visibility of the 4th density

[ana]

[...] what precisely defines a machine is its impulsivity, that acts based on identification with negative emotions, that does not take into account the consequences of its actions... [...]

I think it would be fully correct to say that impulsiveness implies mechanicality, and that what you say applies in this direction; however, there are many kinds of machines, and restraint and control (including emotional control) can be equally mechanical. The chief thing that is missing in a machine is conscious mastery of the self, OSIT; impulsive or not, whatever patterns mechanicality takes, anyone who lacks this is mechanical.

That's true, thank you :)

 

[Bluestar]

Having come to a conclusion that it is not the actions that count, but the reactions, now am rethinking this whole concept from another perspective.

Remembering my school days, I used to wonder what the advanced grades were like. Could never have imagined what I was to learn in the future. This is what I feel about 4D. I just don't know. Working hard to figure this 3D school.

Regarding animals and how most humans believe them to be inferior. They do have traits that we could not possibly get unless we were some kind of animal or critter whisperer. Having watched critters as Guardian has and noticed communication and what appears to be thought process, sometimes I think they have it all down better then we humans do. The flow with their environment is balanced way more then humans. Whether through instinct or not.

Once watched a group of ants working a tree. Grains of wood were coming from above, inside the tree. A group of workers were waiting at the entrance (where I was watching) for these grains and then would pick them up and walk over to the edge and dump the grains below. Most of them would walk to the same place and dump the grain, thinking it was the edge of the entrance, they created a small pile that was clogging up the area and would impede in the future the entrance to the colony. Except one. He/she would walk all the way to edge and drop the grain. Moving up and down the ridges of the wood. I thought at the time that some of the ants were to lazy to walk to the edge fully and just this one ant figured it out and made the effort to complete the task. Watched for twenty minutes or so. Now I contemplate if this lone ant was more aware of the task at hand. Realizing that if he put in the effort now, that he would not have to retrace the steps taken to get all the grains out of the way of the entrance. All those other ants will have to eventually remove the blocking grains. Does this relate to the work we do here. Making the extra efforts now so we will not have to redo the original work later? Or was the lone ant in a position to see the edge from where he was and the others were not? Was it instinct that moved them? This was many years ago and I think back to that often. Especially in places like Grand Central Station in NYC where everyone seems like they are moving like a colony of ants or some other type of insect colony.

Everywhere we look we can learn something. This is the amazing part of this great BBM.

 

[Cosmos]

Let me tell you a metaphor that I asked myself:

Just imagine you stand in front of an ant, now imagine you are the ant.
What do you see (with the eyes of this ant) of that giant human body in front of you?

Or ask your self: you see a chicken or lets say pig in a farm, what do they know about us, or about why they are where they are? (Are they conscious about why they are there? Or who we are, or what we do with them?)

 

[Bluestar]

Just imagine you stand in front of an ant, now imagine you are the ant.
What do you see (with the eyes of this ant) of that giant human body in front of you?

There was a Deep Space Nine episode where an archaeologist went to study a planet that was very dangerous because those that dared go there were never heard from again. When she went to study from above the planet a huge energy force disabled her ship to where she could not even call for help. Another person on DS9 knew of her where abouts and what caused the sudden burst of energy. So he went after her to rescue her. (long story short) She asked him what caused all of this and he said...
That a superior being that was so large that we could not even see them, nor they see us, inhabited this region of space. It was one of their ships passing by her ship that caused the total energy failure of her ship. They did not mean to cause any harm to her for they did not even know she was there. Kind of like when we may walk on the grass and we do not even know that we may be killing 100 nematodes under our feet or something to the extent. Did we mean to do it...?


I do believe that animals know when they are about to be slaughtered. My husband when growing up was sent to a family farm to help with such a thing. His responsibility at a young age of about thirteen was to hit the cow square in the head to knock her out so she would not know that she was about to be killed and the adrenalin that was not produced, due to this fact was therefore not in her meat. He hated the job, but understood it's purpose.

Nothing wants to be food for another. Not the grasshopper in the clutches of a spiders bite or a tadpole in a fishes mouth. Yet the grasshopper is a predator and so is the tadpole when it eats larvae. Everything seems to be food for something else. Critters do feel danger.

