What do the rich and powerful fantasize about?

[brandon]

I get it. I’ll never agree with certain members of the forum. So I won’t post much and I’ll watch to see what happens.

But lets not be “jerks” and use words lest we offend people.

All that just hits me as word salad. Which is ok, it’s why I’ll limit engagement.

Well it sounds like now YOU are a bit offended :) Maybe you don't see it as offendedness, if you're not feeling hot under the collar about it? I dunno. But it sounds like "You don't like the way I say things? Fine, I won't talk to you then.".. when you could be like "Ok, I'll change how I say things a bit, because I do have things to say".. (or, just continue on as before).. It's your choice of course, but personally I think it'd be a shame, because I've found your perspective interesting benkostka..

(Speaking of Castaneda, I always liked this Don Juan quote: "Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellow men. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone.")

I was one of the people who clicked 'like' on your original reply in this thread.. I didn't really think about it, mainly was just agreeing with the bit about Bill Gates, I didn't see it as you telling FM258 to shut up, it felt fairly neutral to me FWIW. But thinking about it, I can see how it could've scared off a new member..

So yeah I think we should try not to let feeling offended sidetrack us. But I also think we should try not to offend other people, or at least, talk to them on their own level (sounds condescending, but I mean like, meeting halfway? Talking to people "in their own language"?).. because we can't expect them to hold to the same ideal of not-feeling-offended.. That's their own responsibility. And at the very least, "offending" people seems to often achieve nothing more than shutting doors, closing off possibilities of interaction..

ANYWAY I'm rambling. As for the actual question of the thread, I dunno! I've known a couple people who became practically overnight multi-millionaires.. One of them seemed to go completely off the rails, go crazy with money. The other seemed to continue on as normal, like it hardly changed him, at least from the outside. I guess it's just what their respective natures were like... For actual elites, hmmm.. If you can easily obtain whatever material things you want? If you suddenly had that thrust upon you it must be like a whirlwind of dream craziness..the material world immeasurably changed, but you are still you.. If you were BORN into it so it's just normal for you, I have no idea, find it hard to imagine... I guess even things like not having to go to the supermarket to buy groceries, cook, clean etc, but having someone else do that for you..might make your psyche quite different from most people..

 

[JGeropoulas]

I have read that thread. She had other problems she was hiding (hence, a mask).

This comes back to my point. You need to get past the mask before really understanding where someone is coming from. Admittedly she was a little more sophisticated in her approach, and was harder to uncover... but if you know the signs, it is possible.

You could say, that dealing with her in a way to not activate her programs, allowed the situation to fester longer than it should have.

Seeing someone else's programs in play helps us communicate (or not) with them more effectively. Someone else seeing their own programs in play helps them hear what we're communicating more accurately. But helping someone else see their programs is usually helpful only if they are able/willing to see them. Otherwise (unless it's requested e.g. "a mirror"), the interaction becomes more of an "intervention" or confrontation than a conversation. There are times that might be exactly what needs to be done (e.g. person in authority abusing others), but those situations are probably more the exception than the rule.

 

[JGeropoulas]

Yeah, by all accounts, they are very VERY boring people. No creativity, no imagination.

If I recall correctly, Lobaczewski, Cleckley or Stout wrote that psychopaths have a very barren emotional world revolving around only one driving emotion: the lust for control. So I imagine any fantasies they have would be of that nature.

 

[Glenn]

Well, I guess this thread has lived up to it's goal. Accomplished nothing and wasted a lot of time.

Cheers...

 

[Anthony]

If I recall correctly, Lobaczewski, Cleckley or Stout wrote that psychopaths have a very barren emotional world revolving around only one driving emotion: the lust for control. So I imagine any fantasies they have would be of that nature.

Robert Ressler, who's career was spent profiling serial killers noted in his book Whoever Fights Monsters that these pathological individuals where extremely self-focused and obsessed with their fantasies and wishful thinking, a few excerpts are below. I assume the same would be true for the PTB.

His thinking patterns are all turned inward, designed only to stimulate himself.
--
They are obsessed with fantasy, and they have what we must call nonfulfilled experiences that become part of the fantasy and push them on toward the next killing.
--
My research convinced me that the key was not early trauma but the development of perverse thought patterns. These men were motivated to murder by their fantasies.
--
Faced with a difficult happenstance such as the loss of a job, they turn inward and focus on their own problems to the exclusion of all else, and on fantasies as the solution to the problems.
--
The fantasies are substitutes for more positive human encounters, and as the adolescent becomes more dependent on them, he loses touch with acceptable social values.

