What programs have YOU discovered?

Upon further reflection I notice that my thinking passed right over a vital part of what you posted Obyvatel, the "anger - which has provided the emotional fuel or energy to work towards making myself "worthy" of existing". I've spent so much energy figuring out what others need, without asking them, driving myself to exhaustion to "earn the right to breathe", to be worthy enough to exist. It is so helpful to be able to trace this back to the core belief. Interesting how some parts of me did not want to see this.
 
I have a knight in shinning armor program.
Its not as strong as it used to be, and recently I noticed that it is a superficial layer of something deeper.
I feel distressed everytime I'm near someone who seems to be in pain, in suffering. Its stronger when I'm near someone who seems to be in emotional pain as opposed as physical pain.
Maybe this is related to my belief that emotional pain lingers for more time and makes people suffer more.
So, I feel compelled to find some way to bring relief to the person.

Another thing I noticed is a tendency to take a lot of things to do at the same time. I sometimes feel that I'm not as efficient or capable as other people, so I do a lot of things trying to compensate.
 
I've recently noticed that while I often have no problem recognizing mistakes in my past, I have problems recognizing - admitting to - mistakes in the present. It requires some force of will.

Why is this? It seems I have a "need" to "be right" - a common problem ("Right Man Syndrome"). But when it comes to mistakes - or otherwise "being wrong" - in the past, there is also the sense that I have changed since "then". That right now I "know better" - now I am "right" - and hence it is no longer threatening to admit to erring. Because if I do, I admit to erring "back then", rather than to being in error now. Even if "back then" was earlier the same day.

As long as the event is no longer ongoing, I easily convince myself that "I know better now". This convincing is not verbal - it is more an attitude that automatically kicks in. It is recognized by the flavor of mental activity and the questions I ask and don't ask myself - and what I accept, and what I resist unless I know better and will power is applied.


Going back to mistakes in the present - ones where I am still in the situation - what happens? If I am in a conversation, and if I don't watch and catch myself, I might divert it down a tangent. Say, a thought I had before the wrong conclusion, making this the focus and using it to justify what I said previously, as if that is what I meant - when it wasn't - although at the time I might convince myself otherwise, and if I go ahead, it might look like it to others, too.

It is something subtle, yet ugly, I've recently come to see.

It's a kind of "yes, but" tactic. I've seen various such tactics being used by my mind when it comes to convincing myself that I'm not wrong right now. This "toolbox" is large, and there's something for each occasion. Some I recognize and do not allow to convince me. Others, I sometimes see through and sometimes not. And probably, there are still those I have yet to see - analytically I know this, emotionally there is resistance - the exact problem I am describing.


What is at the root? One part is likely issues connected to splitting and the "Fear of the Abyss". Then there is Crucial Conversations, which gives ideas for observing oneself in conversations and keeping them constructive. (And several of its basic ideas seem applicable outside of that as well - very much in line with the more general approach of self-observation and Work.)
 
I had an amazing experience today about one of my programs (in retrospect, because it was pretty painful when it was happening). I've been reading Trapped in the Mirror for a while now (one chapter a day, because it's a pretty overwhelming lecture), and I've already noticed a lot of progress in understanding a lot more about myself and my issues now, and it's all pretty ground-breaking. Yet, there are certain things I knew that must have happened during my childhood years to make me feel/behave this way as an adult, but I either can't remember them, or only remember them in vague way without understanding the mechanics of it. Today one of those thing has come to the light.

It started pretty innocent. I was having a walk with my mother and our dog, and we were talking about many things, since we have a lot of similar interests. Suddenly, I was reminded of the thing I've read about recently regarding number 9 and its interesting mathematical properties. I began with asking my mother if her teacher in primary school taught her how to multiple by nine by picking a finger and then counting fingers to the left, then right. She answered that no, she didn't know that, so I began to teach her while we were walking. I showed it to her in the easiest way possible and I was pretty methodical about it, like I always am when explaining something. But she was unable to comprehend what I was saying. She has that problem a lot. She is an intelligent person, but she often complicates things for herself. Her thought patterns can get tangled and starts to resemble proverbial Gordian knot. It's like she has some brain pathways slightly damaged, which I think might have something to do with her being born with asphyxia.

Anyway, I was explaining, she wasn't getting it, and she started being angry at me. She lashed at me saying that I'm a lousy teacher, a terrible one and that I can't explain a thing, and obviously I can't do even simple mathematics. I was immediately hurt. I was just trying to show her something, and she behaved that way. At first I was thinking along the line of "what's going on?" and "how it turned out this way", but very quickly my voice became louder and louder and started to show signs of hysterics. I ended up lashing at her too saying that it is her that can't obviously understand anything, and the whole argument turned into big fight.