 

[Bluestar]

I am glad that you brought this up. How are you sure that this is not a part of a defamation campaign against Carlos Castaneda and the manipulation of a disappointed and sad wife by the conductors of this campaign ?

Because I am speaking about my personal experience with the "Clan" (which is what they called themselves at the time) when I had the audacity to speak out against their great guru at an event called "Starwood" in NY. As I recall, the ex-dead one was particularly vicious when I found evidence of the fact that she'd been in rehab...not dead.

I know a Pagan scam when I see one, and that's what I saw them running....for cash of course.

I have been to Starwood :D

 

[Cosmos]

Quote from Bluestar:"Kind of like when we may walk on the grass and we do not even know that we may be killing 100 nematodes under our feet or something to the extent. Did we mean to do it...?"

Yes that is the same thing that I thought of since I was a child !!!!

We all kill beings with almost everything, we do? (we do not meant to, but those who are conscious about it what should they do? (Kill theirselves that they don't kill others?)
is it maybe a natural process of everything?

 

[Bluestar]

Quote from Bluestar:"Kind of like when we may walk on the grass and we do not even know that we may be killing 100 nematodes under our feet or something to the extent. Did we mean to do it...?"

Yes that is the same thing that I thought of since I was a child !!!!

We all kill beings with almost everything, we do? (we do not meant to, but those who are conscious about it what should they do? (Kill theirselves that they don't kill others?)
is it maybe a natural process of everything?

Here on this planet I believe we can do nothing. One can be an ascetic (?) and sweep the ground before one walks on it, but we can not avoid everything. So what I do is honor those things that maybe found in my line of fire. From what I eat to what may perish at my foot. Gratitude for the role that they play on this planet and pray that they find their way to the other side in peace. Honor, respect and gratitude. What more can we offer at the present time?

 

[Nawd]

Also consider that we are one of many animals walking and perhaps killing the insects at our feet. Beautiful birds of prey glide down and grab lovely green frogs, cute baby rabbits and smaller birds. This is the way it is, and it is beautiful in it's own way.

IMO

Quote from Bluestar:"Kind of like when we may walk on the grass and we do not even know that we may be killing 100 nematodes under our feet or something to the extent. Did we mean to do it...?"

Yes that is the same thing that I thought of since I was a child !!!!

We all kill beings with almost everything, we do? (we do not meant to, but those who are conscious about it what should they do? (Kill theirselves that they don't kill others?)
is it maybe a natural process of everything?

Here on this planet I believe we can do nothing. One can be an ascetic (?) and sweep the ground before one walks on it, but we can not avoid everything. So what I do is honor those things that maybe found in my line of fire. From what I eat to what may perish at my foot. Gratitude for the role that they play on this planet and pray that they find their way to the other side in peace. Honor, respect and gratitude. What more can we offer at the present time?

 

[Skipling]

Hi Dawn. I suppose what you describe can be interpreted as beautiful, but in many ways I see it as terrifying. I used to say to my friends that this is a vampire planet, because everything feeds on life in order to continue to exist. This was part of the terror of the situation for me. I used to think of this when eating meat in particular, causing me to go veggie for a while. this was quite probably a program too. It also reminds me of the saying of grace before meals in school, although of course I never really considered the meaning of that gratitude in those days, or maybe on some level I did. That deep subconscious awareness is what I'll wager led so many of us to Sott in the first place, because nothing we discovered anywhere else satisfied, it never resonated, rang true.

For my part, only very recently have I gone back to considering what 4th density existence would be like, and quite frankly it scared me; yes, in the very same way that moving to secondary school (high school) did back in my younger days. I cannot really be bothered to contemplate it now as there are far too many issues of concern to me both internally and externally here as we are on 3rd level.

I am finally beginning to grasp the fact of the matter, that we are reaction machines, that is the default human state. I think I've been scared of facing up to this one for quite some time. Denial of the truth is oh so common, even if we feel it, hear it, deep within us. Typical ego, it was so easy to observe this in others, but in my lofty solitude I thought I knew so much more. Self-acknowledgement as self-acceptance, I suppose. But of course there remains the potential to become so much more self aware; to know, care, and cleanse, and that is what drives me on.

