Amanda Knox - guilty or innocent?

It also may be this 'American' attitude, say towards celebrity and exposure that explains, why - to me - she appeared to enjoy that Diane Sawyer interview. Or at least feeling 'overwhelmed' to be in front of such a well known face etc.. forgetting why she's actually there.

Before this post i presumed she was guilty, but i suspect the UK press collaborated in some choreographed manner as per (my thoughts) on the Madeleine Mccann case.

And that she didn't know Kircher, combined with her new status, and freedom; could partly explain why she did seem to just enjoy herself.
 
Laura said:
This is going to be a long post. About half-way through it, I thought about turning it into an article for SOTT, but decided I'd run it past all of you first.

Imho Laura, you should definitely turn this into an article for SOTT.
 
Redrock12 said:
Laura said:
This is going to be a long post. About half-way through it, I thought about turning it into an article for SOTT, but decided I'd run it past all of you first.

Imho Laura, you should definitely turn this into an article for SOTT.

Definitely. If possible, I think it should be slightly amended for the casual reader (forum members & SOTT regulars can handle long & very detailed articles) due to the importance not only of the emotion driven psychological narrative, but I feel that a circumspect view is required (of course for us but the casual readers mainly) to help stir... something in certain readers. I never can quite fathom how people are turned off from detailed information, especially when concerning serious issues for them.. "oh it's too long", "just give me the short version", (me) "there's isn't one because of..." (person's attention visibly wanes, fidgets, "yeah... uh-huh...")
 
Problem is, it is casual readers who don't take the trouble to learn the details, that jump to conclusions. I'd have to think about how to condense a bunch of that into a sentence or two. And you know I don't like condensing! I like MORE FOOTNOTES!
 
this is the link of an Italian lawyer who deals with red rose's crimes, his mentor was Gabriella Carlizzi, this lawyer has been working for years to ritual killings but his blog is unfortunately only in Italian, he talks about merkel,charles manson, monster florence' s case etc.
http://paolofranceschetti.blogspot.it/2011/08/ricordo-di-gabriella-carlizzi.html
 
marina said:
this is the link of an Italian lawyer who deals with red rose's crimes, his mentor was Gabriella Carlizzi, this lawyer has been working for years to ritual killings but his blog is unfortunately only in Italian, he talks about merkel,charles manson, monster florence' s case etc.
http://paolofranceschetti.blogspot.it/2011/08/ricordo-di-gabriella-carlizzi.html

All these people are doing is muddying the waters and making research into psychopathy and pedophiles in high places look ridiculous and improbable.

But then, maybe that's their job.

ADDED: And that's not to say that maybe SOME of them fancy themselves Satanists or do really weird stuff. But to get carried away with wild conspiracy theories everywhere you look only serves the criminals. It reminds me of an exchange with the Cs back in 1999. Well, of course, Preston and others would be repulsed by the fact that we have these conversations with "ourselves in the future", but that's only because he hasn't taken the time to carefully examine paranormal phenomena. And why? Because of people like Carlizzi and so many others who make the entire topic look ridiculous. Anyway, here's the exchange with the significant remark in bold:

Q: We have a number of issues to deal with this evening; the first one is the subject of Flight 990. There have been a number of scenarios suggested by the media and other sources on the internet. One of them says that the autopilot was disengaged BEFORE the plane began to dive. Is this the case?

A: No. Plane was disturbed from flight path by windburst, therefore, autopilot was disengaged in order to better combat problem.

Q: There has been a big controversy going on. One of the contributors to this controversy was Ed Dames who, on the Art Bell show, claimed that his organization "remote viewed" the situation and that there had been a fight in the cockpit. This claim was made, I believe, before the flight data recorders were retrieved. So, this was a scenario that the media picked up. Then, after one of the recorders was found, for a short while, this idea was popular, because it seemed to explain the crazy behavior of the aircraft. But then the voice recorder was found, and there was no real evidence to support the "fight" scenario, but there was a sort of prayerful exclamation heard, being made by the co-pilot who was, apparently alone in the cockpit when the activity began. Then, the pilot returned and there were sounds of desperate activity and so forth, so the next scenario proposed was that the co-pilot had decided to commit suicide in a big way. As a result of this Ed Dames episode on Art Bell, followed by the NTSB and FBI trying to fit the clues to Dames' scenario, there is now the suggestion making the rounds of the internet rumor mongers that Ed Dames is in the employ of the "powers that be," and that he deliberately planted this story so that they could then come along and validate it to give him more credibility so that he would be in place to plant more and greater rumors and stories of the disinformation variety. Is that the case? Did Ed Dames and his group accurately remote view the cockpit of Flight 990?

