Bad Boys

[BHelmet]

The heat has finally broken here in Oregon and it's a great day to tackle my solar panel set up, but, obviously things need to be addressed here. Not sure I will get to everything but here is a start.

Awesome! See? Errr...

There is value here, like so many other train wrecks that turn into learning lessons. It was only a matter of time. Verbal/mental intimacy is both revealing and can be hugely triggering when on overt display.

Some background: I have two other LONG time friends, both males, who I have this type of relationship with. It’s rare, and amazing and wonderful. I also have this with 1 of my 4 kids where the space of open communication is bidirectional and disarming honesty prevails. There are different ways to look at it and I’m glad it’s coming out here now in this thread.

It is possible to discover and create relationships that are both honest and have nothing to do with sex even if they sound like they might. The listening of the observer is as much in play as what might really be going on. I could sense the discomfort building and that is why I wrote what I did about external consideration to preemptively address the issue a few posts back. Jacygirl didn't really have a chance to respond before the chorus began.

The last thing I want or need (especially at age 74 after a recent heart attack) is a romantic relationship with another female. Lord, do I appear THAT crazy?? I don't need another hole in my head or my heart. But, being able to honestly share with another and receive back in kind with a background of acceptance, and investigative exploration, irrespective of gender, is a rare treasure. Furthermore, my wife has had, over the years, similar types of relationships with others than me, some of the male gender. At first this was a big challenge to my level of trust as well as personal insecurity. But it is true that not any one person is going to 100% have the ability to relate and provide all of the feedback needed for growth, even our spouse. (or our kids) They need other mentors and perspective. It is necessary to let go a bit in order to nurture the bond. You don’t develop real trust in a relationship without those challenges to vulnerability and ego at some point. At least, that is my experience. To truly develop trust, I needed that catalyst of letting her go, a bit.

(Sidebar addendum: I have always been a cutie (their words, not mine) and had plenty of temptations mince past my door after marriage including some of my wife's "friends". I refused them all even when no one was there but the opportunity. I am not that type to mess around. It became an aim of my life to be true and loyal unto death, as the vows state, given that there was a history in my family. My dad was born out of wedlock from an adulterous affair, for example. So I took it on (personally karmically as well) to heal that aspect of my family tree. You don't know that, (I have not shared it) but the judgements are inevitable.

I am not going to deeply address the tendency to judge. It probably deserves a thread of its own. (and I am not immune either, of course) A few words are in order, though. Everybody tends to convince themselves they see rightly and truly. If it looks and smells to you like something is "X" - that does not necessarily mean it IS X, in spite of the "If it walks and talks like a Duck, etc" memes. It only seems to be suggestive that it walks and talks like a duck and places that thought in the mind. IOW, I am saying this interaction is not what you think you are seeing and you can believe me or not. You can say I am deluded. Fine. I get it. It is up to you. (and the level of commitment to being "right" that you might have.) Should I be honest with y'all? I can't say I enjoy the "get a room" type comments, but I do appreciate them. There are counters to that but it would be counterproductive.

All that said, all options are on the table. Just shut that “bad boy” down; continue in a confined limited way; or get tossed out. Or something else. Bottom line, this IS what networking is about. I am open and as I said earlier, I do not want to be a problem. I want to respect everyones sensibilities up to, but not including, absolute self-suppression. On the other hand, there is a LOT beginning to play out here and I think it should be allowed: both all the comments and whatever Jacygirl and I might make of it. It should be a valuable lesson.

On a certain level Jacygirl and I represent 2 firing neurons of the cosmic soul disturbing some adjacent neurons. Is it dysfunctional or negative and an STS based thing? Maybe. Are the negative comments dysfunctional and negative and STS? Maybe. Or are both vectors reflective of a 4D STO inclination? Mayyybeee. Who is really engaging in the drainage? It is debatable. I want to believe there is the space for all of it. Now, given the way this is playing out, I doubt very much Jacygirl and I will continue to interact in the exact same manner. (BTW, I have not DM'd her or said any more than what you see.) I am not sure how it will go. All your objections and impressions are duly noted and will be taken into consideration by my Department of External Consideration. Thank you.

