Bad Boys

[seek10]

I also loved them 'as is' and showed them unconditional love. You can't love everyone better, but I sure tried. Did it bite me in the ass eventually? Yes. Yes it did. Do I now regret these relationships? No. I learned a lot about myself and besides, every relationship led me to who I am today. No Regrets.

It is always feels good to have positive result w.r.t kids. Curious to know how it bit you. Probably that is from others. After all, these kids are very small.

 

[Denis]

It is always feels good to have positive result w.r.t kids. Curious to know how it bit you. Probably that is from others. After all, these kids are very small.

Hi @seek10

I believe @jacygirl meant the grown up "bad boys", when she mentioned that it bit her in the ass in the past (when she gave them unconditional love).

The initial description was in the context of kids who were labeled that way, who grew up in abusive households.

 

[meadow_wind]

Yeah, it's not easy to notice it when it happens. We're not attuned to the realm of our own personal energies and life force, we aren't taught good boundaries, or what appropriate behaviour looks like because we live in a culture create by psychopaths which is designed to leave us open to be fed upon, and also encourages us feed on each other.

I can relate exactly to what you said later in your post; I've been in similar situations and had similar behaviors, and although it was years ago and I wasn't aware of this forum nor the material/books, I was somewhat lightly aware of what was happening... This whole subject is fascinating but complex. It requires lots of reading and lots of discussion.

Regarding what I've quoted, I've been itching to ask a question on the forum regarding this for a week or so, but I was waiting to do some more research/reading before asking. But now seems like a good opportunity.

At the moment, I'm reading "Secret History of the World" and I'm about at 30% according to my Kobo. I'm into the "Adamic/preadamic" subject, which relates to organic portals. I know there's a huge thread on Organic portals and many mentions in the transcripts.
So, the book mentions that pesky organic portals drain souled people.

Question: is there a difference between "feeding off each other" in regards to an organic portal feeding/draining a souled person, vs interaction between 2 souled people feeding off each other?

Which begs this question to be answered first: can 2 souled people feed off each other?

 

[Denis]

What about others here taking critical feedback Nienna? is it possible for higher ranking members to do this? Or are they exempt? These two weren't actually interacting in the way that others were accusing them of and took time to explain. And the assumptions made by others were actually not correct, as was apparent after they clarified . Yet no one wants to admit this.. No one wants to own up that they made a wrong judgement which is so easy to do online.

Seams there's one rule for high ranking people here and another for others, that others have to accept when they are wrong, but forum mods etc don't. That wasn't damage limitation to me , it was what was actually happening, they both took the time to explain after being publicly shamed for just having a conversion.

I was actually enjoying reading this before it got cut off and it didn't come across as flirting, i can see how it could but that was just one perception and wasnt the first one that came to mind. If the forum isn't a chat room then okay, but its also a natural tendency for people to wanna bond and chat, so its kind of normal too so try to understand that also. So what is Networking then Alejo? Is it only the high ranking members who are given the privilege of deciding what networking is? Why not reach a consensus together. Whats wrong with just talking and laughing for the sake of it? To bond and get to know each other is intrinsic to networking imo, it depends on your perception.
It didn't come across as ego feeding either. To me It came across like two people who were giving each other a boost and some support/encouragement.

What defines "higher quality " posts? If that's what people think then it totally puts me off posting as I'm constantly in a state of stress as to wether my posts live up to what is "expected ". Not everyone is as competent, intelligent or able to post as "high quality" as you guys, including me. Attitudes like this risk to push others out and it discourages those who aren't as capable.

"Because you were told not to use the chat room " It's like your talking to a naughy kid here from a higher place

"Comport yourself like adults " A comment that came across as pompous and self important
..

Can you not see yourselves?

Using an online forum as a chat room (which they mostly are) isn't exactly crime of the century and penalising people for this is just way too harsh .

I'm done here, I've had enough of this "holier than thou" attitude from high ranking forum members who use the bat of whatever they think is wrong (usually self importance etc) with people, to beat others with, when some of them act in this way themselves. The hippocracy is too much. I'm one too I know. . In a previous post I said about expressing truths with softness and love, well I did say "if possible" lol.
Many people would agree but are probably too scared to say anything because everyone will gang up on them complete with a chorus of "likes" from mods.