At some point, I started to point out (angrily) that she was always this way. Unable to communicate with me (and later, my younger sister) when I was little, incapable to explain certain things in a understandable way (especially school subjects like mathematics), then being angry at me because of her own lacking. I was on the verge of tears and almost hyperventilating. But at some point I stopped, almost breathless, because suddenly it all started to make sense to me.

When I was very young she made my believe that I somewhat impaired, unable to comprehend things like mathematical formulas, only because I couldn't understand her way of teaching because it was overcomplicated and it didn't make much sense to me. I remember crying a lot when she was done with me, remember how unhappy and stressed I was, and how much I hated to have to study with her, and do my homework with her "help". Yet, I assimilated that belief so it became one of the faces of my negative introject, and I carried it along with me to this day. To the point that it began manifest in my life. I really started to have problems with mathematics, and later on with other science subject like physics ans chemistry, especially when I had to use formulas. At some point, I was doing so bad, and I was so behind, that I had to take private lessons. And surprise surprise, once I've found a good teacher I was actually excelling in it. Nonetheless, deep down I still believed that it must've been my own fault. That I'm a slow thinker and lacking something. Forget that throughout all my life I've been shown signs that say quite the contrary. I believed that I'm incapable of doing certain things, that I will never succeed. My mother made my believe I'm stupid because of her own shortcomings...

Another side of that belief is a program, that once faced with someone criticising me and making me feel that way again, it manifests with me having over-the-top emotional reaction. I usually began raising my voice, often have having trouble with breathing, and the more I get hurt the more I'm cutting this person with my words, using the ones I know would be especially painful. I believe it is my defence mechanism, reaction for what I perceive as an attack on the self. Sometimes, I go so emotional I would have trouble expressing myself and phrasing things, which frustrates me further, and adding to that destroying belief that I lack when it comes to my brain.

But now that I'm actually aware of that - in details - I have a chance to finally free myself from it. I actually feel a lot lighter now. And to think it all started with with the number 9...
 
Well I've been noticing that when I feel the environment or the place i'm in is too stressed, I tend to say jokes and behave a little childish just to spark up people, or to take out stress, sometimes it works and sometimes it makes people angry at me. I want to work on it, though I don't know if I really need to.
 
zhenqing said:
I had an amazing experience today about one of my programs (in retrospect, because it was pretty painful when it was happening). I've been reading Trapped in the Mirror for a while now (one chapter a day, because it's a pretty overwhelming lecture), and I've already noticed a lot of progress in understanding a lot more about myself and my issues now, and it's all pretty ground-breaking. Yet, there are certain things I knew that must have happened during my childhood years to make me feel/behave this way as an adult, but I either can't remember them, or only remember them in vague way without understanding the mechanics of it. Today one of those thing has come to the light.

It started pretty innocent. I was having a walk with my mother and our dog, and we were talking about many things, since we have a lot of similar interests. Suddenly, I was reminded of the thing I've read about recently regarding number 9 and its interesting mathematical properties. I began with asking my mother if her teacher in primary school taught her how to multiple by nine by picking a finger and then counting fingers to the left, then right. She answered that no, she didn't know that, so I began to teach her while we were walking. I showed it to her in the easiest way possible and I was pretty methodical about it, like I always am when explaining something. But she was unable to comprehend what I was saying. She has that problem a lot. She is an intelligent person, but she often complicates things for herself. Her thought patterns can get tangled and starts to resemble proverbial Gordian knot. It's like she has some brain pathways slightly damaged, which I think might have something to do with her being born with asphyxia.

Anyway, I was explaining, she wasn't getting it, and she started being angry at me. She lashed at me saying that I'm a lousy teacher, a terrible one and that I can't explain a thing, and obviously I can't do even simple mathematics. I was immediately hurt. I was just trying to show her something, and she behaved that way. At first I was thinking along the line of "what's going on?" and "how it turned out this way", but very quickly my voice became louder and louder and started to show signs of hysterics. I ended up lashing at her too saying that it is her that can't obviously understand anything, and the whole argument turned into big fight.

At some point, I started to point out (angrily) that she was always this way. Unable to communicate with me (and later, my younger sister) when I was little, incapable to explain certain things in a understandable way (especially school subjects like mathematics), then being angry at me because of her own lacking. I was on the verge of tears and almost hyperventilating. But at some point I stopped, almost breathless, because suddenly it all started to make sense to me.

When I was very young she made my believe that I somewhat impaired, unable to comprehend things like mathematical formulas, only because I couldn't understand her way of teaching because it was overcomplicated and it didn't make much sense to me. I remember crying a lot when she was done with me, remember how unhappy and stressed I was, and how much I hated to have to study with her, and do my homework with her "help". Yet, I assimilated that belief so it became one of the faces of my negative introject, and I carried it along with me to this day. To the point that it began manifest in my life. I really started to have problems with mathematics, and later on with other science subject like physics ans chemistry, especially when I had to use formulas. At some point, I was doing so bad, and I was so behind, that I had to take private lessons. And surprise surprise, once I've found a good teacher I was actually excelling in it. Nonetheless, deep down I still believed that it must've been my own fault. That I'm a slow thinker and lacking something. Forget that throughout all my life I've been shown signs that say quite the contrary. I believed that I'm incapable of doing certain things, that I will never succeed. My mother made my believe I'm stupid because of her own shortcomings...

