Vaccines

[hlat]

That doctor persuades the mother by misleading, lecturing, and frightening her. Doctors themselves are brainwashed and believe they do good to patients, so much that they hardly see the obvious when a parent shows his/her feelings. It's particularly blatant in pediatry.

It's true. That's when knowledge and free will have to kick in, and the parent has to take a firm stand against vaccines. I know it's hard to believe, but some doctors will actually like and respect the parent more afterwards.

That's the path I went down. My wife didn't like the doctor's pressure, so I started going to the appointments instead of my wife, and after a several attempts at persuading me, the doctor stopped mentioning vaccines. The doctor ended up liking me a lot, enough that she candidly railed against transgender propaganda aimed at children.

 

[nature]

It's true. That's when knowledge and free will have to kick in, and the parent has to take a firm stand against vaccines. I know it's hard to believe, but some doctors will actually like and respect the parent more afterwards.

That's the path I went down. My wife didn't like the doctor's pressure, so I started going to the appointments instead of my wife, and after a several attempts at persuading me, the doctor stopped mentioning vaccines. The doctor ended up liking me a lot, enough that she candidly railed against transgender propaganda aimed at children.

It's less difficult to refuse, for a patient who has got knowledge. In this case, the doctor takes a step backwards if he is reasonnable. You have some of them who don't accept a patient chalenging them, and some (fortunately rare) who taunt the patient. You have chance your doctor reacted that way.

The example Agron gave is the most frequent situation; people are naturally confident in science and medecine, they believe their doctor. You can't make an informed choice if the information you're given is inaccurate. You're lucky who have knowledge. This mother didn't.

 

[Agron]

Another piece of the puzzle in war on human health. No wonder big pharma is doing as they damn please.... All funded by tax-paying citizens! Because CONgress is in service to the people right? It was bad before but a true vaccine HELL broke loose in 2011!

 

[Adobe]

The goal is not to: “not take the vax/chip” the goal is to: do the right thing in the right situation.

Thank all of you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. It has helped me a lot. Here are some thoughts.

I definitely have anger, fear, whatever you want to call it about taking the vax or a chip. But is fear and anger enough. Those could just make me stupid, and have me thrown in a FEMA camp for nothing?

I don’t have anyone counting on me for anything at this point so I would be a good candidate to be a resister. Take one for the team! At this point, I am lined up to resist. I believe my default programing is to resist the vax and the chip. But I have to dig this up, wash it off and look at it in the light, because I’m not sure I own this yet.

When Keton Cop, a friend of mine, and David Icke all at different times of course said “that’s the line in the sand… Im not taking it!” I swelled with a confidence, and a kind of pride, then I relax and felt good, thinking if I resist, I won’t be alone. Also, when someone stands with courage it can reveal your desires, and foster your own courage.

Wait ! No matter what I decide, it may change. Why? Because the goal is not to “not take the shot” or “take the shot” the goal is to abandon all fear and do the right thing at the right time. Right?

Questions to myself:

I’ve had many vaccinations in my life. All of them mandatory. So, why is this different?

I know part, maybe most of the fear of the chip comes from my religious upbringing, so how much of that is still at play in my psychology? A chip in my hand can’t sell my soul or lose my soul (not by itself anyway) I believe that scripture was monkied with to produce maximum feeding during the great harvest (basically now). But why does the chip still bother me? Do I use a bank card…yes, do pay taxes to the beast…yes…what’s wrong with going just one more step?

Do I owe the human race anything?

Many of my ancestor fought and resisted all throughout history. Do I owe them anything?

Do I owe anything to my grandchildren or everybody’s grandchildren for that matter?

Esau sold Jacob his birthright for a microchip ID marker that allowed him to eat. What about that?

If I was to take an incarnation into a human body, and was present during a time when the whole human race was being cruelly wrenched to the ground, culled, and taken off to slavery, would I just stand there and watch?

Is resistance its own form of reward?

If there had been no resistance in the past, what would the world have looked like when I was born here?

 

[Agron]

The goal is not to: “not take the vax/chip” the goal is to: do the right thing in the right situation.

Thank all of you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. It has helped me a lot. Here are some thoughts.

I definitely have anger, fear, whatever you want to call it about taking the vax or a chip. But is fear and anger enough. Those could just make me stupid, and have me thrown in a FEMA camp for nothing?

I don’t have anyone counting on me for anything at this point so I would be a good candidate to be a resister. Take one for the team! At this point, I am lined up to resist. I believe my default programing is to resist the vax and the chip. But I have to dig this up, wash it off and look at it in the light, because I’m not sure I own this yet.