 

[Sol Logos]

You could say, that dealing with her in a way to not activate her programs, allowed the situation to fester longer than it should have.

Who was dealing with her in this way?

Well, I guess this thread has lived up to it's goal. Accomplished nothing and wasted a lot of time.

Cheers...

Who’s goal, accomplished nothing for whom and wasted whose time?

For me, I’ve come to question whether I can also be too quick to assume I know about others and even what’s “good” for them. I’m led to believe that sometimes that’s true, and this thread, among other factors, has helped me to review myself more. My time hasn’t been wasted, on the contrary.

 

[Glenn]

Who was dealing with her in this way?

The answer is pretty obvious. Not sure why you are asking since you brought her name up.

Have you read the thread in question that Palinuris posted a link to? I think your answers lie within.

Cheers

 

[FM258]

Well, I guess this thread has lived up to it's goal. Accomplished nothing and wasted a lot of time.

Cheers...

We all have the capability to advance or degrade a posted thread.

Despite the 'self appointed decider of what is a worthwhile post' in the "whats on your mind" forum...others have joined the discussion in a positive and constructive way that has given me a better feeling about this board. You have some good people here.

 

[Ichbee]

I have found the interactions from the various responses very interesting and giving me 'food for thought'.

My take-away was that it has fostered coherence amongst the group and caused people to re-consider their thinking /mental position /approach.
The responses were a bit divisive at the start, but as it evolved, it drove alignment /appreciation of other people's thinking.

After all, isn't that the nature of growth :)

 

[miguel angel]

If you are poor, fantasies about just anything are on your radar.

The more wealth and power you attain, more of those old fantasies become obtainable.

We all have the daydream/fantasy gene...so thats my question....people like Bill Gates and Elon, can have anything they want, but what do you suppose they "might" think about. Its an odd topic, but I get these strange ideas once in awhile.

I guess they dream of Immortality.

 

[Tauriel]

I guess they dream of Immortality.

I think it's hard to say.
Let's take Gate who's 'greenbaumed' aka mk-ultra. This means his core personality has been fractured at a very young age, maybe even before birth. His father has been a prominent eugenist and it's not far fetched to imply that he comes from a family where this kind of programming is generational. It always goes along with great traumas.
Do we know what a fractured self (more and differently fractured than we with our little 'I's) dreams about?
I've read a lot about mk-ultra and from people who tried to exit and become whole again. To try this you first muct become aware that you're fractured with all kind of alters for different purposes.
Having the programs run undisturbed they probably get updates when needed.
And then, yes, they might dream of superpowers and immortality as a kind of birth right.

Edit: grammar

 

[Sol Logos]

Admittedly she was a little more sophisticated in her approach, and was harder to uncover... but if you know the signs, it is possible.

So forum members at the time didn’t know the signs?

You could say, that dealing with her in a way to not activate her programs, allowed the situation to fester longer than it should have.

Or some knew the signs but chose not to activate Anart’s programs?

Who was dealing with her in this way?

In other words, the question was which forum members are you talking about?

The answer is pretty obvious. Not sure why you are asking since you brought her name up.

Looks like my question wasn’t clear. See above break down.

Have you read the thread in question that Palinuris posted a link to?
Cheers

Yes I’ve read it.

I think your answers lie within.

Cheers

That’s the reason I brought the thread up

 

[Alejo]

It seems the discussion has split into two topics, mainly the exercise of utilizing what we know about those in power, to attempt to decipher what their goals might be, I know it sounds like a imaginary exercise of a hypothetical scenario that is ultimately unverifiable, but I think it serves a purpose, to highlight the essential difference between normal human beings and the psychopaths that run the show.. or were placed in charge of running the show.

The other split in the discussion is on the topic of how to approach feedback when it is being asked, how to find the balance between a direct, no nonsense kind of approach, which is called for in certain situations, and a more polite and diplomatic one. Which interestingly can devolve into a discussion of hypothetical scenarios as well.

Best I can suggest, is to remember that not every situation calls for the same approach, holding on to one so firmly will eventually land one in trouble. So, recognizing the correct approach in the situation is part of the task.