 

[Harold]

The concept of variable physicality, (excuse me but I love power tools) makes me think of the difference between a power tool that has variable speed vs. one static speed. Variable speed rocks! It allows you to cause less damage on what your 'working' on. One can do better 'work'....hmmm.... but you can accidentally hit the trigger too hard and make a mess of things too. Sound familiar?

What does this have to do with 4d? ummm... ... well you can go fast or slow, by adjusting the.... vibe? Sounds similar to quantum reality. The move to 4d is about a vibe change in part. It fits in with applied knowledge. You learn that there is a variable speed adjustment, (back to power tools again )where the variable speed adjustment is, then you can try it out!

Something to consider.....

With animals... as I get it, they cannot act or think laterally/abstractly, and therefor they cannot develop concepts. They are linear as in 'it's time to eat, I'm hungry' and so fourth. But their time to eat is not based on the human concept of time but more in tune with the cycles of nature. Bear's hibernate during winter, and hunt salmon during spring. Subtle ques in nature appear to bring on different animal behaviors.

It reminds me of an old cartoon, 'Looney Tunes', the sheep dog and the wolf , are friends on the way to 'work', they punch in at the 'time' clock, and then it is time for the wolf to prey upon the sheep, and it is time for the sheep dog to stop the wolf from getting any sheep. At the end of their 'shift', they go back to being friends. Its what they do. It's their nature. And here I thought watching the idiot box was waste of 'time'.

 

[walkingon]

There is nothing you can do which will verify the concept of 4th density. To think that you are a candidate for such a density above the resit is egotism... and is nothing realistic

 

[Nienna]

There is nothing you can do which will verify the concept of 4th density. To think that you are a candidate for such a density above the resit is egotism... and is nothing realistic

I'm curious walkingon, if you seem to dislike this site and its understandings, why are you here? To "teach" us all about our "erroneous" ways? The problem is that with your very first post, you have shown your hand and what you really are about. No one here is going to take you seriously. Really.

Tell me, what is wrong with people actually trying to better themselves through self-observation and working on themselves and to see things in an objective manner? If the premises of what this forum was built around is not to your liking, then finding a forum that is better suited to you would be a good way to go.

 

[truth seeker]

A quote from Laura:

Just to repeat what I wrote in another thread where Walkingon posted:

the fact that you characterize my words as "broad generalizations" and "manipulative language" shows that you are delusional....

No, you are attempting to "create reality" according to your own agenda. From "Beyond Insanity" by Amos Gunsberg:

EVIDENCE OF HUMANOID BEHAVIOR

They make pronouncements without substantiation. To them, these pronouncements represent what reality is . . . pronouncement by pronouncement. The present pronouncement may contradict what they said a moment ago. This means nothing to them. They make no attempt to deal with the contradiction.

They demonstrate a total lack of understanding what we mean by a "fact." In their writings and in their speech, they do not use that word.

We humans find this hard to believe. The use of facts is such a basic part of our lives. We base our conclusions and our actions on them. We go on from there to test things and establish more facts. When we debate, we present facts, and show how we derive our observations and our positions from them.

Without facts, all we have is what we call "fantasy."

Since these creatures have a human appearance, we assume they must think like us . . . be aware of what we are aware. We think they MUST know what facts are. When they don't address the facts, we say they are playing a game. We think they do know what the facts are, but don't want to admit it.

Not so! They DON'T know what a fact is. When we speak of facts and ask them to address the facts, they look at us with vacant eyes. They don't know what we're talking about.

They study us because their strategy is to pass as human. They hear us use the words -- facts, evidence, substantiation. They lack the human capacity to understand what we mean. What they do is ignore our reference to facts, ignore our requests for them to supply facts, and hope we won't notice it's due to their lack of comprehension. {...}

I asked a psychotherapy client to look at a chair which was situated about six feet away near a wall. I then asked her to describe the chair. She did, in rather complete detail, except for the legs. THE CHAIR SHE DESCRIBED HAD NO LEGS!