Another side of that belief is a program, that once faced with someone criticising me and making me feel that way again, it manifests with me having over-the-top emotional reaction. I usually began raising my voice, often have having trouble with breathing, and the more I get hurt the more I'm cutting this person with my words, using the ones I know would be especially painful. I believe it is my defence mechanism, reaction for what I perceive as an attack on the self. Sometimes, I go so emotional I would have trouble expressing myself and phrasing things, which frustrates me further, and adding to that destroying belief that I lack when it comes to my brain.

But now that I'm actually aware of that - in details - I have a chance to finally free myself from it. I actually feel a lot lighter now. And to think it all started with with the number 9...

First of all, thank you for sharing, zhenqing. And since number 9 had played heavily in my own life, I would like to share my own story. All my life till recently, I felt as essentially being bad and that brought a lot of feelings of guilt and shame. I did my share of things that I wish I wouldn't, but that's how we learn. A hard way. That doesn't relieve me from a sense of responsibility for my own actions, and that's why I remember each and every moment when I unjustly caused pain to someone else by my own behavior. It helps to really grow up, osit.

I now understand that my actions were a result of narcissistic wounding. And as Psalehesost mentioned in his post, it was really difficult for me to admit my own mistakes and ask for help. Now, it gets easier and easier, although I'm still learning how to be really open.

When I was growing up, in the family of three women (my grandmother, my mother and me), I experienced a lot of violence coming from my grandmother towards my mother and me. I lived in constant fear of her, maybe, not even consciously realizing it at times (she has her own story of violence and abuse that most likely made her behave the way she did, and I'm still trying to unravel it). My mother herself, growing up with my grandmother and being subjected to violence, although at times she had tried to resist her control and dominance, convinced herself that I'm all right, and she is the only victim. She simply couldn't see what was going on, and I, not to upset her, never told her things that was done to me personally. She pitied my grandmother because of her unfortunate childhood, and, in retrospect, I think we wouldn't be able to survive without my grandmother's help. In my childhood, I felt as is being put between two fires with no place to be at peace. What a lonely place that was!

At some point in time, I had to make one of the hardest decisions in my life – to leave my mother after trying to help her, although she was in a dire state. I realized that she will not learn if I stay, and I just might die trying to help her. Literally. It broke my heart, when I realized that I will probably never experience unconditional love and care that every child deserves from their mother. After leaving my mother, I have lived in the state of depression feeling even more guilty and ashamed for leaving her for many, many years. The good thing was that it brought a lot of memories and feelings associated with them that I had suppressed for a long time, so I could process them and gain real understanding of 'how' and 'why'. It has been really long and arduous process. The birth of my daughter, and reading a lot of what Laura has written so openly about herself and her life and what Sott team has been offering on the SoTT page over the years helped me to deepen my understanding even further. What I'm trying to say by writing all of this is that looking at things or situations from a place of compassion to yourself and others, can help to gain a real knowledge.

And, in conclusion, I would just like to suggest that you read or re-read Laura's "The Poisoned Apple", chapter 24 of the Wave http://cassiopaea.org/2011/11/14/chapter-twenty-four-the-poisoned-apple/ It brought a lot of comfort and understanding to me personally when I read it a long time ago as it did today, when I re-read it once again.
 
Olesya said:
zhenqing said:
I had an amazing experience today about one of my programs (in retrospect, because it was pretty painful when it was happening). I've been reading Trapped in the Mirror for a while now (one chapter a day, because it's a pretty overwhelming lecture), and I've already noticed a lot of progress in understanding a lot more about myself and my issues now, and it's all pretty ground-breaking. Yet, there are certain things I knew that must have happened during my childhood years to make me feel/behave this way as an adult, but I either can't remember them, or only remember them in vague way without understanding the mechanics of it. Today one of those thing has come to the light.

It started pretty innocent. I was having a walk with my mother and our dog, and we were talking about many things, since we have a lot of similar interests. Suddenly, I was reminded of the thing I've read about recently regarding number 9 and its interesting mathematical properties. I began with asking my mother if her teacher in primary school taught her how to multiple by nine by picking a finger and then counting fingers to the left, then right. She answered that no, she didn't know that, so I began to teach her while we were walking. I showed it to her in the easiest way possible and I was pretty methodical about it, like I always am when explaining something. But she was unable to comprehend what I was saying. She has that problem a lot. She is an intelligent person, but she often complicates things for herself. Her thought patterns can get tangled and starts to resemble proverbial Gordian knot. It's like she has some brain pathways slightly damaged, which I think might have something to do with her being born with asphyxia.

