visibility of the 4th density

Based on my reading, namely William Patrick Patterson's book on Castaneda, I would have to agree with Guardian that Castaneda was a predator. He treated "his" women like dirt, created a domineering and cultish environment. Pretty disturbing stuff. We discussed it here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8488.0
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Based on my reading, namely William Patrick Patterson's book on Castaneda, I would have to agree with Guardian that Castaneda was a predator. He treated "his" women like dirt, created a domineering and cultish environment. Pretty disturbing stuff.

Yeah, and some of "his" women got VERY nasty if you pointed that out. Carlos took an eternal truth that EVERY culture has its own legend explaining ....ie: big bad meanies diddled human DNA to make their lunch (us) more tasty, and turned it into his own personal vehicle to a life of sex, drugs and rock and roll.

We discussed it here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8488.0

LOL...I should have known. That's what I love about this forum...it's like a sacred cow barbecue :D
 
un chien anadolu said:
Here is a BBC documentary which is a part of the same campaign IMO :

_http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8575648331106173390#

Maybe someone should tell them that one of the alleged "dead" women "Carol Tiggs" aka Kathy Pohlman, is alive and well and president of "Cleargreen, inc." I'm willing to bet that Gina and MaryAnn are still around too...using who knows what names.

Carol/Kathy was the one who claimed to have come back from the dead before...which evidently sounded a lot better to followers than 'I was in rehab" :shock:


_http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8YRIhWNVyl4J:www.cleargreen.com/english/updates/directors_board.pdf+%22Renata+Murez%22+Cleargreen+Inc&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjbadn4F5QzCVJs5qG3qsUr426ynEYjZa5DZYhWPfucN9xWHKXzfJkBTmHNReHRrVr_rjhlo29nDWCStbM9NvDgKjVCQMDU2WsGpowpJP7RGEVsVFa4bEIjA9JPHqsscy_1IoOW&sig=AHIEtbSjnm6OdPW-wP-OrHl4BH9TwJBn8A
 
Guardian said:
By "predator" I meant a spiritual guru who made it a habit of convincing younger women that having sex with him was the key to their spirtual enlightenment.

I know a Pagan scam when I see one, and that's what I saw them* running....for cash of course.

……I have serious doubts that the Norse nannies are dead. I strongly suspect they are hiding somewhere spending Carlos' millions.

It looks like the “predator’s ball” with the “younger women” not so innocent after all.
Perhaps, they deserved each other, after all “birds of a feather…”.

*my italics
 
go2 said:
It looks like the “predator’s ball” with the “younger women” not so innocent after all.

The young one (who's really dead) was about as innocent as a clueless teenager can be when Carlos adopted her, then married her.
His so called "Guardian Witches" haven't been "innocent" in millennium.
 
Freelancer said:
Okiron, I don't understand why this confuses you. If the fourth density is represented by four spatial dimensions, then an observer would actually be able to perceive a three dimensional object both from inside and outside simultaneously.

Hello Freelancer,

I'm not questioning whether or not 4Th density/dimension are able to observe us (3D) inwardly as well as outwardly simultaneously. What befuddles me more, IS 3rd density/dimension, and me (us?) trying to fathom what it must be like in 4D, for me it only makes 3D that much un-known-able... well, at least it is for me. Can you imagine a dimension where sounds makes colors or colors that have particular taste??? (read that somewhere in the C's transcript..sorry don't have the particular date).


Freelancer said:
Think of a two dimensional example:

When you look from a three dimensional standpoint at a two-dimensional figure, like a square, for example, you simultaneously see what is inside and outside it. Granted, the observer would have to be outside the square's plane for this to work.
Same would work for 4D to 3D.
When you add "Density" to those Dimensions it's no longer simple, osit.


I just think there's so much more we (3D) have yet to encounter, all there is to be aware of in 3D. (not to sound like word salad but it's short and I'm not good at explaining things in details). Shoot! If, I'm suppose to have graduated from 1-2D, than why can't I "know" them? "Guardian" to me, she/he seems to display some of that knowingness/awareness than I, osit. Does graduating to 4D imply learning all the lessons of 3D, excludes or does it accommadate 1D,2D as well?
okiron



As for the question why we can't see the 4D objects and beings, there is a reference from the RA material about this:

Questioner: Is an entity in the fourth density normally invisible to us?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of the word “normal” is one which befuddles the meaning of the question. Let us rephrase for clarity. The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.