A: No. Ed was hoping for a "hit."

Q: So, Ed Dames is NOT in the employ of the "Powers that be?"

A: No.

Q: Was the co-pilot suicidal?

A: No.

Q: So, what he said was the equivalent of "Oh my God!" or something?

A: Close.

Q: Now, I have another correspondent who was on a beach about a hundred miles west of the crash site. This individual was with a companion and they both saw an orange glow in the direction of the crash at approximately the time of the event. This orange glow was, in her opinion, anomalous, and quickly disappeared. Was what was seen by my correspondent an effect of this plane crash?

A: Possibly linked, but not likely.

Q: Well, the question now comes about the nature of the "windburst." You previously said about this that "mysteries are subjective." Did you mean to imply that we could have or should have followed up with questions about the windburst itself?

A: No, these things happen. Sometimes a fault in autopilot analog computer causes system to fail to adjust properly, thus causing an attitude aberration in wingtips. Planes can dive suddenly and inexplicably. Refer to April 1979, Flint Michigan, TWA flight nonstop from New York to Minneapolis. Quick pilot reaction saved that one, but it was close, very close! Included same "g-force" anomalies, i.e. passengers floating out of their seats, etc. Suggest you look this up on internet. Aircraft manufacturers jealously protect their "turf." 1999 incident involved Boeing 767, 1979 incident was a 727. At root is the fact that Boeing is feeling Airbus Industrie Inc. nipping at its heels. It is all that 3rd density STS love of money stuff, you know!

Q: (A) Well, about this windburst, was there some dimensional phenomenon or trans-density window as we have suggested on our site? (L) Was it an ordinary windburst? I think I have heard that it is impossible to have a windburst at that altitude.

A: Not "ordinary," but not trans-density, or dimensional. It was a Jetstream "eddy."

Q: So, there were no rays, beams, microwaves, trans-density or dimensional windows, weird, anomalous, conspiratorial event going on here?

A: No, no, no, no, no!

Q: It was just a terrible tragedy. The pilots fought as hard as they could to save the plane, but were unable to do so, and the bottom line is a lot of people died?

A: Yes, but as is common in all-out emergencies, the human factor was not "perfect." Pilots were working at cross purposes, but not intentionally! Look up the data on the 1979 case and point this out to the conspiracy thirsty correspondents!

Q: Next item on the agenda: the loss of the new Mars probe. As of the latest I heard, it had still not "called home." Is the Mars probe lost?

A: Not lost, just partly dysfunctional.

Q: Why is it dysfunctional? Or partly dysfunctional?

A: Rocky surface, misallignment of antennae, slight damage to communications package. may still be retrievable if technicians can locate proper backup software inlet.

Q: So, that is the advice to try to save the mission?

A: Yes.

Q: Anything else?

A: No.

Q: So, there is no conspiracy there, either?

A: It is just as dangerous and just as useless to "see" conspiracy in everything s it is to "see" conspiracy in nothing. We tire of conspiracy "buffs." They are nutty, and serve as perfect false sponsors to those who really DO seek to conduct widespread mental/psychic manipulations and control.
 
For those interested, the "April 1979, Flint Michigan, TWA flight nonstop from New York to Minneapolis" referred to above, appears to have been a coverup by Boeing in league with NTSB to blame the pilots for what was a mechanical fault. Here's an investigative report aired in the 80s that more or less exposed this cover up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYHfrk6EVHU

It's another example of vested interests manufacturing 'evidence' to serve their own interests at the expense of the innocent and the truth.
 