Anyway, I was explaining, she wasn't getting it, and she started being angry at me. She lashed at me saying that I'm a lousy teacher, a terrible one and that I can't explain a thing, and obviously I can't do even simple mathematics. I was immediately hurt. I was just trying to show her something, and she behaved that way. At first I was thinking along the line of "what's going on?" and "how it turned out this way", but very quickly my voice became louder and louder and started to show signs of hysterics. I ended up lashing at her too saying that it is her that can't obviously understand anything, and the whole argument turned into big fight.

At some point, I started to point out (angrily) that she was always this way. Unable to communicate with me (and later, my younger sister) when I was little, incapable to explain certain things in a understandable way (especially school subjects like mathematics), then being angry at me because of her own lacking. I was on the verge of tears and almost hyperventilating. But at some point I stopped, almost breathless, because suddenly it all started to make sense to me.

When I was very young she made my believe that I somewhat impaired, unable to comprehend things like mathematical formulas, only because I couldn't understand her way of teaching because it was overcomplicated and it didn't make much sense to me. I remember crying a lot when she was done with me, remember how unhappy and stressed I was, and how much I hated to have to study with her, and do my homework with her "help". Yet, I assimilated that belief so it became one of the faces of my negative introject, and I carried it along with me to this day. To the point that it began manifest in my life. I really started to have problems with mathematics, and later on with other science subject like physics ans chemistry, especially when I had to use formulas. At some point, I was doing so bad, and I was so behind, that I had to take private lessons. And surprise surprise, once I've found a good teacher I was actually excelling in it. Nonetheless, deep down I still believed that it must've been my own fault. That I'm a slow thinker and lacking something. Forget that throughout all my life I've been shown signs that say quite the contrary. I believed that I'm incapable of doing certain things, that I will never succeed. My mother made my believe I'm stupid because of her own shortcomings...

Another side of that belief is a program, that once faced with someone criticising me and making me feel that way again, it manifests with me having over-the-top emotional reaction. I usually began raising my voice, often have having trouble with breathing, and the more I get hurt the more I'm cutting this person with my words, using the ones I know would be especially painful. I believe it is my defence mechanism, reaction for what I perceive as an attack on the self. Sometimes, I go so emotional I would have trouble expressing myself and phrasing things, which frustrates me further, and adding to that destroying belief that I lack when it comes to my brain.

But now that I'm actually aware of that - in details - I have a chance to finally free myself from it. I actually feel a lot lighter now. And to think it all started with with the number 9...

First of all, thank you for sharing, zhenqing. And since number 9 had played heavily in my own life, I would like to share my own story. All my life till recently, I felt as essentially being bad and that brought a lot of feelings of guilt and shame. I did my share of things that I wish I wouldn't, but that's how we learn. A hard way. That doesn't relieve me from a sense of responsibility for my own actions, and that's why I remember each and every moment when I unjustly caused pain to someone else by my own behavior. It helps to really grow up, osit.

I now understand that my actions were a result of narcissistic wounding. And as Psalehesost mentioned in his post, it was really difficult for me to admit my own mistakes and ask for help. Now, it gets easier and easier, although I'm still learning how to be really open.

When I was growing up, in the family of three women (my grandmother, my mother and me), I experienced a lot of violence coming from my grandmother towards my mother and me. I lived in constant fear of her, maybe, not even consciously realizing it at times (she has her own story of violence and abuse that most likely made her behave the way she did, and I'm still trying to unravel it). My mother herself, growing up with my grandmother and being subjected to violence, although at times she had tried to resist her control and dominance, convinced herself that I'm all right, and she is the only victim. She simply couldn't see what was going on, and I, not to upset her, never told her things that was done to me personally. She pitied my grandmother because of her unfortunate childhood, and, in retrospect, I think we wouldn't be able to survive without my grandmother's help. In my childhood, I felt as is being put between two fires with no place to be at peace. What a lonely place that was!

At some point in time, I had to make one of the hardest decisions in my life – to leave my mother after trying to help her, although she was in a dire state. I realized that she will not learn if I stay, and I just might die trying to help her. Literally. It broke my heart, when I realized that I will probably never experience unconditional love and care that every child deserves from their mother. After leaving my mother, I have lived in the state of depression feeling even more guilty and ashamed for leaving her for many, many years. The good thing was that it brought a lot of memories and feelings associated with them that I had suppressed for a long time, so I could process them and gain real understanding of 'how' and 'why'. It has been really long and arduous process. The birth of my daughter, and reading a lot of what Laura has written so openly about herself and her life and what Sott team has been offering on the SoTT page over the years helped me to deepen my understanding even further. What I'm trying to say by writing all of this is that looking at things or situations from a place of compassion to yourself and others, can help to gain a real knowledge.