I'm logging out after this as I don't have the energy to put up that crap, ie with everyone doing that to me right now cause its frigging horrible to be on the receiving end of when its done in an un loving way, where there are so many against one person. . no matter how you wish to paint it. A mirror in a group situation probably involves people in person, not on-line where folks hardly know each other, where the person who is judged "wrong" by people who hardly know them,
gets told off, often in a hostile way, by however many people with corresponding likes. And even when the higher ranking ones are proven to be wrong they can't even admit it and do all sorts of intellectualisation to excuse themselves instead of just putting their hands up and saying "sorry I was wrong " when everyone else is expected to admit it . It comes across to me as bullying from forum members who have big egos.

Hello @Happy Poo ,

I actually agree with most that you have written here.
I think that conversations like the ones between @BHelmet and @jacygirl should be encouraged on the forum, not the other way around.

I really enjoyed reading this thread and a friendly, warm and goofy exchange between the two of them.
What's wrong with people bonding and finding the connection that, as human beings, we all long for?
What's wrong with making new friends?

I think it's so rare to find a meaningful connection with another human being, it's like finding a rare gem, and therefore i will repeat myself when i will say that these types of interactions should be highly encouraged here.
I think we all win if we just allow for a kind and respectful relationship to manifest between the two kindred souls.

Just my two cents...

 

[jacygirl]

What about others here taking critical feedback Nienna? is it possible for higher ranking members to do this? Or are they exempt? These two weren't actually interacting in the way that others were accusing them of and took time to explain. And the assumptions made by others were actually not correct, as was apparent after they clarified . Yet no one wants to admit this.. No one wants to own up that they made a wrong judgement which is so easy to do online.

Seams there's one rule for high ranking people here and another for others, that others have to accept when they are wrong, but forum mods etc don't. That wasn't damage limitation to me , it was what was actually happening, they both took the time to explain after being publicly shamed for just having a conversion.

I was actually enjoying reading this before it got cut off and it didn't come across as flirting, i can see how it could but that was just one perception and wasnt the first one that came to mind. If the forum isn't a chat room then okay, but its also a natural tendency for people to wanna bond and chat, so its kind of normal too so try to understand that also. So what is Networking then Alejo? Is it only the high ranking members who are given the privilege of deciding what networking is? Why not reach a consensus together. Whats wrong with just talking and laughing for the sake of it? To bond and get to know each other is intrinsic to networking imo, it depends on your perception.
It didn't come across as ego feeding either. To me It came across like two people who were giving each other a boost and some support/encouragement.

What defines "higher quality " posts? If that's what people think then it totally puts me off posting as I'm constantly in a state of stress as to wether my posts live up to what is "expected ". Not everyone is as competent, intelligent or able to post as "high quality" as you guys, including me. Attitudes like this risk to push others out and it discourages those who aren't as capable.

"Because you were told not to use the chat room " It's like your talking to a naughy kid here from a higher place

"Comport yourself like adults " A comment that came across as pompous and self important
..

Can you not see yourselves?

Using an online forum as a chat room (which they mostly are) isn't exactly crime of the century and penalising people for this is just way too harsh .

I'm done here, I've had enough of this "holier than thou" attitude from high ranking forum members who use the bat of whatever they think is wrong (usually self importance etc) with people, to beat others with, when some of them act in this way themselves. The hippocracy is too much. I'm one too I know. . In a previous post I said about expressing truths with softness and love, well I did say "if possible" lol.
Many people would agree but are probably too scared to say anything because everyone will gang up on them complete with a chorus of "likes" from mods.

I'm logging out after this as I don't have the energy to put up that crap, ie with everyone doing that to me right now cause its frigging horrible to be on the receiving end of when its done in an un loving way, where there are so many against one person. . no matter how you wish to paint it. A mirror in a group situation probably involves people in person, not on-line where folks hardly know each other, where the person who is judged "wrong" by people who hardly know them,
gets told off, often in a hostile way, by however many people with corresponding likes. And even when the higher ranking ones are proven to be wrong they can't even admit it and do all sorts of intellectualisation to excuse themselves instead of just putting their hands up and saying "sorry I was wrong " when everyone else is expected to admit it . It comes across to me as bullying from forum members who have big egos.

