all a smokescreen.

It was Nazi minister Joseph Goebbels who famously said:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

By determined government cherry-picking of every TV audience, every news report, by ensuring vested interests for the majority of mainstream politicians and political analysts/reporters etc, are we as a populace literally primed for a big fat lie of colossal proportion?

Could we, the people of Britain, be persuaded by the devil he does not in fact exist?
 
Re: UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack

Windmill knight said:
The UK people should stop worrying about Brexit, by the way. This election is about so much more than that.

The Tories are still trying to make it ALL about that though. They're back to buying the front pages of local newspapers again, as they did at the beginning of May. At a glance it looks like a regular front page, the "advertisers notice" copy is relatively small and white out of grey which is not very noticeable. This time it’s all about Brexit. Example from Barnsley below, it was the same ad in our local area too. Fake news.

Petition demanding apology as Barnsley Chronicle runs Conservative advert on front page

Barnsley-Chron-Tory-Page.png
DBO1AVjWAAAcDkB.jpg
 
Another incident in the UK: Van hits pedestrians on London Bridge

I just can'thelp but wonder whether this is going to be presented as another pre-elections "terrorist" incident aiming to promote the need for "strong and stable leadership" in the UK by the Conservative party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916
Police are responding to reports that a van has hit a number of pedestrians on London Bridge in central London.
Witnesses have said that armed officers are understood to be at the scene after a white transit van mounted the pavement before driving into people.

The Met Police say they are dealing with an incident on the bridge and "multiple resources" are in attendance.
Transport for London said the bridge has been closed in both directions due to a "major police incident".

Bus routes were being diverted and Southwark Bridge has also been shut, it added.
BBC reporter Holly Jones, who was on the bridge at the time of the incident, said the van was driven by a man and was "probably travelling at about 50 miles an hour".

About five people were being treated for injuries after the vehicle mounted the pavement and hit them, she said.
She said the van, which was travelling from the direction of central London, headed towards the south side of the river.
Ms Jones later reported seeing a man being arrested by police. She said he was handcuffed and had his shirt off.

London Ambulance Service tweeted: "Multiple resources attending an incident at #LondonBridge, please avoid the area".
 
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