Sincerely

 

[BHelmet]

Super, Jacygirl. Yeah a Sense of Humor is SO important. The world tends to be very self-serious and significant and the emperor never likes being ridiculed for his big boy undies. In my family this idea should be on the Coat of Arms. Basically,

If you can't Laugh, you are Screwed, Excelsior!

Or some other clever iteration. Maybe Laughter is the Best Medicine. There are a bunch. Same with grief. IF you can laugh it is like a pressure relief valve finally releasing the pent up negative steam. It took me a while to laugh after my Dad passed. Same as with my dog. So it was a kind of barometer, too. Never saw Thou Shalt Not Laugh in the commandments unless that was one of the 5 on the tablet that broke.

Some people need tea and sympathy. Some need laughter. And so it goes. (Vonnegut reference - He always restores my faith in humanity through his absurd irreverent inane humor. But that doesn't always play out well in real life. Not everyone gets it.)

 

[jacygirl]

Thank you for that! I'm not going to dissect it, I don't have to. I agree with everything you said. You use my expressions "walks like a duck, etc." and we are very alike in many ways. Almost identical views on marriage and children. My kids' father cheated and left us all for 'her' and did SO much damage to our kids. I have always been the woman who would never do that to another woman. I too got a lot of attention and much of it inappropriate. Friends of my husband, etc. and I never took it as a compliment. I was rather insulted that they thought I was a cheating floozy. Not this girl.

I finally put this 'attention' into perspective and even managed to find something rather humorous. (Yes, I learned a lot...a lot.) But there is a subtle irony here that's killing me! In this thread about 'Bad Boys'...you have been basically called out and labelled as a "Bad Boy". A married man flirting publicly with a single woman. (who is also old and half dead and done with relationships...and just fine with that)
Perception is everything. Were we annoying? Apparently. Were we flirting? Nope. Not either of our's intention or motive whatsoever.

The best friend I just lost was my almost constant companion after meeting 7 years ago in the local abused women's shelter. We connected. We had the deep conversations about everything. She was hilarious and we made each other laugh. Am I missing that? Yep, like crazy. Did you and I (for a short while) recreate that good feeling for me? Without a doubt. Do I regret it now? Nope.
No Regrets.

Just read your last post. Edit to add: "And so it goes. (Vonnegut reference..."
I always say "and so it goes". I don't always credit Vonnegut with the line. True confessions, eh?
Oh, and I do believe that now that you are officially the thread mascot for "Bad Boy" that you stop being so kind and logical.
I'm going out for a smoke, lol.

 

[Denis]

Just to leave couple thoughts here....

After reading more from @BHelmet and @jacygirl here just recently, i am not entirely convinced that i was right on the money with my comment directed at @Beau (perceiving their interaction here as inappropriate flirting of a single woman with a married man and vice versa).
I'll be going with my former "I believe we are witnessing a birth of a wonderful new friendship" (yeah i know, i "modified it a bit )...

And if my post is considered as nothing more but noise, please, by all means, dearest moderators, feel free to delete it.
After all, *your house, your rules*.
I feel utmost respect for all of you here, and i don't think that will ever change.

Wishing you all a wonderful day!

 

[jacygirl]

Just to leave couple thoughts here....

After reading more from @BHelmet and @jacygirl here just recently, i am not entirely convinced that i was right on the money with my comment directed at @Beau (perceiving their interaction here as inappropriate flirting of a single woman with a married man and vice versa).
I'll be going with my former "I believe we are witnessing a birth of a wonderful new friendship" (yeah i know, i "modified it a bit )...

And if my post is considered as nothing more but noise, please, by all means, dearest moderators, feel free to delete it.
After all, *your house, your rules*.
I feel utmost respect for all of you here, and i don't think that will ever change.

Wishing you all a wonderful day!