I put off entering this thread this morning because I was not sure what to expect. I would like to thank everyone for their responses, but I quickly want to address what you have said.
My initial reaction to the accusations was shock followed by a huge wave of disappointment.

I expected better, to be honest. I would have thought that the admin. here would have been more discreet and I think that someone could have messaged Helmet and I with a "knock it off, coming across as inappropriate, stick to the subject matter". But instead, I felt like I was watching a 'mob mentality' pointing at us, mostly Helmet...with a group consensus of his motives...and making a judgement call without really knowing either of us (or our life stories). It felt like 'social media' (which I don't participate in), with one person coming to a conclusion and others supporting that initial judgement of a situation.

I also was worried that there would be more criticism of Helmet, and I don't think he deserves to be shamed or have his feelings hurt. He is older than me, but I also think we are both older than many who are judging us. As someone mentioned above, I too haven't had a libido for a long time...and don't miss it at all, lol. Using humor for a moment, I'm sure some of them are rather 'grossed out' now, thinking they were witnessing a major flirt between two senior citizens.

I was debating on whether to post my feelings about how this was handled. So I went with 'honesty is the best policy' (which I live by). If I get banned, or chastised, then I will face my consequences with grace.
I do want to thank everyone, positive or negative, because I don't want to be surrounded by 'yes men'. To those who have been supportive, I love y'all for standing up for us. I have and always will, defend the underdog if I think they're being unfairly judged or treated. Much love and respect, jacy xoxo

 

[meadow_wind]

p.s. maybe the whole subject of "Feeding off each other: soul vs soul in compassion to soul vs organic portal" deserves its own thread so it could be discussed properly. Unless it's already being covered in the "Organic Portal" thread?
Mods and admin, what do you think?

 

[Wandering Star]

What about others here taking critical feedback Nienna? is it possible for higher ranking members to do this? Or are they exempt? These two weren't actually interacting in the way that others were accusing them of and took time to explain. And the assumptions made by others were actually not correct, as was apparent after they clarified . Yet no one wants to admit this.. No one wants to own up that they made a wrong judgement which is so easy to do online.

Seams there's one rule for high ranking people here and another for others, that others have to accept when they are wrong, but forum mods etc don't. That wasn't damage limitation to me , it was what was actually happening, they both took the time to explain after being publicly shamed for just having a conversion.

It's something that looks good from the outside, but obviously it's not visible from the inside.

In any case, it's very useful to crush the "personal importance" of the forum members.

I suppose that in the inner circle they do it too, but we don't find out about it.

 

[Wandering Star]

And even when the higher ranking ones are proven to be wrong they can't even admit it and do all sorts of intellectualisation to excuse themselves instead of just putting their hands up and saying "sorry I was wrong " when everyone else is expected to admit it . It comes across to me as bullying from forum members who have big egos

In all the years I've been here I've only seen Laura do it and if I remember correctly it was in the hyperbaric chamber thread.

 

[Nienna]

Using an online forum as a chat room (which they mostly are) isn't exactly crime of the century and penalising people for this is just way too harsh .

No one said it was the "crime of the century". But it is not what this forum is about. Maybe some should look back at the Forum guidelines. This is a research forum and based on the 4th Way principles. If we let one "chatroom" type thread continue, there will be more, and as I said, that is not what this forum is about.

I'm done here, I've had enough of this "holier than thou" attitude from high ranking forum members who use the bat of whatever they think is wrong (usually self importance etc) with people, to beat others with, when some of them act in this way themselves. The hippocracy is too much. I'm one too I know. . In a previous post I said about expressing truths with softness and love, well I did say "if possible" lol.
Many people would agree but are probably too scared to say anything because everyone will gang up on them complete with a chorus of "likes" from mods.

You will do what you will do. Some people's emotions get in the way of seeing what is being said as their various programs get triggered.

I think that conversations like the ones between @BHelmet and @jacygirl should be encouraged on the forum, not the other way around.

That's fine, but that's not what this forum is about. So it will not be encouraged here. A few words back and forth between some is fine, but not an entire thread.

 

[brandon]

Question: is there a difference between "feeding off each other" in regards to an organic portal feeding/draining a souled person, vs interaction between 2 souled people feeding off each other?