And, in conclusion, I would just like to suggest that you read or re-read Laura's "The Poisoned Apple", chapter 24 of the Wave http://cassiopaea.org/2011/11/14/chapter-twenty-four-the-poisoned-apple/ It brought a lot of comfort and understanding to me personally when I read it a long time ago as it did today, when I re-read it once again.
Thank you zhenqing and Olesya, after reading both of your heartfelt posts I have a strong need to share my own newly discovered program regarding my mother. And I would like to say that I've only skimmed this thread a few times but today I will make a point to read this thread thoroughly.

It was just recently that I reunited with my mother and older sister after leaving home at the age of 13. Over 20 years had past with zero contact, (after leaving home there was intermediate occasional contact) for the first 10 yrs., so I'm not counting those years. My point being, all those years I had forgotten "why" I left home so young. I thought it was because I was a rebellious, uncontrollable young girl. But after getting on with my life the "reason" for leaving home never was something I sat around and thought about rarely if ever. It just became who I was. Until recently when I had the opportunity to reunite with my older sister and my mother, did I finally realize what truly prompted me to flee for freedom at such a tender young age.

After reuniting, and 5 months of constant contact, ie, daily phone calls lasting hours and six in-person visits lasting between four through ten day periods, true colors started shining through. I realized from my current studies into psychopathic and narcissistic pathology I was dealing with a psychopath (my mother) and a narcissist (my sister). I can tick every box for both of them. As a child, my mother had distinctly defined my personality as abnormal and did her best to label me with many undesirable character traits, a burden I carried throughout childhood. Although not brutal, the day to day life was what you'd expect of living under the same roof with a psychopath. She installed plenty of fears about myself, and life in general, including creating dissension among all of my siblings. When recently she started again slowly trying to convince me that I was the same little girl with those terrible personality flaws she had defined years ago, is when I took a step back and started to analyze the situation. Especially in light of the fact that I had given her no reason at all to come to those conclusions. To the contrary, I was in the process of helping her financially, emotionally, physically and in anyway that I could. I was thrilled to be in contact with her again. My communication was open, positive, loving & kind. I took time to express my love for her in the way of poems and many other ways expressing my love for her and making up for lost time. Never did I give her a reason to be unhappy with me. On her own account, she couldn't hold back her pathological behavior any more. She apparently saw me as a great empathy candidate and started to spin her web. When she started belittling me and bringing up those fallacies she created for me years ago, it was glaringly obvious to me she was wrong, and not only wrong but was purposely trying to manipulate and deceive me. It was then that I realized what I had experienced as a child was wrong. It turns out, there was good reason why I left home when I did. Through my work on myself throughout the years I had not only released those ingrained fallacies from childhood, I have released most of my "real" bad traits and worked through all my many lessons in life up to this point. This, with my new exploration into Psychopathy & Narcissism, I was able to put the pieces together. After putting this together I was easily able to lay to rest the doubts I was having about my sister.

What I discovered is that my mother was a program put in place to block and hinder my spiritual growth.
I was then able to terminate that program with the same visualization method that I use to terminate any/all programs that I find in my life.
 
This has been sitting in the drafts section for a little while but have been peeling at myriad layers of programs... very interesting things cropping up.

One of the major things that caught my attention was taking things at face value - in a somewhat materialistic way. That is, wanting things to reach completion, or my needs to be met, instantaneously & accurately... or perfectly, exactly as I envisioned yet in an extremely rigid, one-track mind manner which causes impatience & emotional impudence. It is by & large black & white, extremist all or nothing thinking, or some manifestation of splitting - if I saw others who I thought "looked" or "sounded" happy/good/ideal, then I'd start thinking that everything must be perfect for them.

For example, if whilst sat on a bus I saw someone who according to perception had something that I, in that moment, deceive myself could make me happy/I didn't agree with - an instantaneous reaction would be towards one extreme or the other. Similar to what the phenomena of WYSIATI (what you see is all there is) as explained in the book Thinking, Fast and Slow, my mind before seemed incapable of perceiving that whatever I was seeing wasn't the big picture.

In other words, it doesn't take into account the process - how they got to where they are, their associations or beliefs... a judgement is reached based on exterior postulations without taking context into consideration. A form of internal considering osit.

Another example is clothes or money, or possessions/values in a generic sense. I used to have trouble giving up material possessions, or throwing anything away, "just in case" I needed it at some future convenience. Being overwhelmed by what is visually, & via other sensory modals, or aesthetically present that whatever was in my mind before is virtually not extant. So maybe difficulties in discerning psychological reality in the outer world? As if it passes over my head completely that things take place in procession, or progression (i.e. mental activity takes place faster than physical activity, so when things don't "happen" as fast on the physical level, I'd get perplexed because it ran pretty smoothly mentally - didn't take into account glitches I guess haha), that others aren't internally similar &/or that "acting as if" doesn't then (necessarily) automatically become so or translate to "real".

