What is the second death?

Wandering Star

Dagobah Resident
I would like it if it is possible for someone to explain this concept to me with more precision. Especially linking the traditional explanation, with that provided by the C's.

Does consciousness not aligned with a soul disappear?

Return to the common information bank for that species, as is supposed to happen with animals?

In my life I think I interact with at least one organic portal and despite its drainage for years, I worry about its future.

He told me that in a dream, he saw deceased relatives and one said provoking great pain: "What are you doing here, if you do not exist?"

Thank you.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Sure, why not post the traditional explanation, the explanation provided by the C's and give us your interpretation of what you read in this thread and we can go from there? A little energy input from both sides :-)
Have you read the whole Wave series?

I don't think consciousness can disappear. I believe it takes many lifetimes to grow a soul, little by little, waxing and waning even.

I don't know if that dream necessarily means that person is an organic portal. It could be more metaphorical, like asking what are you doing here if you don't have a purpose/aim?

Wandering Star

Dagobah Resident
The C's have expressly said that the organic portals (without soul) also go to the 5 density, but temporarily until the "second death". And in another session they confirm to Laura that they nourish themselves energetically from a bank of consciousness similar to the one they presuppose for the animal kingdom.

According to a note by Laura about it, the esoteric tradition says that the second death means consciousness that disappears or vanishes 40 days after death.

I thought he had explained me well in the exposition of the subject.

And yes I read the wave series and the C's sessions almost two times. But that means nothing. One can read something a thousand times and not understand anything.


FOTCM Member
I don't know if that dream necessarily means that person is an organic portal. It could be more metaphorical, like asking what are you doing here if you don't have a purpose/aim?

I think lainey has a good point. Even when you think that a person might be an "organic portal", I would be careful with that label. In a sense we are all there until we have "our act together" (12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: Jordan B. Peterson: 9780345816023: Amazon.com: Books).

Jordan Peterson says that your chances of hitting a target without aiming at it are practically null. As we are discussing in the Darwinian thread (Darwin's Black Box - Michael J. Behe and Intelligent Design), blind random mutations doesn't lead to evolution.

The pain might derive more from an aimless life which leads nowhere. Perhaps it would be useful to re-focus your perspective and preoccupation and ask yourself, what can I do better to align myself with consciousness? Would getting focused on other people's choices and life lessons and determining from your own preconceptions what is best for them, help you with that aim?

Wandering Star

Dagobah Resident
Thanks, Gaby.

Totally agree. In fact, as the C's say, dreams are a source of perfect misinformation for our friends on the dark side of force.

The point is that until I found the C's I assumed that everyone had a soul. Well in fact it is like that, but the one that more or less half of the population of the planet has a soul similar to the one that the animals share, broke my schemes. Once again! heh, heh

A greeting.


Jedi Council Member
I wonder if an Organic Portal/PreAdamic would have such a dream, sounds rather the opposite, no?

As for 40 days... and nights? like wandering in the desert? :-/ But as time here isn't there, it seems more a process than a countdown, but the principle seems correct in that so many ancient cultures have similar principles regarding death practices and waiting times.


Padawan Learner
Hm, well that is a tough question, and one that I've been wondering about for a while as well. Needless to say, from our vantage point it is hard to determine, but I do recall a few comments of the C's that will hopefully help shed some light on the issue and maybe we could draw some inferences therefrom.

Session 4 March 2012
Q: (L) Is there anything you can say to Armando to help him deal with his pain?

A: Death is just passing through a door that is not accessible to the living except on the mental planes. If his father wishes to fully honor his son and his choice, he might do well to use this event as motivation to develop himself in a more fully spiritual way. More than that, he could help others in lieu of his son for his son.
Session 16 November 1994
Q: (L) Is this transitioning of energy from higher densities into third density or solid matter kind of a traumatic event for universal energy?

A: Subjective.

Q: (L) Is it a form of death?