Which begs this question to be answered first: can 2 souled people feed off each other?

I think they can, yes. If you think about it like: in this STS realm we're in, everything feeds off something else, in order to live. But even at a less fundamental/physical level, most people are shown and taught since childhood to take part in the whole hierarchy of energetic feeding. Laura describes this nicely in The Wave:

One of the first things that happened to clue me in on some of these things was a strange incident that occurred while I was waiting to pick up my daughter from school one day. I was sitting in the car in the parking lot of the high school and watching all the kids pour out of the building and do all the things that kids do when they get out of school. I had been following this schedule for some time, and every day I was witness to these strange rites and rituals of American Teenagers.

One thing I was aware of by the many things my daughter had talked about regarding the kids of today, was the extreme factionalization, or cliques that form in schools. This has always been the case to one extent or another, but in today’s world, it seems to be even more pronounced than ever.

In my high school, it was more or less an economic division that led to a social structure and manifestation that then led to a social designation. This was pretty easy to understand and it had its reflection in real life, to some extent.

But, today, it is all different. Nothing is so clear-cut (which is not to say that the clear-cut system of the past was desirable!). The groups and cliques that form in modern high schools are something else altogether. I was fascinated by the changes and curious about why it was so, and what were the essential, underlying dynamics.

My daughter informed me about the gangs, the “Crips” or whatever, as well as the “style groups”, such as Preps, Jocks, Loadies, Gothics, and so forth. One thing that seemed clear to me was that economics had very little to do with any of it. A child of a well-to-do family was as likely to be a member of a gang, or a “Goth” as a child of a poor family. Drugs were common across all of the groupings. And, being a virgin didn’t seem to be one of the things that made you belong to one group or another as it did when I was in high school. The number of kids doing well in school also seemed to have dropped to an all-time low level.

So, there I was, watching these kids pour out of the many entrances to the school, forming groups and cliques — each gravitating to their own “kind” to hang out and exchange — what?

What were they really doing?

In the weeks prior to this event, I had been having some interactions with people who presented themselves as lightworker types, but who were later revealed through funny coincidences to be quite the opposite. Some of these events are chronicled in Soul Hackers.

Throughout these experiences I had thought of the idea of “turning off the sound” and just looking at the dynamics. They were so busy saying this and saying that and trying to make a good impression by convincing me and others of their good intentions with their words, yet when you looked at the effects they had on the lives of other people, as well as the dynamics of their own personal lives, something was just wrong! It was sort of like the saying, “They talk the talk but don’t walk the walk,” only it was much deeper and more subtle than that.

Then, one day I was reading some primate studies — you know, Jane Goodall and her chimpanzees — and I realized that the methods of observing creatures in the wild might be very useful for observing human beings. By watching and not being confused by words, one had a much better chance of actually figuring out what was going on.

So, there I sat, watching these kids and I thought about applying these primate study guides to them. I noticed some funny things about their body language; who touched whom and how and where, how they positioned themselves in relation to one another, etc. Through these maneuvers, I could actually see a sort of pecking order existed. There was always one, in every group of five to ten kids, who seemed to be the dominator.

I noticed that the dominator actually seemed to swell and stand taller and look wider and fuller after a few minutes of being fawned over, touched and so forth. There were also selected persons who the dominator would fondle in one way or another, as though tapping a battery and taking the juice out of it. Not only that, but after so many minutes, I noticed that some of the kids in the groups, would begin to slump and almost visibly shrink as though all the “juice” had gone out of them, and drift away looking tired and defeated.

Shades of The Matrix! I suddenly realized that I was watching them feed on each other! It was one of the most truly bizarre and frightening insights I have ever had. I could see that energy was being transferred from one person to another to another with the dominator getting the lion’s share at the end.

Well, that was a pretty interesting revelation. So, I started doing this a lot. I would watch people interact with one another to try to determine what the dynamics actually were. It was always better if I could hear nothing that they were saying, just to observe them from a distance without them knowing that I was watching. And, sure enough, it was a pretty standard thing. In every situation, there was a sort of feeding of energy going on.