When Keton Cop, a friend of mine, and David Icke all at different times of course said “that’s the line in the sand… Im not taking it!” I swelled with a confidence, and a kind of pride, then I relax and felt good, thinking if I resist, I won’t be alone. Also, when someone stands with courage it can reveal your desires, and foster your own courage.

Wait ! No matter what I decide, it may change. Why? Because the goal is not to “not take the shot” or “take the shot” the goal is to abandon all fear and do the right thing at the right time. Right?

Questions to myself:

I’ve had many vaccinations in my life. All of them mandatory. So, why is this different?

I know part, maybe most of the fear of the chip comes from my religious upbringing, so how much of that is still at play in my psychology? A chip in my hand can’t sell my soul or lose my soul (not by itself anyway) I believe that scripture was monkied with to produce maximum feeding during the great harvest (basically now). But why does the chip still bother me? Do I use a bank card…yes, do pay taxes to the beast…yes…what’s wrong with going just one more step?

Do I owe the human race anything?

Many of my ancestor fought and resisted all throughout history. Do I owe them anything?

Do I owe anything to my grandchildren or everybody’s grandchildren for that matter?

Esau sold Jacob his birthright for a microchip ID marker that allowed him to eat. What about that?

If I was to take an incarnation into a human body, and was present during a time when the whole human race was being cruelly wrenched to the ground, culled, and taken off to slavery, would I just stand there and watch?

Is resistance its own form of reward?

If there had been no resistance in the past, what would the world have looked like when I was born here?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @Adobe .

In my view the goal is to be free from outside coercion of ANY kind. Once I have really become aware of myself I decided that I will be the one to choose what path I will take through life. Isnt that the only right way?

We are born into lies and deceit and to my mind our biggest task is to free ourselves from these "chains". I also believe we are put into this enviroment to master it and make it better for ourselves and all generations that come after us. Which is a hard choice. But thats the point. After all the times I chose the easier route I percieved it was the WRONG choice for me.

In any case all we can do is act based on what we experience and what we would want to experience next, not what others are telling us we should experience. Goal for me is re-claiming my power as A human being and Im confident that this will take me where I really need to be.

So if we value life and this chance to experience it we should do everything that we can so that it is experienced through our own "free will". I also think theres MUCH more that we can experience than what we are "allowed" to experience. So thats another reason I am deciding to say no to any further forcing of anything upon my soul and body! Regardless of where it comes from, or the costs and possible hardships. And I somehow know that God will support this decision and show me the way. And that the Universe will be the reflection of my innerspace.

I will never forget the story of one exiled priest who was thrown in the dungeons for heresy where they tried to kill him with the way they "cared" for him. He was high-born and they couldnt kill him just like that. All he got was abuse, muddy water and stale bread. And he managed to live there for 15 years and eventually got out. Point being that his faith was stronger than everything they could throw at him.

Also I think we owe a debt to all others that came before us, who gave their lives so that we can learn the truth and break the chains that are forced upon us.

So the best way to go about this is to learn EVERY possible way of avoiding forced vaccines. And to STOP giving our energy to these systems of manipulation.

 

[nature]

Also I think we owe a debt to all others that came before us, who gave their lives so that we can learn the truth and break the chains that are forced upon us.
So the best way to go about this is to learn EVERY possible way of avoiding forced vaccines. And to STOP giving our energy to these systems of manipulation.

Totally agree

I will never forget the story of one exiled priest who was thrown in the dungeons for heresy where they tried to kill him with the way they "cared" for him. He was high-born and they couldnt kill him just like that. All he got was abuse, muddy water and stale bread. And he managed to live there for 15 years and eventually got out. Point being that his faith was stronger than everything they could throw at him.

Reminds me about Bradley Manning, and Judy Mikovits, to quote the most recent ones.

 

[Mari]

They quickly passed a new policy that is based on a law from a couple of years ago. And yes, it's all about mandatory vaccines. It's obviously a preparation for The Vaccine that we are all eagerly waiting for.

Here is what they plan to do:

I didn´t want to post this in Corona thread because here are some my observations and experience with dodging vaccines.

I don´t know how "fast" is bureaucracy in other countries, but in Croatia it is VERY slow. And people can exploit that in this case (at least by now).