Addressing wrong causes to certain effects, one of the ways the brain tries to deal with incomprehensible matters. Then there was "thinking things had to be a certain way" (think OCD & you're pretty warm) - not that I had rituals, I just stuck to same old ways or, when I did do something new, it was radically different enough to intrigue me to at the "wanting things to reach completion instantaneously & accurately/perfectly" in accordance with what was held in high regard momentarily. The internal attitude remained the same regardless.

It usually becomes worse when I feel isolated - it was rare for me to intersperse when fixated on getting this one thing done as imagined & it wasn't typically something I would moot due to past experiences of trying to do so. I feel like a lot of my speech (verbal) is automatic, soaked up osmotically or diffusely through movies, hearing others from a peripheral standpoint & fails ostensibly at portraying how I feel or what's going on inside, if I could find the words myself to depict them - inappropriate or disproportional judgement of the weight of my words or actions.

Say, in the past, whatever was going on inside would come out, but I was as blind as a bat to its occurrence hence incapable of discerning - if angry/emotional, it came out in my voice, but I wouldn't be aware of "reacting" per se unless someone else pointed such out to me. That's if I knew I was angry/emotional to begin with..?

Then there's the realisation of how pathological my mother's view of reality is as significant change occurred for me [not exclusively me but how that was experienced by others differed] physically, mentally & emotionally when my dad left in a state of depression &, after severe initial resistance, she became an authority figure... or THE authority figure in my life.

Clinging onto things might be related to a history of poverty yet there's more to it than that. There is quite a bit I could say on all of this; been lackadaisical with writing (journal & generally) recently due to change, rolling & tumbling & time. Main things are more or less covered.

Jasmine said:
After reuniting, and 5 months of constant contact, ie, daily phone calls lasting hours and six in-person visits lasting between four through ten day periods, true colors started shining through. I realized from my current studies into psychopathic and narcissistic pathology I was dealing with a psychopath (my mother) and a narcissist (my sister). I can tick every box for both of them. As a child, my mother had distinctly defined my personality as abnormal and did her best to label me with many undesirable character traits, a burden I carried throughout childhood. Although not brutal, the day to day life was what you'd expect of living under the same roof with a psychopath. She installed plenty of fears about myself, and life in general, including creating dissension among all of my siblings. When recently she started again slowly trying to convince me that I was the same little girl with those terrible personality flaws she had defined years ago, is when I took a step back and started to analyze the situation. Especially in light of the fact that I had given her no reason at all to come to those conclusions. To the contrary, I was in the process of helping her financially, emotionally, physically and in anyway that I could. I was thrilled to be in contact with her again. My communication was open, positive, loving & kind. I took time to express my love for her in the way of poems and many other ways expressing my love for her and making up for lost time. Never did I give her a reason to be unhappy with me. On her own account, she couldn't hold back her pathological behavior any more. She apparently saw me as a great empathy candidate and started to spin her web. When she started belittling me and bringing up those fallacies she created for me years ago, it was glaringly obvious to me she was wrong, and not only wrong but was purposely trying to manipulate and deceive me. It was then that I realized what I had experienced as a child was wrong. It turns out, there was good reason why I left home when I did. Through my work on myself throughout the years I had not only released those ingrained fallacies from childhood, I have released most of my "real" bad traits and worked through all my many lessons in life up to this point. This, with my new exploration into Psychopathy & Narcissism, I was able to put the pieces together. After putting this together I was easily able to lay to rest the doubts I was having about my sister.

What I discovered is that my mother was a program put in place to block and hinder my spiritual growth.
I was then able to terminate that program with the same visualization method that I use to terminate any/all programs that I find in my life.

What you've written above Jasmine is very similar to my experiences with my own mother.
A few times I ran away from home. Even when I was living here I couldn't stay here for more than however many nights a week (would stay out late, over a friend's etc.) because it was unbearable. She had done something similar to other people in life no doubt but it wasn't something I couldn't see as she was always trying to vector people onto her side of the field.

With more information/passing time, more evidence pointing to serious deformities, it is getting harder to convince myself that my mother isn't much more than a "narcissistic mother". If I hadn't had the chance to get away from her for an extended period of time & then move out subsequent to that, I'm not sure whether I'd be alive - which just emphasises the importance of awareness/knowledge on the topic.
 
One program that has been ruining my relationships for 10 years is the one 'Miss Isness' has mentioned here in this thread back in 2007: "I can only be free if I am alone". Unfortunately she seems not to have posted anything after December 2008, so I am not sure if she's still here.
Your partner or the people you live together with become totally irritating under the influence of this program. They are basically reduced to a 'disturbing factor' in your life. It is also accompanied by romantic visions of a life lived alone. What's worse is that when you really get some time alone (a few weeks), you feel so well, that you get even more stuck in your illusion. I gave up my first relationship under the influence of this program, and it took half a year until I started to long for a partner again, which showed the transient nature of the feelings generated by this program.
 