A: Death and birth are the same.
(The above session has various other comments about death and changing densities (not just of humans, but even of light going from 1st to 3rd when transferred into electrical energy for one example), but for now this's all I'll be quoting.)
Session 3 June 1995
(TF) In the dream I am on an ocean liner. There are other people on board the ship, but I am not talking to them. I'm not with my friends or family. I am by myself. I among all these people, but I am not with them. It is a long journey. I walk back and forth on deck. Finally we come to a city, a major city, a seaport. I get off the ship; I walk through the city; I walk through the center of the city to the outskirts, into the countryside. The countryside is red; reddish all around. The streets are no longer paved; now they are dirt, red dirt. I come to a big house with a white picket fence under the shadow of a mountain. I know that I am supposed to be in this house. I go inside the house, there are other people there. Again, I am not talking with them when I first get there, and as the days begin to pass I do begin to talk to them and they begin to talk to me. I begin to feel better. Suddenly, in the dream, I realize that when I was first walking through the city toward the house, I was a dog; in the early days when I had first been in the house, I was being transformed into a human being, and that all the other people in the house were once animals; and that that was why we were at the house, to learn how to become a human being. It had something to do with the power of the mountain. (L) Now, the question I have is: is there some significance to this dream that you can comment on?

A: Not of great significance in a psychic sense, merely a reflection of the subject's awareness of metamorphosis within his own life path.

For consistency's sake I will include an excerpt from the session in question which Wandering Star is referring to. There are other salient details there as well but for now I'll post this:
Session 13 July 2002
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.

A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.

Q: (A) What does having a soul or not having a soul have to do with bloodline?

A: Genetics marry with soul if present.

Q: Do "organic portals" go to fifth density when they die?

A: Only temporarily until the "second death."

{This refers to an esoteric tradition teaching that some consciousness units dissipate over a period of 40 days after death unless the individual has crystallized an individuated soul.}
As an aside, I have to wonder what "temporarily" means in the context of a timeless realm of existence where, if you do go there and recycle, then isn't any length of stay there "temporary" between incarnations?

Lastly, I want to include this statement on the evolution of the soul:
Session 7 January 1995
Q: (T) So when a plant absorbs nutrients.... (L) Well, a plant is the same density as minerals, so it is almost like... (T) Like two separate entities becoming one? (V) Like Jeffrey Dahmer... {laughter} (L) My bologne has a first name... (LM) Minerals dissolve in water and are then absorbed by the plant, what pain could there be in this?

A: Subjective, L__.

Q: (L) Maybe the dissolution of, say, phosphate in water, is a "death" to it...

A: Close. You limit when you perceive on 3rd level only and think that your perception is all there is.

Q: (L) So, in other words, we should be able to perceive on 1st and 2nd as well as 3rd while working on 4th level understanding?

A: No. Work on 4th, 5th and 6th.

Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just simply for the exercise in understanding that which is below us?

A: Strive always to rise.

Q: (V) Haven't we already done our 1st and 2nd level work as evolving souls?

A: Yes.

Ok, so I know it's a lot of data but I think it's all relevant to the topic at hand. To speak more frankly for a moment, I think the topic is difficult to talk about because the idea of the "soul", what it is/does/what happens to it at 5th density and so on, is not very clearly defined in our frame of reference or it is otherwise assumed that souls are of like kind; hence, an individuated 3rd density human being is not comparable to the type of being that an organic portal unit is, and correspondingly the experiences of each at 5th density are possibly different entirely.

To speak on the materials above, if we are to assume that any entity of any particular form or level is itself a portion of the universal consciousness, and if the general purpose of existence is for those entities to learn the lessons of their particular levels and ascend in kind, then correspondingly reincarnation is a likely outcome for the "movement" of each unit of the universal consciousness.

While I know that other possibilities have been suggested elsewhere in the material, such as in the case of Vincent Bridges being "frozen" and deteriorating or something to that effect, I am not sure that the question is one not already answered in some form by the material above, particularly the statement of, "Death and birth are the same". I was planning on writing more but I think that says the most really. SO, what do you all think?
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Wandering Star

Dagobah Resident
Spectacular Lathyrus.

A huge display joining the points.

However, I have not yet been able to crystallize the second death concept.

If you allow me, I will quote from memory and with my own words something communicated by Ra (channeled by Carla, Law of one). According to Ra for each density there is a space-time (incarnation) and a time-space (revision zone, time between incarnations, 5 density of the C's). There is a discrepancy and that unlike the C's, Ra establishes a space-time and a time-space for the 5 density.

The issue is that Ra says that at physical death, souls are housed in the magnetic field of the planet in layers, depending on the evolutionary level of each soul. Therefore, the 5 density or home of the souls is the magnetical field of the planet (always according to Ra).

Well, I have considered the possibility, that thinking in macrocosmic terms, the second death of "some souls" is the dissolution of said magnetic field (home of 5 density), with which only the "souls" in evolution (connection with the 7 density) would remain waiting for their next destination (after said quantum jump), repeat density, lower density or increase density.