Then, I started observing married people, trying to determine who was the dominator, not in our terms, but in terms of who was getting the energy. Curiously, as often as not, it was the one who might have been thought the weaker or more helpless of the two — the one who evoked the most sympathy by their words and complaints, that actually swelled on the attentions of the “strong” rescuer. I then started to think about sympathy and pity in different terms altogether. I was seeing that it was truly a manipulation to get more juice.

The C's said that 4D STS drains us through "organic portals".. So I suppose, when an OP is draining you, the energy goes straight to 4D. But when a souled individual is draining you, that energy might just be going to them. After that, who knows? Maybe they themselves are drained later by someone more powerful, or by an OP, or whatever.. It's the way of this world, when acting mechanically at least. That's my thought anyway...

About this thread.. I thought Alejo described well how I saw it:

If you were in a class that you're either teaching or participating in, and in the middle of it two people became rather fond of one another and began to have an overtly friendly chat, what would you do? what would be the most considerate thing to do for them and you and everyone else in class? You'd probably say, "hey guys, this is not the place, it's not the purpose for this gathering, but you're both adults and no one is trying to tell you what you can or cannot do, so if you do wish to carry on, perhaps you should do it elsewhere." That is all those comments mean.

(My thought was that the vibe was a bit like two loud drunk people having a nice time talking with each other, in a library where people are trying to study - doesn't really work though since it's a web forum and the audience is not captive. So Alejo's is better)... I personally didn't think any *actual* flirting was going on, it obviously wasn't, though as iamthatis & Gurdjieff said in this good post, there is unavoidably an element of sexual energetics involved in pretty much anything like this. Whether the participants have any libido, or interest, or are conscious of it at all, or have lots of platonic friends of the opposite sex and their spouse has no problem with it, etc etc etc....matters not. There's still sex at the bottom of it all, that's how it seems to me anyway. It doesn't mean anything. It's normal. And what it is, is mechanical.. and a large part of the purpose of the forum is to learn how to see that kind of mechanicalness and adjust it in ourselves, I think?

I expected better, to be honest. I would have thought that the admin. here would have been more discreet and I think that someone could have messaged Helmet and I with a "knock it off, coming across as inappropriate, stick to the subject matter"

I mean, it was all posted in public so makes sense for replies to be in public too.. And that way learning opportunities abound for all =)

But instead, I felt like I was watching a 'mob mentality' pointing at us, mostly Helmet...with a group consensus of his motives...and making a judgement call without really knowing either of us (or our life stories).

Who says the motives potentially in question were mostly just BHelmet's? Have you heard of "the feminine vampire"? i.e., what Jones said....

Another thing to consider is that if a predatory type is trying to establish resonance, they often try to play on the ways that they are similar to their target and then give them heaps of attention. The target is hooked by the good feelings that generates. Not saying that is definitely what is happening here, but there are plenty of red flags that indicate the possibility.

....can apply equally well to you OR BHelmet, cept you're much newer and so more unknown. Note that I don't think anybody is saying this IS what is happening (or who the predator would be, if so) - surely nobody knows. So it's not really a judgement call - at least I don't think so - but what it is is, many times over the decades this place has been running, such dynamics HAVE been seen playing out here, sometimes with bad consequences.. AND, that kind of thing makes a great channel of attack (i.e. attack by the powers-that-be on Laura et al and the forum and the work being done here).. So I think (I'm only guessing really) the POV of the admins is that it's better to prevent the possibility from even arising in the first place. That's why this forum can be quite strict..

It can be a bit of a confusing balance to find for newer members - this forum obviously isn't a super cold/clinical/sterile place, but also it's not, as often noted, a chat room. It's not like any other forum I've been on... I guess that's why it's a "research forum" (hence Alejo's likening it to a school class, or mine to a study library)..... I'm still capable of bristling slightly when I remember how a mod once, years ago, told me this wasn't a kindergarden - when I thought I'd just been trying to network openly :D Maybe they were overly harsh, or maybe I was overly kindergardeny, I can't remember now. Sure, they could add a "fun random chatter" subforum, but bandwidth costs money and there's social networks etc for that kinda thing...

Anyways. I don't think anyone is meaning anything like banning, or that you guys're bad (in a general context) or anything. You'd have to be really continually disruptive to be banned! It's all about the context of this forum. I read the replies here as more like "read the room" - Do you see many other threads where two people have an extended, personal kind of back & forth like that?