SMM said:
What you've written above Jasmine is very similar to my experiences with my own mother.
A few times I ran away from home. Even when I was living here I couldn't stay here for more than however many nights a week (would stay out late, over a friend's etc.) because it was unbearable. She had done something similar to other people in life no doubt but it wasn't something I couldn't see as she was always trying to vector people onto her side of the field.

With more information/passing time, more evidence pointing to serious deformities, it is getting harder to convince myself that my mother isn't much more than a "narcissistic mother". If I hadn't had the chance to get away from her for an extended period of time & then move out subsequent to that, I'm not sure whether I'd be alive - which just emphasises the importance of awareness/knowledge on the topic.

Hi SMM, thanks for sharing that, it does sound like you had a similar experience, and I'm sorry to hear it. I definitely relate to everything you said. Thankfully we both got out when we did! Although my 4 other siblings made it out "alive", 3 of them will not speak to her and have nothing to do with her. One sister, who has a very big compassionate heart helps her financially, sends her food and other things and talks to her a few times a month. But even though I admire my sister for that there's definitely a feeding cycle going on there, on both sides. It's kinda like my mother "groomed" her for that position. She had always treated her a little differently than the rest, as to protect her feeding source.

When I saw my mother for who she really was, it wasn't an easy choice of how to handle it. I new I had zero tolerance for a psychopath in my life. But I was almost hoping I could help her from a distance in some capacity like my sister was doing. However, after much consideration I took the advice of the literature and knowledge I had gained on the subject, and made the decision to cut the ties completely. Now I'm positive I made the right decision.
 
Jasmine said:
SMM said:
What you've written above Jasmine is very similar to my experiences with my own mother.
A few times I ran away from home. Even when I was living here I couldn't stay here for more than however many nights a week (would stay out late, over a friend's etc.) because it was unbearable. She had done something similar to other people in life no doubt but it wasn't something I couldn't see as she was always trying to vector people onto her side of the field.

With more information/passing time, more evidence pointing to serious deformities, it is getting harder to convince myself that my mother isn't much more than a "narcissistic mother". If I hadn't had the chance to get away from her for an extended period of time & then move out subsequent to that, I'm not sure whether I'd be alive - which just emphasises the importance of awareness/knowledge on the topic.

Hi SMM, thanks for sharing that, it does sound like you had a similar experience, and I'm sorry to hear it. I definitely relate to everything you said. Thankfully we both got out when we did! Although my 4 other siblings made it out "alive", 3 of them will not speak to her and have nothing to do with her. One sister, who has a very big compassionate heart helps her financially, sends her food and other things and talks to her a few times a month. But even though I admire my sister for that there's definitely a feeding cycle going on there, on both sides. It's kinda like my mother "groomed" her for that position. She had always treated her a little differently than the rest, as to protect her feeding source.

When I saw my mother for who she really was, it wasn't an easy choice of how to handle it. I new I had zero tolerance for a psychopath in my life. But I was almost hoping I could help her from a distance in some capacity like my sister was doing. However, after much consideration I took the advice of the literature and knowledge I had gained on the subject, and made the decision to cut the ties completely. Now I'm positive I made the right decision.

Thank you all for your sharing your thoughts and your stories. Just this morning I had a realization what was the crux of the matter in doing real work for me was personally. It's just clicked. I understood that my whole life I wasn't so much feeling as being 'bad', instead, I was feeling like an orphan. I never had a mother and I never had a father. I was an orphan, until some good people found me like a stray dog I was, and helped me to gain real knowledge and understanding with all their might, and I'm eternally grateful to all of them. :love: This is love, Real Love! And I hope this process of continuos learning is well on it way.

Just 10 day ago or so, I got a text message from my friend L. in Kiev, telling me that my mother's husband had died. He had bladder cancer in terminal stage, so the operation and consequents treatments, radiation to be precise, didn't cure him. I told my mother about the dangers of radiation treatment, but her husband only wanted to do what the doctors were telling him. And so he did, and as result of it, he died. No surprise here! When I first learned the news about the seriousness of his illness, my helping program kicked in. I talked to some of my friends (one of them, R. had the same illness many years before, but survived) trying to arrange help for my mother, and told my mother what I've learned about post-operative treatment and possible complications. I asked my friend L. to help my mother with finding another doctor and putting him in a hospital. When I learned that he died, I talked to my mother again, and that put me through a real turmoil. I was thinking why she did so much for him during his illness and their life together, although he treated her very badly during their marriage, but she never did anything even remotely close for me? Then, I started thinking a lot about my father, and how much I missed in my life after I read his letters to my mother. And I was in morning. I know now, that what I was mourning was me. I was mourning for the child who was living her life completely alone and uncared for. All my runaway emotions, pain, being offended by someone's "harsh' comments, childish tantrums, anger, passive-aggressive behavior towards others, absence of trust or misplacement of trust where it didn't belong, this sense of hopelessness, fear, inability to change my life, all of it stems from my 'relationships' with my mother. Her constant meed for me to solve her problems, to help her since I was very young, her shaming and blaming her unhappiness on me: whether I did do or didn't do, made me feel so guilty and ashamed of myself. All my bad decisions (my marriages, my moving into places with people where I didn't have a real sense of belonging, i.e. trying to escape something), giving in, doing something when someone 'asked' without really being sure and agreeing to do it anyway), helping where help is actually wasn't needed, all lapses in judgement, stem from this. It was an empathy trap! And that's Enough! No more! I was in mourning all my life. Enough! I need to start living! That's all!