First of all, I didn´t bring my kid to the doctors for regular examinations, you know every 3-4-5 months; they were healthy babys (more healthy than vaccinated kids as I´ve noticed from my friends) and developed just fine. Plus, we would be forced to vaccinate them or sign the paper that we don´t want to - and we didn´t want that.
There is no report from the doctor that we MUST come to this examinations in Croatia (here in Germany you get a post because government demands that you did mandatory child examinations, it was put in law because of many children neglects, but on the other hand there were no mandatory vaccinations so no big deal....). So if you don´t get a letter from government to get your kid examined - don´t go there yourself.

This is how we avoided first most critical year in child brain development not to be contaminated with vaccines.

Now, the issue with kindergartens and schools; my partner was at home so we didn´t put kids in kindergarten at early age and then we moved to Germany where there is no mandatory vaccinations.

But here is experience from my acquaintance.
As schools and kindergartens in Croatia demand proof of vaccination, she went to private doctor to vaccine her kids with the least harmful mono-vaccination on the market.
Important is that one NEVER says NO to the doctors or and official; one has to be smart and unfortunately - LIE.

So, she went to private doctor and said that she don´t want vaccine cocktails and to give her kids only this or that vaccine.
With this in vaccination book she went to sign up her kid in the kindergarten/school.
Of course there were questions where are the other vaccines.
At this point you LIE hard, like: "Well you see, there were some complications and as you can see in our vaccination book, the vaccination is in progress, but in our case it must be done in this way, bla bla bla ...." So you lie and lie and NEVER say "no" or hint that you are an anti-vaxxer.

And since bureaucracy works slooooowly in Cro, you get one-two telephone calls from school about the proof, you say "yes, yes, we are doing that, thank you for calling, I´ll bring you, bla bla" and so on and at some point they stop calling.

That more or less worked for mandatory vaccination table.... At least in her case.

Now with this convid potential vaccination, we´ll see how it rolls out and which tricks can be applied there.....

 

[Christine]

Trump the anti-Gates: "This virus will go away without a vaccine."

 

[Joan]

Well, the constitutional lawyer Alan Dershowitz was interviewed a few days ago and he waded in regarding vaccines. and basically said that the government could force vaccination of the population.

He stated you have no constitutional right to spread the disease, no constitutional right to refuse the vaccine, no constitutional right not to wear a mask. If you refuse to be vaccinated the state literally has the power to take you to a doctors office and plunge a needle in your arm if the vaccination is designed to prevent the spread of disease. If a vaccine id designed to prevent you from getting a disease and killing you. Then you have the right to refuse.

You have no right to refuse to be vaccinated against a contagious disease, the interviewer quite rightly asked, where in the constitution does it say that, his reply public health and police power. I am speechless! This comming from someone who professes to be a constitutional lawyer.

 

[hlat]

Well, the constitutional lawyer Alan Dershowitz was interviewed a few days ago and he waded in regarding vaccines. and basically said that the government could force vaccination of the population.

He stated you have no constitutional right to spread the disease, no constitutional right to refuse the vaccine, no constitutional right not to wear a mask. If you refuse to be vaccinated the state literally has the power to take you to a doctors office and plunge a needle in your arm if the vaccination is designed to prevent the spread of disease. If a vaccine id designed to prevent you from getting a disease and killing you. Then you have the right to refuse.

You have no right to refuse to be vaccinated against a contagious disease, the interviewer quite rightly asked, where in the constitution does it say that, his reply public health and police power. I am speechless! This comming from someone who professes to be a constitutional lawyer.

He's a clown and I wouldn't listen to that clown. We're going to need a favorable state or federal Supreme Court ruling. I'm not sure what's left with freedom of religion, right to privacy, right to one's own body. There's still some lip service to freedom of religion. Example Horvath, 5th Circuit, No. 18-51011, January 9, 2020.

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/18/18-51011-CV0.pdf

While Horvath has a constitutional right to exercise his religion by refusing the TDAP vaccine because it conflicts with his sincerely held religious beliefs, he is able to exercise his religious beliefs while working for the City—either by remaining a firefighter and wearing a respirator or working as a code enforcement officer. We agree with the district court that the respirator proposal did not violate Horvath’s right to freely exercise his religion—instead, it would have enabled him to freely exercise his religion while maintaining his current job.