The second half of that task, IMO, is recognizing one's own tendencies and how that affects one's choice in the above scenarios, maybe one identifies a tendency to be too kind and agreeable, or too disagreeable. So recognizing that is also part of the decision making process.

As always, aiming for balance seems to be the best goal, but perhaps it's beyond balance, it's more about plasticity and flexibility, adaptability.

So, every situation is different, and that is self evident, and as such they require different responses, and how to choose that is largely based on observation, both of the situation without, but also on our own conditions within. I don't think anyone needs to be perfect to post, but one of the things I've become acquainted with lately is that awareness, and indeed will, can come after the choice is initiated.

It's not so much, sometimes, about exercising our will before a choice is made (or convincing ourselves that we can, or that we willfully initiated a choice), sometimes it's about awareness and how we respond to how we made those choices.

Does that make sense?

In that sense, I haven't found this thread, even though some of these concepts are also explored elsewhere in the forum, a waste of time, personally.

 

[Voyageur]

Pondering your title, @PM258 - What do the rich and powerful fantasize about? and the tendency of the question seems to want to play at the class-card due to some that fit the category, which is natural. How about a G. Soros, don't want to know or even imagine what he fantasizes about (the one ring to rule, I suppose).

If by saying the rich, this might look to at least the 1% or .001% and then how did they become rich - maybe they even inherited due to no other reason then to those he/she was born to. Then the next category is powerful in the same percent, yet powerful can have different meanings - benevolent or malevolent, and each likely dreams/fantasizes at opposite sides of the spectrum.

It might or might not be agreed that a fraction of the percentage of the rich and powerful obtained both through very hard work, while maintaining their benevolent FRV nature that is inherent in them in a way that supports a great many (obyvatel like). They may be powerful in that they can't be knocked down by their malevolent counterparts so easily - they keep them in check (Putin is at least powerful). Yes it is rare, yet it is not one brush that paints all.

If someone who is rich and powerful and is 'just,' they may fantasize of bettering the lives of those round them, who is to say? A snippet of this can be read in some of the Romance thread books, yet again, it is more rare but not out of the question, osit. Would encourage anyone who is rich and powerful to have a good look in the mirror.

The leaning to the title might be to stamp the picture into the mind in a certain way that people are more used to in these times, it might generally involve ugliness, yet again, this is natural based on the question and the times. So, just adding some context that in a better world there might be more balance to the rich and powerful fantasies .

 

[FM258]

Pondering your title, @PM258 - What do the rich and powerful fantasize about? and the tendency of the question seems to want to play at the class-card due to some that fit the category, which is natural. How about a G. Soros, don't want to know or even imagine what he fantasizes about (the one ring to rule, I suppose).

If by saying the rich, this might look to at least the 1% or .001% and then how did they become rich - maybe they even inherited due to no other reason then to those he/she was born to. Then the next category is powerful in the same percent, yet powerful can have different meanings - benevolent or malevolent, and each likely dreams/fantasizes at opposite sides of the spectrum.

It might or might not be agreed that a fraction of the percentage of the rich and powerful obtained both through very hard work, while maintaining their benevolent FRV nature that is inherent in them in a way that supports a great many (obyvatel like). They may be powerful in that they can't be knocked down by their malevolent counterparts so easily - they keep them in check (Putin is at least powerful). Yes it is rare, yet it is not one brush that paints all.

If someone who is rich and powerful and is 'just,' they may fantasize of bettering the lives of those round them, who is to say? A snippet of this can be read in some of the Romance thread books, yet again, it is more rare but not out of the question, osit. Would encourage anyone who is rich and powerful to have a good look in the mirror.

The leaning to the title might be to stamp the picture into the mind in a certain way that people are more used to in these times, it might generally involve ugliness, yet again, this is natural based on the question and the times. So, just adding some context that in a better world there might be more balance to the rich and powerful fantasies .

I did not mean Gates or Elon specifically, but used them as a metaphor for the ultra rich....when ANYTHING is available to you.
Normal sex gets boring, even for us rabble...when you can obtain any perversion, would they get farther and farther from accepted norms... secret societies of these rich and rumors of their sex parties....Eyes Wide Shut comes to mind...would it include minors...etc... was just something I was pondering, and had run into the forum titled "whats on your mind" and decided to put it in writing. Not a very well thought out thread, but I thought it had potential to widen my beliefs about the topic, and it didn't disappoint there.