Laura said:
Problem is, it is casual readers who don't take the trouble to learn the details, that jump to conclusions. I'd have to think about how to condense a bunch of that into a sentence or two. And you know I don't like condensing! I like MORE FOOTNOTES!

I hope you don't mean that. I for one, knew very little about this case other than the relentless media tripe which was totally bombastic. It depends on who you're directing the article towards. When I think of SOTT articles I normally think about the casual reader who might have enough interest in various topics, topics that may grant access to other areas that trigger some unconscious part of themselves, a hidden talent or revived goal, that kind of thing.

Basically, there maybe some "stragglers" out there, I feel that I was once one ten years ago, I wouldn't have thought I could be doing all this learning & engage with like-minded people. So something not too short (don't want to give the impression that this stuff is easy to discern) but not too long or it could come across as verbose, judging from what I've seen some folks seem scared of word sequences, a "friendly" approach (not too soft, not too hard) maybe best, something I've been practicing with non-forum people for a few years.

Anyhoo, here's the highlight reel from your post that in my opinion, might help.

Laura said:
There are four main threads in the book: 1) the murders; 2) the completely bizarre world of Italian officialdom; 3) the activities of the journalist, Mario Spezi; 4) the involvement of Douglas Preston himself.

Laura said:
Regarding the murders, at one point, the Italian police/prosecutor, request a profile from the FBI's BSU. The results of this profile are included in the book and actually do describe accurately an individual who, in the opinion of Preston and Spezi, IS the killer. However, the Italian police/prosecutor just dump this profile to the side as useless and go after all kinds of peripheral individuals - and even some totally unrelated individuals - ruining lives, putting people in prison, subjecting them to horrendous interrogations, obviously buying witnesses, planting false evidence, and more.


The collusion, the corruption, the bizarre mindset of Italian officialdom can't be emphasized enough I think. The effects on the population is palpable. With a nudge of course.

Respecting the bizarre world of Italian officialdom, while reading all this, I started having an intense feeling of deja vu... Apparently, the chief inspector Michele Guittari and the prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini (the latter apparently influencing the former) concocted the theory that behind the Monster killings was a satanic cult composed of a cabal of wealthy and powerful people who occupied the highest positions in society: business, law, medicine, etc. These individuals hired the killers (innocent dupes set up by Guittari and Mignini) to obtain body parts for their black masses.

Later on, as the case proceeded, it became obvious where Mignini was getting his ideas: from an online conspiracy theorist named Gabriella Carlizzi. Preston writes about Lizard Woman (for such she is):

This looks tricky. The first paragraph is necessary for context, it also adds weight to the dark world of "upper level" paedophilia & snuff movies (do not get me started on that) which are barely comprehensible to the average person, here the subjective pejorative factor rears its ugly head as it ties in with psychopathy & the nature-nurture dichotomy. This leads into the "almost human" (sub-species, separate species) concept which is like saying that you're "antisemitic" (in many mangled minds) or some crap. The conspiracy theorist card will probably be flung on the table like an ace, the joker in the pack will always be that lizard ("lizzies") thing - "the lizards did it!" - & you've got enough bother from that.

Laura said:
Anyway, this very much reminded me of the influence internet defamation had on the Police Judiciare in Toulouse - and possibly the prosecutor of the department wherein we live. The "crime" of which we were accused - being a dangerous "secte" - is obviously not as serious as the string of murders attributed to the Monster of Florence, but I think you can see where such accusations COULD lead! And, of course, during that investigation we were subjected to, I had a very difficult time really grokking how these supposedly intelligent, logical, clear thinking French officials could be so gullible and actually initiate and base an investigation on such nonsense and drivel. I mean, it literally boggles the mind. And no matter what we said then, and later during the Fiscal audit, no matter how many documents we provided, how much proof we pointed to, it literally made no difference. It was assumed that we were just really good at covering our tracks and hiding our TRUE activities. Preston, it seems, came up against the same realization about the Italians which caused me to reflect on the similarities between the Italians and French. What is interesting in Preston's story was the explanation he received from no less a person than Count Niccolo Capponi.