The dissent also claims there are fact disputes as to whether the proposed respirator accommodation forces Horvath to make an “untenable choice” between sacrificing his faith or working under unequal conditions. A brief review of the cases relied on by the dissent reveals that they are inapposite. In both Sherbert and Hobby Lobby, the plaintiffs were forced to choose between compromising their religious beliefs and facing serious consequences—in Sherbert, foregoing unemployment compensation benefits; and in Hobby Lobby, forfeiting hundreds of millions of dollars a year by continuing to offer healthcare plans to employees without contraceptive coverage, or facing a competitive disadvantage in attracting skilled workers by dropping insurance coverage altogether. Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc., 573 U.S. 682, 723 (2014); Sherbert, 374 U.S.398, 400, 404-05 (1963). Here, Horvath was not faced with such an “untenable choice”—in lieu of getting a vaccine, Horvath could remain a firefighter and wear a respirator throughout his shift or become a code enforcement officer and maintain the same pay and benefits as his current position. We have already determined that the code enforcement position was a reasonable accommodation, and Horvath does not argue that this accommodation violates his free exercise rights. Moreover, the plaintiffs in the cases cited by the dissent challenged the policy that infringed on their free exercise rights; here, Horvath challenges not the City’s general vaccine requirement that would require him to violate a sincerely held religious belief, but one of two accommodations the City proposed so that Horvath could avoid such a dilemma. Simply put, Horvath was not forced to choose between compromising his religious beliefs and “pay[ing] a very heavy price.” Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc., 573 U.S. at 691.

 

[Arwenn]

Just some of my musings wrt the vaccine issue. I know that Big pHarma can’t be sued for their vaccines, and it seems that govts. are slowly chipping away at the exemptions available to us. But doctors can be sued, so would asking them to sign a certificate making them responsible for any adverse effects be a possible option? (I think I saw something to that in effect, in a post on the CV thread). Maybe that might make them pause before jabbing everyone? I’m not a lawyer but there has to be some other recourse other than the BS vaccine injury courts. I mean, ideally we want an option to decline having it, but I can see it being mandatory for some professions, so how to get out of that is indeed the question.

 

[Kay Kim]

Hello Arwenn,

I have a copy of Zzartemis’s post about how to make forced vaccination legally to protect oneself from the Doctors. But I am not sure this one is the one you are looking for.

NOTICE: REFUSAL OF VACCINE FOR CAUSE
I do not know what is in your vaccine.
I do not believe your vaccine is safe.
I know that many vaccines have been found to contain toxic adjuvants and toxic foreign materials.
I know that toxic contamination is present in vaccines which are easily preventable with current
technology. This suggests intentional contamination of vaccines with toxic agents.
I know that many vaccines are not effective and actually cause the ailment they are purported to
mitigate.
I know that adjuvants are put into vaccines to “shock” the immune system into extreme response, and
that causes biological “crisis”, stress and damage to the immune system, the blood and the whole body.
I know that vaccine death and injury statistics and information are suppressed by media which receives
billions of dollars in pharma advertising annually.
I know that vaccine death and injury statistics and information are suppressed by government in which
pharmaceutical regulatory agencies are largely run and controlled by pharma industry executives,
loyalists and lobbyists.
I know that vaccines kill hundreds of thousands of people per year.
I am aware of reports that vaccine experiments have caused tens of thousands of cases of polio and
other diseases and injuries in India, Asia, Africa, The Philippines and many other locations.
I know that vaccines are so hazardous that the vaccine industry lobbied for, and received immunity
from the harm vaccines are causing.
I know that taxpayers have paid billions of dollars to families who's members were injured or killed by
vaccines.
I do not trust the vaccine industry, government agencies or international agencies which seem to be
acting on behalf of vaccine sales and promotion and suppressing information of vaccine hazards.
I know that most vaccines have not been tested or proven safe.
I know that under current law all physicians and healthcare workers must have my consent to
administer medicine to me. My consent is hereby denied and refused.
I know that if someone is not a doctor, such as an elected official or bureaucrat, they may not
administer medicine at all, much less “mandate” medical treatments for the general population.
I know it is possible to mitigate and control all contagious diseases with safer and more effective means
than vaccination.
Anyone who claims privilege to inject materials in my body without my consent is my enemy and is
criminal.
I will treat anyone who threatens to violate my body as a criminal assailant.
No, you may not vaccinate me or my children. If you try, I will exercise my right to self defense
against you and your accomplices to any extent I deem necessary to protect ourselves.
Forced vaccination is not authorized or permitted under Law. If there is a code or statutory “mandate”
for forced medication, it is unconstitutional, unlawful and unenforceable.
You may not attempt or threaten non-consensual vaccination, and if you do, you will be dealt with in a
manner to restore rule of law, justice and to protect our right to personal physical security.
Your ignorance of vaccine hazards and medical rights and your inability to understand the facts above
do not give you any immunity or any license to commit the crime of forced non-consensual medication.
Can you name every ingredient of your vaccine? Presumably not.
Can you predict the physical effects of each of those ingredients? No.
Can you predict the consequences of combining those ingredients? No.
Have you offered to personally take full responsibility to pay for any harm your vaccine causes? No.
Therefore you do not have the slightest authority or privilege to forcibly administer vaccines.