Those are my sleepy two cents...

 

[Jenn]

Using an online forum as a chat room (which they mostly are) isn't exactly crime of the century and penalising people for this is just way too harsh .

It's not the crime of the century, no. But it is not what is done here and there are reasons for that namely; noise reduction and protection of members. There are plenty of online spaces where this form of communication is acceptable and that's fine. Some examples would be Reddit, Quora, Telegram channels & Facebook, etc. Alejo tried to communicate that more "softly" and it continued, hence the replies from other mods.

As for Mods not admitting they are wrong, I have seen this numerous times on the forum. In this case, the intention may not have been to flirt but that is how it came across to others. It's a fine line when males and females communicate with banter and sometimes it can become blurry, of course, that's not to say men and women shouldn't be friends or have a joke, but I think it should be modulated and it's something to be cautious of on a forum like this. To be honest that goes for male-male and female-female communication too.

Throughout my years on the forum, I have never seen a thread like this where two members go back and forth with each other, having an isolated conversation on a public forum and it's not something that would be beneficial to encourage. Can you imagine the pages of noise other members would have to go through?? Where do you draw the line? Is it OK on some threads but not others? You can see the complications that would arise. At the end of the day, this is not your average forum, if you both have something to add here, great, if you are trying to one-up each other and play intellectual games for stimulating banter, that won't fly.

 

[Cosmos]

No one said it was the "crime of the century". But it is not what this forum is about. Maybe some should look back at the Forum guidelines. This is a research forum and based on the 4th Way principles. If we let one "chatroom" type thread continue, there will be more, and as I said, that is not what this forum is about.

You will do what you will do. Some people's emotions get in the way of seeing what is being said as their various programs get triggered.

That's fine, but that's not what this forum is about. So it will not be encouraged here. A few words back and forth between some is fine, but not an entire thread.

I think it is rather simple:

Even if what was going on wasn’t flirting (which I doubt), from what I could see, what was done here over many pages is more like chatting between two people with little to no actual content, which is not what this forum is about. Yes, a bit of chatting talk here and there is ok and even good I think, but when it goes over board it simply doesn’t fit here. And it is also inappropriate towards others on the forum who want to see real content and usually have limited time to do so. That's basically what was pointed out, I think.

 

[Beau]

That's basically what was pointed out, I think.

I went a little further than that in my replies. Maybe I'm wrong on the "emotional cheating" front, I'm not married so perhaps it's not as big a deal as it seemed to me. I guess the folks who are in long-term relationships would be better to comment on that. But, the back and forth felt to me like a discussion between much younger folks than jacygirl and BHelmet's ages, and it had a feel of sexual energy behind the words. I think the main concern we have here is the protection of our members from energy draining, however that might manifest, and to keep the signal high and the noise low. I know you're new here jacygirl and may not see it as such a big deal, but as brandon pointed out in his excellent post, the energy draining aspect is something we are rather sensitive to here and that is part of why I was trying to nip things in the bud. It wasn't a judgement on anyone's character, but rather a comment on the nature of the words being said to each other.

 

[Denis]

The C's said that 4D STS drains us through "organic portals".. So I suppose, when an OP is draining you, the energy goes straight to 4D. But when a souled individual is draining you, that energy might just be going to them. After that, who knows? Maybe they themselves are drained later by someone more powerful, or by an OP, or whatever.. It's the way of this world, when acting mechanically at least. That's my thought anyway...

I didn't see any "draining" dynamics between @BHelmet and @jacygirl, nor did i feel awkward or something whilst reading their exchanges, quite the opposite!
Also, i wouldn't call it they "feeding off each other". Au contraire, i saw it as them "feeding each other".

That being said, i feel no need to push my view of this situation on all others, so i will be withdrawing from this thread for the time being, and won't be posting along the same line, so as not to create noise here.

As i've already said: your house, your rules.

Thank you for reading this, and
long live the School!

 

[Wandering Star]

I went a little further than that in my replies. Maybe I'm wrong on the "emotional cheating" front, I'm not married so perhaps it's not as big a deal as it seemed to me. I guess the folks who are in long-term relationships would be better to comment on that. But

I have read somewhere that everything that comes before the "but" in a sentence is useless or is a lie or excuse from the person saying it.