I pointed this out, and asked how the chair could be suspended in air, with no legs to support it. She said: "I put it there." I asked: "If you look away, will it fall to the floor?" She said: "No. If I look away, the chair is no longer there." I asked: "If you look away . . . and it turns out the chair is still there?" She ignored the question. {...}

Nothing of what we call reality is REAL to them.

When a human being mentions a chair, the reference is to a chair that sits there on its own legs. It's there whether anyone sees it or not, whether anyone mentions it or not, whether anyone "declares" it to be there or not. It's there ON ITS OWN.

A basic element in the profile of humanoids is their lack of comprehension that anything exists on its own, separate from their say-so. They don't SEE it. The only objects humanoids see are the ones they "declare" . . . the ones they imagine.

We use the phrase "my perception" to mean an appraisal, a measurement of something separate from ourselves. We don't announce it as "fact." We are open to consider other views if given facts to consider.

Humanoids use the phrase "my perception" as a buzz word. They imagine what they choose, and tell us it is their "perception" . . . which, in their minds, ESTABLISHES reality. What we call "facts" do not exist for them. That's why they whine and claim they are being attacked whenever substantiation is requested.

Humanoids claim their statements are valid simply because they make them!!! They elaborate on this: "I honor integrity in this regard. As an egoist, I make statements which are valid to me. Validity to my 'self' comes first. I grant other people this same respect assuming they say things valid to themselves."

Among human beings, for something to be deemed valid it has to be substantiated with facts. Nothing is valid simply because someone says it.

When humanoids are asked how they determine what someone says is valid to that person, and not something made up or imagined, they ignore the question.

Note the strange use of the word "integrity." Humans define integrity as uprightness of character; probity; honesty. We refer to sticking to the facts, sticking to the truth, not selling out. Humanoids use "integrity" to mean insisting what they imagine is what's real. No measurement. No evaluation.

When the demand is made for their pronouncements to be evaluated, they claim the confronter is the one who has no integrity . . . meaning the confronter is not upholding THEIR position: what THEY imagine is what's real.

On what basis do they claim this? Humanoids treat the world as if it were their own private holodeck. They "declare" things into being. Everything is a hologram. They program the holograms. They interact with them in any way they choose. They have them under total control. When they decide to cancel a hologram, it vanishes.

A hologram is a hologram is a hologram. A hologram is not supposed to have the ability to think for itself. A hologram is not supposed to have the ability to measure, evaluate, appraise, etc. Most importantly, a hologram is not supposed to be able to break out of its holographic state and critique its master.

When this does happen, they first chastise it to bring it back into line. If that doesn't work, they "vanish" it. When that fails, they run for cover by abandoning the program and calling up another one.

Experience has shown no matter what we say, no matter what we point out, no matter how much evidence is given, it has no meaning for these creatures. They have one goal: to fool us into classifying them as human so they can concentrate on murdering our human values. Without human values, the next step is murdering human beings.

Lobaczewski was obliged to create words to describe aspects of Evil that, with which, up to then, our natuaral language could not deal adequately. He writes in his book Political Ponerology:

Para-moralisms: The conviction that moral values exist and that some actions violate moral rules is so common and ancient a phenomenon that it seems to have some substratum at man’s instinctive endowment level (although it is certainly not totally adequate for moral truth), and that it does not only represent centuries’ worth of experience, culture, religion, and socialization. Thus, any insinuation closed in moral slogans is always suggestive, even if the “moral” criteria used are just an “ad hoc” invention. Any act can thus be proved to be immoral or morally proper by means of such para-moralisms through active suggestion, and people whose minds will succumb to such reasoning can always be found. In searching for an example of an evil act whose negative value would not elicit doubt in any social situation, ethics scholars frequently mention child abuse. However, psychologists often meet with para-moral affirmations of such behavior in their practice, such as in the above-mentioned family with the prefrontal field damage in the eldest sister. Her younger brothers emphatically insisted that their sister’s sadistic treatment of her son was due to her exceptionally high moral qualifications, and they believed this by auto-suggestion. Para-moralism somehow cunningly evades the control of our common sense, sometimes leading to an affirmation of behavior whose character is openly pathological. Para-moralistic statements and suggestions so often accompany various kinds of evil that they seem quite irreplaceable. Unfortunately, it has become a frequent phenomenon for individuals, oppressive groups, or patho-political systems to invent ever-new moral criteria for someone’s convenience. Such suggestions often partially deprive people of their moral reasoning and deform its development in youngsters. Para-moralism factories have been founded worldwide, and a ponerologist finds it hard to believe that they are managed by psychologically normal people. The conversive features in the genesis of para-moralisms seem to prove they are derived from mostly subconscious rejection (and repression from the field of consciousness) of something completely different, which we call the voice of conscience. A ponerologist can nevertheless indicate many observations supporting the opinion that the various pathological factors participate in the tendency to use para-moralisms. This was the case in the above-mentioned family. As occurs with a moralizing interpretation, this tendency intensifies in egotists and hysterics, and its causes are similar. Like all conversive phenomena, the tendency to use para-moralisms is psychologically contagious. That explains why we observe it among people raised by individuals in whom it was developed alongside pathological factors. This may be a good place to reflect that true moral law is born and exists independently of our judgments in this regard, and even of our ability to recognize it. Thus, the attitude required for such understanding is scientific, not creative: we must humbly subordinate our mind to the apprehended reality. That is when we discover the truth about man, both his weaknesses and values, which shows us what is decent and proper with respect to other people and other societies.

Gurdjieff speaks of a certain example of "paramoralism" in the following extract from In Search of The Miraculous, by P.D. Ouspensky:

"As I have already said, people very often think that if they begin to struggle with considering within themselves it will make them 'insincere' and they are afraid of this because they think that in this event they will be losing something, losing a part of themselves. In this case the same thing takes place as in attempts to struggle against the outward expression of unpleasant emotions. The sole difference is that in one case a man struggles with the outward expression of emotions and in the other case with an inner manifestation of perhaps the same emotions. "This fear of losing sincerity is of course self-deception, one of those formulas of lying upon which human weaknesses are based. Man cannot help identifying and considering inwardly and he cannot help expressing his unpleasant emotions, simply because he is weak. Identifying, considering, the expressing of unpleasant emotions, are manifestations of his weakness, his impotence, his inability to control himself. But not wishing to acknowledge this weakness to himself, he calls it 'sincerity' or 'honesty' and he tells himself that he does not want to struggle against sincerity, whereas in fact he is unable to struggle against his weaknesses. "Sincerity and honesty are in reality something quite different. What a man calls 'sincerity' in this case is in reality simply being unwilling to restrain himself. And deep down inside him a man is aware of this. But he lies to himself when he says that he does not want to lose sincerity."

Lobaczewski relates certain other psychological deficits to paramoralism:

Reversive blockade: Emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth, this blocks the average person’s mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the “golden mean” between the truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this was precisely the intent of the person who subjected them to this method. If such a statement is the opposite of a moral truth, at the same time, it simultaneously represents an extreme paramoralism, and bears its peculiar suggestiveness. We rarely see this method being used by normal people; even if raised by the people who abused it; they usually only indicate its results [on their thinking] in the shape of characteristic difficulties in apprehending reality properly. Use of this method can be included within the above-mentioned psychological knowledge developed by psychopaths concerning the weaknesses of human nature and the art of leading others into error. Where they are in rule, this method is used with virtuosity, and to an extent conterminous with their power.

 

[Mountain Crown]

In case anyone is missed it, walkingon was banned earlier today

 

[wanderer33]

Some people say that animals don't see us or see us in an unclear way, what do they mean by that? Animal senses are not human senses and the picture of reality they build is different from our picture of reality in a myriad of ways, each different from another. Humans have an adequate perception of light, a poor sense of smell and poor hearing. All of the senses from instant to instant draw our picture of reality. Many animals have particular senses which are comparatively more sensitive than ours which would present them with a certain heightened view of a reality which we would not understand.

It never fails to amaze me how egoistic humans are regarding their place on this earth. Everything we know or think confirms it of course. Look at the trouble it has got us into ecologically. Yet it will persist. It is really unfortunate that the idea of service to others does not include other lifeforms.