Even though we can't perceive four spatial dimensions (at least, not yet), there is a possibility that we could see projections of 4D objects, if they happen to intersect with our space (kind of like their shadows), but perhaps that reference from the RA material explains why we don't see them either.

Edit=Quotes
 
okiron said:
Hello Freelancer,

I'm not questioning whether or not 4Th density/dimension are able to observe us (3D) inwardly as well as outwardly simultaneously. What befuddles me more, IS 3rd density/dimension, and me (us?) trying to fathom what it must be like in 4D, for me it only makes 3D that much un-known-able... well, at least it is for me. Can you imagine a dimension where sounds makes colors or colors that have particular taste??? (read that somewhere in the C's transcript..sorry don't have the particular date).

All right then, I misunderstood your post.
Yes, I remember these references about 4th density as well, they can be found in some other sources too. I agree that such properties, like hearing or tasting colors (etc.), or seeing sounds are befuddling, but it's only because we don't have the perceptive abilities to experience such things.

However, the C's have repeated many times that we should concentrate on the lessons of our current 3rd density, and allow things to progress naturally.
In short, we can't understand what it's like in 4D until we get there.
We can only deduce (or discover) some of it's properties while we're here in 3D.
I don't think that 3D is less knowable because 4D has some "strange" properties that we can't yet understand.

okiron said:
I just think there's so much more we (3D) have yet to encounter, all there is to be aware of in 3D. (not to sound like word salad but it's short and I'm not good at explaining things in details). Shoot!

Edit=Quotes

Perhaps you found a source of inspiration in that strangeness?
Just knowing that there exists so much more than you perceive is a great motivator. It works for me.

If, I'm suppose to have graduated from 1-2D, than why can't I "know" them? "Guardian" to me, she/he seems to display some of that knowingness/awareness than I, osit. of that knowingness/awareness than I, osit. Does graduating to 4D imply learning all the lessons of 3D, excludes or does it accommadate 1D,2D as well?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. What do you mean by "know" 1D or 2D? You're supposed to be done with these lessons, so you should already know them, if I understand you correctly.
And so it works for graduation to 4D:

Session 960629

Q: (L) The nonballoon is when the balloon switches off - but it does it so fast you are not aware of it - like a pulsation...? I mean, I am desperate here!
A: You see, my dear, when you arrive at 4th density, then you will see.
Q: (L) Well, how in the heck am I supposed to get there if I can't "get it?"
A: Who says you have to "get it" before you get there?
Q: (L) Well, that leads back to: what is the wave going to do to expand this awareness? Because, if the wave is what "gets you there," what makes this so?
A: No. It is like this: After you have completed all your lessons in "third grade," where do you go?
Q: (L) So, it is a question of...
A: Answer, please.
Q: (L) You go to fourth grade.
A: Okay, now, do you have to already be in 4th grade in order to be allowed to go there? Answer.
Q: (L) No. But you have to know all the 3rd density things...
A: Yes. More apropos: you have to have learned all of the lessons.

Q: (L) What kind of lessons are we talking about here?
A: Karmic and simple understandings.
Q: (L) What are the key elements of these understandings, and are they fairly universal?
A: They are universal.
Q: (L) What are they?
A: We cannot tell you that.

That session explains a lot.
 
Hi Guardian,

I don't know if I can help you or not, but thought I'd give it a try. :)

Guardian said:
??????
Our external world certainly controls what happens to us externally, and our external world can/does affect how we choose to apply our will, but if our regular internal states were actually controlled by external stuff...that would be TERRIBLE!!

Remember the duck suit and chaining yourself to a bulldozer?

We are controlled by the external forces outside of us because we do not "act", but "react" to external stimuli. We are only machines that run the programs we have been indoctrinated with from birth. None of it is the "real" I. Until we can see things objectively and then "act" on what we see, we are only "reacting" to what happens to us.