I dunno, this can show that you not only have knowledge of this type of thing, you also have an understanding. Of course it can go the other way too. All that "cult" B.S. becomes hazardous with talks of giant reptiles, conspiracy nutters, & crazy people leading normal people astray for crazy purposes, I can imagine the yarn that could be spun!

The rest of the quoted parts of that post are massive especially what the count had to say. This is like an accusatory tone to the mind of a disturbed individual (or a finger being jabbed in the chest) depending on their nationality, even those not disturbed may not like it but they're not supposed to anyway, so whatever. "Dietrologia" and all the rest is the crux as far as I can see, this is key & fundamental to the Knox case & all others so I think it's best to build around that. Reading that was like reading PP or any number of the recommended reading material, some things you're aware of but you just can't quite verbalize them, until their shown in a certain way, a certain light.

All that "Mediterranean concept of (saving) face" nonsense is widespread in way to many cultures & that needs to be exposed for the pathological inanity that it is. That country has states within states, the Vatican, this lot, & there's another that I can't remember right now (I was watching a documentary or reading some report in the last few days that showed this, I'll have to retrace my steps to know) but it's just as bad. Bloody hell.
 
Laura said:
Gaby said:
This is absolutely horrifying :O I actually do hope they make a movie with that Preston as the scriptwriter, so the whole world can know how completely backwards and dangerous the Italian judicial system really is.

I really do dislike their "furbo" pride... I hate that word! Some pull it to anybody trying to make a reasonable point, anyone using common sense or trying to make their rights or privacy respected.

You see, Douglas, an Italian must always appear to be furbo. You don't have an English equivalent for that marvelous word. It means a person who is wily and cunning, who knows which way the wind is blowing, who can fool you but never be fooled himself. Everyone in Italy wants to believe the worst of others so they don't end up looking gullible. Above all, they want to be seen as furbo.

And in trying to be "furbi", they are looking like the most imbecilic and paranoid culture among many around the world...

Yup. It's that typical hubris of the pathological or pathologized individual. I actually think it rather relates to hystericization of society which is a consequence of habitual psychologials selection and substitution.

When the First World War broke out, young officers danced and sang on the streets of Vienna: “Krieg, Krieg, Krieg! Es wird ein schoener Krieg ...”. While visiting Upper Austria in 1978, I decided to drop in on the local parson, who was in his seventies by then. When I told him about myself, I suddenly realized he thought I was lying and inventing pretty stories. He subjected my statements to psychological analysis, based on this unassailable assumption and attempted to convince me that his morals were lofty. When I complained to a friend of mine about this, he was amused: “As a psychologist, you were extremely lucky to catch the survival of authentic Austrian talk (die oesterreichische Rede). We young ones have been incapable of demonstrating it to you even if we wanted to simulate it.”

In the European languages, “Austrian talk” has become the common descriptive term for paralogistic discourse. Many people using this term nowadays are unaware of its origin. Within the context of maximum hysterical intensity in Europe at the time, the authentic article represented a typical product of conversive thinking: subconscious selection and substitution of data leading to chronic avoidance of the crux of the matter. In the same manner, the reflex assumption that every speaker is lying is an indication of the hysterical anti-culture of mendacity, within which telling the truth becomes “immoral”.

That era of hysterical regression gave birth to the great war and the great revolution which extended into Fascism, Hitlerism, and the tragedy of the Second World War.


FWIW, this "furbo" thing reminded me of the expression "kombina", which I heard a lot when I was in Israel back in the days. It's somehow an ideal and a way of life there - I found the following description on the net, which is pretty accurate, I think:
Today’s Exclusive term is the all-Israeli “kombina.” Is this Hebrew? But of course not. Like many other useful and even essential expressions in Israel, it is borrowed from another language. “Kombina” can be found in Esperanto, but also Russian and Bulgarian, with roughly the same basic meaning: a way to organize and get things easily.