--------------

:Responsibility For Vaccination
I herewith acknowledge that I _
(name of health care provider) have recommended or administered
(name of the vaccine) ___
to (name of the recipient) ___.
I have read the scientific literature available on this vaccine
(vaccines), I have assured the patient or parent the product is safe,
and I am aware Federal legislation protects vaccine manufacturers
from legal action in the event of a serious complication.
To demonstrate my faith in the safety of this product, I herewith
accept full financial and legal responsibility for any harm or
complication that results from the administration of this product.
Date:_

Name of person who recommend or administers the vaccine:
Print name:_ Signature:__

Witnessed:
Print name:__ Signature:__
Print name :___. Signature

 

[Voyageur]

But doctors can be sued, so would asking them to sign a certificate making them responsible for any adverse effects be a possible option? (I think I saw something to that in effect, in a post on the CV thread).

There was this old 'Warranty' here on the forum from 2009, and in the years ahead the legal health drafters in many provinces and states have been creative in covering against peoples refusal actions. Who would sign, and would they sign knowing or thinking they would not personally be on the hook (of course by that time it would be too late for the then vaccinated)? If they were principled, they would not sign.

It might indeed be a good thing to help educated ones children about should they be coerced into vaccines, such as against HPV in the school systems office when their parents are not around. It might at least open up their eyes regardless if a steady stream of 'informed' children and adults confronted the vaccinators with a legal warranty document.

Wonder if anyone has ever tried with a form like this?

 

[Arwenn]

Hello Arwenn,

I have a copy of Zzartemis’s post about how to make forced vaccination legally to protect oneself from the Doctors. But I am not sure this one is the one you are looking for.

Thanks @Kay Kim, that is indeed what I was referring to. I’m not sure about the legalities involved with getting a doctor to sign something to this effect (I highly doubt any would). I guess the idea is to be able to get an exemption from any/all vaccines in the first place. I’m sure it depends on each country’s specific constitutional laws, there may even be some recourse with human rights laws on an international level. I dunno. It’s not my area of expertise at all. If there are any lawyers on the forum, their insights would be much appreciated.

It might indeed be a good thing to help educated ones children about should they be coerced into vaccines, such as against HPV in the school systems office when their parents are not around.

I think that’s a very good idea @Voyageur. The transgender movement has been trying to veto parental rights and thereby allowing kids to make life changing decisions on their own sans parental consent. School vaccinations could follow similarly. So educating kids and making them aware of the dangers is important, in case the school tries to circumvent parental consent.

 

[nature]

Hi Arwenn! Interesting question!
I'll respond from my doctor POV, and in the shoes of a conventional doctor believing I practice the "good" science (the conventional way, as it was my case before I discover truth thanks to you all

If a patients aks me (me= ancient I) to sign such a document, yes I'll sign, because I'll really believe the vaccine is protective and without serious side effect. So I sign. Will you still be ok to receive the vaccine shot?
Lest's say you receive this shot and you have a serious complication like neurologic disease. You'll sue me. If you win the trial, will you really win? No, because, this will not change vaccination policies. And because this will not give your health back. And because I'll continue vaccinating, reassuring myself that there is exceptional cases. I'll sincerely be sorry for you, but will still believe I've done my duty (my blinded confidence in science).
Guess what? When there is a serious complication to a patient (from whatever drug, not only vaccines, or from whatever technical procedure), we don't say it our fault, we say it's the patient's fault: it's because he/she had a predisposition, an underlying condition that makes him/her exposed to complication. This is what we are taught.

Another point: a doctor could still sign, even under the patient's pressure because in front of the law, he has the duty to give to the patient the recommended treatment. If vaccination is mandatory, he must do it. If you have a complication, he will not be responsible because he follows the law. So, your signed document will have no legal value.

So, you can still try to discourage the doctor by asking him to sign such paper. In the best case, he will only begin to have some doubts, but he will remain not responsible in frony of the Law if he still impose the vaccine shot.
Doctors who refused to give vaccine, or who have helped patient by giving false vaccine certificate have been sued by Justice and banned from practicing (in France, by the the Medical Order Council).

That doesn't mean you must do nothing, that you must accept vaccination.
I just give you some elements, so that you can explore other ways. The idea of making him sign a responsability document is good, but you musn't rely only on it.
Hope this helps.