Therefore, the temporary stay in the 5 density of the organic portals is in terms of our fictitious 3-density time measurement of possibly millions of years. In terms of density, who knows, it can be infinite or a moment.


Padawan Learner
realitybugll, you're not being very coherent. Perhaps you could expand on your one-line comment, for all our elucidation?

Anyway, yes, thank you Wandering Star, I'm glad that you've mentioned Ra as that was where I wanted to go next in our discussion.

Speaking frankly for a moment, I was thinking that they probably reincarnate in an automatic way like animals would, but upon some review of the materials available and the more I consider it, the more I think I've entirely misapprehended the subject (largely out of fear over the idea of something that "is" having the possibility of "not being") and so maybe they really do just dissipate into nothing after death. I don't know, I can't make any further sense out of it.


Dagobah Resident
I didn't know about that 'second death', but it reminds me of something from Castaneda / Don Juan

Carlos Castaneda - Separate Reality
"I told you that my son's life expanded at the time of his personal death," he said. "I was not talking about death in general but about my son's death. Death, whatever it is, made his life expand."
I definitely wanted to steer the conversation out of the realm of particulars, and mentioned that I had been reading accounts of people who had died for several minutes and had been revived through medical techniques. In all the cases I had read, the persons involved had made statements, upon reviving, that they could not recollect anything at all; that dying was simply a sensation of blacking out.
"That's perfectly understandable," he said. "Death has two stages. The first is a blackout. It is a meaningless stage, very similar to the first effect of Mescalito, in which one experiences a lightness that makes one feel happy, complete, and that everything in the world is at ease. But that is only a shallow state; it soon vanishes and one enters a new realm, a realm of harshness and power. That second stage is the real encounter with Mescalito. Death is very much like this. The first stage is a shallow blackout. The second, however, is the real stage where one meets with death; it is a brief moment, after the first blackout, when we find that we are, somehow, ourselves again. It is then that death smashes against us with quiet fury and power until it dissolves our lives into nothing."
"How can you be sure that you are talking about death?"
"I have my ally. The little smoke has shown me my unmistakable death with great clarity. This is why I can only talk about personal death."


The Living Force
However, I have not yet been able to crystallize the second death concept.

The following references might be helpful by approaching the issue from different angles -- including sideways. :-)

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/threads/session-13-july-2002.21637/ said:
Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?

A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.

Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a period of rest and recharging. You also said that the SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the question is: what source of energy is tapped to recharge both the body and the soul?

A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.

Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?

A: The pool you have described.

Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?

A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual center and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.

Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?

A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

Do animals have souls too?
Pets acting strange?
Sending a dead dog's spirit to 5D

Organic Portals: The Other Race
Organic Portals, the "Second Death", Reincarnation, NDEs

Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity
Soul Potentiality in Adamic Man

To grow a soul, one must study events of the past
Soul, genes, karma and learning 3D lessons

Are Psychopaths The Only People Without Souls?
A theory on psychopaths' souls!

On Death
On Life After Death - Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

That's all I could come up with after searching my bookmarks. Hope this helps you out.


The Living Force
the second death is what happened to Lathyrus and it was a mistake.
Hi realitybugll
Sorry if I'm not following very well here but I just opened this thread and read from the top down until I saw your post and I didn't quite get it. So that I understand better please can you tell me where is Lathrus's second death described and where it being a mistake is also.


Dagobah Resident
The second death as you know is related to the lake of fire. This is what appears in the Bible. In some esoteric texts it is indicated that the second death is the dissolution of the personality - the energy that sustains or agglutinates the soul - returns to the "fire of the elements" that are the basic forces of nature (electromagnetism, electricity, etc)

The lake of fire as a concept is not far from the concept of energetic pool when referring to flora and fauna.

Wandering Star

Dagobah Resident
Hahaha. How big Bluegazer I have begun to read the links you have so kindly shared and without having finished much less, I can not resist to say thank you.

How great to be among teachers!

When I read everything, if I can contribute something on my part I will do it.

By the way, according to Ra (Law of One), at physical death the soul revises the recently completed incarnation and filters out the distortions of personality acquired in that incarnation, leaving pure distortions (those that cause evolution in the soul). Certain guidelines that defined our personality disappear (religious ideas, politics, sexual, etc ...).

Is not that also a second death?

Well, not really, because who we really are, our authentic essence, remains intact.

Thank you.
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