Thank you all once again for all you help. :love:
 
Prometeo said:
Well I've been noticing that when I feel the environment or the place i'm in is too stressed, I tend to say jokes and behave a little childish just to spark up people, or to take out stress, sometimes it works and sometimes it makes people angry at me. I want to work on it, though I don't know if I really need to.

It seems to me that the program you describe has its roots in childhood. Could you describe the kinds of situations that you feel are too stressed?
 
One program I have noticed in myself I'll call the "don't embarrass me" program. I will call it this because as a child, when my family and I would go out in public(shopping, to a restaurant, to a movie theater, etc.), my mother would say to us "don't embarrass me", and expect politeness and manners, quiet, no talking out of turn, no arguing, and no playfulness(she did not want us behaving like children). On one occasion I remember(this may have happened more than once), we left a restaurant for not being able to decide on what to eat, and went without dinner that night. A second occasion in which my mother stated,"I'll stop this car", when my sister and I were arguing, resulted in her actually stopping the car on the side of the road for ten minutes. It was effective in stopping the arguing. The positive side of this may be the learning of good manners, but perhaps it was taken too far.

I suppose this is a fairly average experience for a child, a typical punishment, so that is most likely not what caused the program. I think the program exists because she would say those words,"don't embarrass me", each time we left the home. Then, when she would say that she was embarrassed, the feeling of shame would "stick". The feeling of shame is most likely to be what has reinforced the program.

This program, although I am mindful of it, is apparent when I go somewhere with my significant other and they say something(to an employee of wherever we happen to be, or to a mutual friend) that I "feel" is inappropriate. I then tell them "that's inappropriate" or that I would prefer they do not tell someone something I would consider to be private or too personal. In some instances I can see I may just be being "too touchy" or sensitive about a particular subject or situation.

A display of anger by my significant other also results in a slight triggering of the program, when their anger seems out of proportion to the action that has caused it. I realize I should just let it go, and usually do, but the program is still there. The "don't embarrass me" program may be related to a "be nice" program, or may be two separate programs that have become interrelated over time.

I will be working on correcting this, now that I recognize it.
 
The most difficult program to defeat for me is 'not good enough' program.
I have learned it through my childhood by trying to attract my parents attention by doing everything perfect
and as they say - of course I could never reach the point to get their approval or any kind of loving /caring expression.
Only more and more demands and criticism..

They were punishing me with calling me names, tellin me I'm stupid and that nowone will ever love me cause of that,
and that I will never achieve anything in my life etc...

I couldn't finish my faculty because I was frozen of fear every time I had to go to some exam or talk to some teacher.
I was studing for exams so hard and then give up just before cause I was convinced I'm don't know enough - I'm not
good enough.
The same was with getting my drivers licence, with getting married, with participating in this forum,...always fear of unacceptance
from someone very important or loved by.

My husband is a first person ever who made me realize that I must learn to accept myself and to stick up for, give space and time
to find out what I really want in life and what am I good at, without any expectations or some big sirious criticism.
Through his acceptance and love I've got some selfconfidence at last and learned difference betwen constructive (objective) critic
and malicious abusive one without my alarm goes off (run and hide mode ) every time

But definitly, 4th Way and some psychology books + EE helped tremendously... so now I'm able to open myself more and more to
everyday situations / problems and have courage to deal with life. To be active, to achieve something and to defend myself from something or someone.
That is my biggest victory but there are also many 'little programs' running in my subconsciousness waithing for me to nail them.
Thanks for your stories / insights everyone - it is great help on the way
 
I've just realized that I've been working and overcoming a program that was deeply instilled in me in childhood, that I was alone, no one would help me and I had to do everything alone. My dog, Sara, suddenly took ill yesterday and I have discovered all of the help that is available to me and all of the people who are helping through a difficult time. I checked on the forum for members dealing with the same issue, and found valuable information and support. A friend has been sending Reiki energy to both of us. The animal communicator I call on for help has been here for me. And my vet, who is open to this kind of help is being wonderfully helpful. And Sara herself, my dog. It lightens the load of worry and anxiety and is making a world of difference in dealing with helping her recover.

It was a huge lie I was programmed with and the truth is so freeing and lightens the whole situation. What a marvelous lesson, and also in my ability to trust. Sara has been my greatest teacher in learning about trust and unconditional love.
 
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