In Israel this word, alongside this original meaning, has developed some other, slightly diverse meanings and can even perform as a verb (‘lekamben’). Kombina can be a way to get around things (not necessarily to “screw the system”), or to help someone (or oneself) get a promotion or other things easily/for free with their persuasive skills. It can also be read in a more negative manner, when using these same persuasive skills to mislead or to make someone act against their common sense (think of abuse of cheap work labor like foreign workers who do not speak the language and are fully dependent on their local employers, or the exploit of tourists who are willing to pay 10 times more than the regular price). “They made a kombina on my expense!”
_https://www.facebook.com/OccupyIsrael/posts/498408556852848

I agree that these kinds of words/concepts are symptoms of a large-scale internalized pathology.

Sorry for going a bit OT.
 
Redrock12 said:
Laura said:
This is going to be a long post. About half-way through it, I thought about turning it into an article for SOTT, but decided I'd run it past all of you first.

Imho Laura, you should definitely turn this into an article for SOTT.

I agree.

It is so important to have the truth out there. I for one have changed my opinion of Amanda Knox 180 degrees after reading this thread and I am sure lots of people still follow her case and may change their opinion as well, based on the facts.

Those journalists like mr. Spezi and Preston and history professor Capponi and others are real jewels, IMO. And so are you, Laura.

I do hope that the Kercher family will find closure, but as long as they believe that Amanda is guilty they will be haunted by the past, OSIT. Maybe they find it easier to believe that the murder of their daughter is an open and shut case, for having to admit to oneself that one has believed the lies of the media and the prosecutor for years must be very painful (for the brain).

I think that Amanda was lucky in the sense that her family was right behind her every step of the way. They did all they could, even hired a public relations firm, which I thought was very wise.
 
H-kqge, you have a pretty good handle on how you think it ought to be presented. So, perhaps you would act as an editor and whip it into shape for more public presentation?
 
I guess that Mr. Mignini has also edited out his name from the Italian wiki page on the Meredith Kercher case. This all so powerful GIP is really scary. It looks he's not so powerful outside Italy after all, but I'm pretty sure he'll sue anyone who's going mainstream on him in any way.

He's not mentioned here:
_http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omicidio_di_Meredith_Kercher

Its wiki counterpart in English, obviously shows up his name:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher

I quote all of the above written by Laura. The whole scenario is totally sick!

News: Raffaele Sollecito is going to be interviewed for the 2nd time in Italy on Linea Gialla, a TV show, tonight 25 February 2014.

_http://www.la7.it/linea-gialla
 
marina said:
this is the link of an Italian lawyer who deals with red rose's crimes, his mentor was Gabriella Carlizzi, this lawyer has been working for years to ritual killings but his blog is unfortunately only in Italian, he talks about merkel,charles manson, monster florence' s case etc.
http://paolofranceschetti.blogspot.it/2011/08/ricordo-di-gabriella-carlizzi.html

Hi marina. I've dug this forum and more in the last 10 years. It's the same trend of who's the most 'furbo' of All. Pretty depressing. Once in awhile you'll see some neuron firing, but it will not last long.
 
Laura said:
H-kqge, you have a pretty good handle on how you think it ought to be presented. So, perhaps you would act as an editor and whip it into shape for more public presentation?

I'll give it a go. I'm doing so right now but I would like to ask any of the SOTT editors for pointers, I haven't done this before, so I think it's better to ask for help as it'll be a focus piece with your name on it. I trust that it'll be reviewed & revised. Also where should I post it? Here?
 
H-kqge said:
Laura said:
H-kqge, you have a pretty good handle on how you think it ought to be presented. So, perhaps you would act as an editor and whip it into shape for more public presentation?

I'll give it a go. I'm doing so right now but I would like to ask any of the SOTT editors for pointers, I haven't done this before, so I think it's better to ask for help as it'll be a focus piece with your name on it. I trust that it'll be reviewed & revised. Also where should I post it? Here?

Well, generally, when I edit, if I see a place where a really nice addition fits, I add it. If I see a place where a good zinger could be added, I add it. If I see a place that could be more plainly written, I change it. If I see something that needs MORE explanation, I add it. If you do it in a doc you can track changes. Then attach it here and we can all go over it to see if it needs more expansion or contraction. Editing can be fun when you have some freedom! And you have it here.
 
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