I seem to remember you saying a few times that you have said things and then wished later that you hadn't said them. Well, at least not in the way you did. ;) But you "reacted" to external stimuli. We are all this way. Reacting to things being done and said and all the while changing our false personalities from one to another. No wonder the world is a mess, eh?

And, yes, this is terrible. Terrible because we don't even know that we are doing it, we are just reacting to everyday stuff. And, thus, we live in a world of horror. Some people are more awake than others, but most are very sound asleep, or are asleep dreaming that they are awake.

I think that reading In Search of the Miraculous may really help you to understand what we are talking about here.

Good reading!
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Hi Guardian,

I don't know if I can help you or not, but thought I'd give it a try. :)

Thank you :)

Remember the duck suit and chaining yourself to a bulldozer?

Oh yeah...still thinking about it as a matter of fact. Could still happen if I exhaust other options ;)

We are controlled by the external forces outside of us because we do not "act", but "react" to external stimuli.

How is this "control?" I could always choose to do nothing about the situation at Kituwah...many have? Unless we are talking about an actual physical attack, I choose what I do, or do not do, on a day to day ...even minute to minute basis.

I seem to remember you saying a few times that you have said things and then wished later that you hadn't said them. Well, at least not in the way you did. ;) But you "reacted" to external stimuli.

I would have thought that was me intentionally letting my predator speak up, 'cause it felt good at the time. :-[
Still... I made the choice to give vent to my inner snarky self (and regretted it later)


I think that reading In Search of the Miraculous may really help you to understand what we are talking about here.
Good reading!

Yeah, I really need to get that book. I can tell a lot of my confusion comes from not understanding EXACTLY what yawl mean when you use certain phrases...and I am gonna fix that! It's high on the list ....and I'm going into the nasty big city any day now :-[
 
Guardian said:
Yeah, and some of "his" women got VERY nasty if you pointed that out. Carlos took an eternal truth that EVERY culture has its own legend explaining ....ie: big bad meanies diddled human DNA to make their lunch (us) more tasty, and turned it into his own personal vehicle to a life of sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Hey Guardian... I am curious. Were you one of the participants at the Westwood seminars (some seminars Castaneda put on in California for teaching the "magical passes")? One of those people eventually started the website sustainedaction.org, which seems to be this person's attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff from those days. Frankly, a lot of the testimonials that come from that site strike me as people trying to put their lives back together after being mentally reamed by their exposure with Castaneda. And I don't mean "reamed" as in a form of positive disintegration...

His writings were from time to time incredibly clear and poignant concerning the human struggle for knowledge, and I guess that is why we still quote him.
 
Guardian said:
Nienna Eluch said:
We are controlled by the external forces outside of us because we do not "act", but "react" to external stimuli.

How is this "control?" I could always choose to do nothing about the situation at Kituwah...many have? Unless we are talking about an actual physical attack, I choose what I do, or do not do, on a day to day ...even minute to minute basis.

Maybe in this context, 'control' means that, sometimes, our assessing of an external circumstance evokes learned reaction patterns and these energy patterns can impinge on us with such an influence (or force) that, if our current self-control tendency is towards 'default' actions, the result will be 'reaction'?

Sorry if I blew this, but it is obvious to me that the bulk of folks out there are in 'default' mode 24/7....total reaction machines. You can see it plain as day, but not everyone is a total robot. Some seem to be more aware than others. :)
 
Patience said:
Hey Guardian... I am curious. Were you one of the participants at the Westwood seminars (some seminars Castaneda put on in California for teaching the "magical passes")?

Nope, not me. I was born with a serious guru allergy ;)

One of those people eventually started the website sustainedaction.org, which seems to be this person's attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff from those days.

Nice site :)
 
Bud said:
Maybe in this context, 'control' means that, sometimes, our assessing of an external circumstance evokes learned reaction patterns and these energy patterns can impinge on us with such an influence (or force) that, if our current self-control tendency is towards 'default' actions, the result will be 'reaction'?

Hmmmm..... well if that was one of my many issues, I think I would have slapped the snot out of some fool longgggggg before now. ;D
 
Hmmmm..... well if that was one of my many issues, I think I would have slapped the snot out of some fool longgggggg before now.

yes, ma'am, and
(maybe that doesn't make sense but that's the best way i could think to describe my thoughts at the moment)
 
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