Thank you Denis! I really appreciate your words (and they ain't noise to me). May I respond to a sentence of yours?

"I believe we are witnessing a birth of a wonderful new friendship"
Well to be honest, births are rather traumatic to witness. All that blood, snot and tears. So, awesome description of what has been witnessed, lol.

I believe that respect is earned. You have most definitely got mine.
Here's to better days ahead for all!!

 

[Denis]

Thank you Denis! I really appreciate your words (and they ain't noise to me). May I respond to a sentence of yours?

"I believe we are witnessing a birth of a wonderful new friendship"
Well to be honest, births are rather traumatic to witness. All that blood, snot and tears. So, awesome description of what has been witnessed, lol.

I believe that respect is earned. You have most definitely got mine.
Here's to better days ahead for all!!

Well, this "birth" word was the first thing that popped into my mind then. I'm sure that there is always a better way to describe what i saw there.
In my defense, i will say that not all "births" have to be traumatic, like the one that's happened between you and @BHelmet. I think it's quite the opposite, warm, friendly and goofy!

Thank you for your kind words! I feel the same towards you!

 

[jacygirl]

Well, this "birth" word was the first thing that popped into my mind then. I'm sure that there is always a better way to describe what i saw there.
In my defense, i will say that not all "births" have to be traumatic, like the one that's happened between you and @BHelmet. I think it's quite the opposite, warm, friendly and goofy!

Thank you for your kind words! I feel the same towards you!

Well the 'birth' might not have been traumatic but the fallout afterwards was....messy. (almost like having twins, lol)

I was thinking again (I'm trying to quit, I swear)...and I thought that Helmet is like the male me. I'm afraid to ask what his zodiac sign is at this point. Now I would never try to get with another me because I annoy myself no end, would I really want another one around?

So, if I was the last single old bird in a nursing home...and the only single old dude was another me...I would run/stomp/stagger away, pushing my walker and muttering, "I gotta tolerate me, but I don't gotta tolerate you..."
Being older is more fun than I imagined, hehe.

 

[BHelmet]

If you start asking about astrology, people are definitely going to get the wrong idea!

And then there is the Vedic vs Western conundrum. In Vedic I’m a Leo With moon in the aquarium. In Western, Virgo Picky Pisces moon with Capricorn crosses to bear rising. Of course Saturn is a PIA no matter what system. Oh and Chinese Tiger year. That’s what I’d be curious about.

 

[jacygirl]

What wrong idea is that? That I'm a moron who believes in horoscopes? Pfft, I'm sure they think I'm a much bigger moron than that.
Ohh, you're moon is in the aquarium. My moon is in Aquarius. This explains a lot.
In Western, I'm a Sagittarius (straight shooter, aiming for the stars but feet planted on the ground....or hooves...)

Fine. Chinese...I'm a rat. Go ahead, do your worst.
Rats adapt to their environment. So true. No matter how hostile.

 

[iamthatis]

Is it ok to ask about the term "feeding off each other" in this context?
I would like to understand when this term is being used, is it used literally, or is it a figure of speech, or both?

Yeah, it's not easy to notice it when it happens. We're not attuned to the realm of our own personal energies and life force, we aren't taught good boundaries, or what appropriate behaviour looks like because we live in a culture create by psychopaths which is designed to leave us open to be fed upon, and also encourages us feed on each other.

But what is this feeding? It's a good question. I think it can look like a lot of things. I think it comes down to emotional need. Sometimes it looks like a genuine cry for help from a friend, and when we show up and hang out or listen to their life story, if paying close attention we can See that we may just be playing a role in their unconscious dramas. But maybe they don't want a reciprocal exchange, they don't want the truth, they don't want to get better, but are in NEED of something, something of yours - attention, some information, some interaction, some emotional food. They want someone to stroke their ego. This feeling of neediness in another person isn't really something that I can really quantify, as I've only experience qualitatively in the interaction. Or after an interaction that leaves me feeling drained. I'm still learning how to do notice and respond in the moment. Definitely something to watch out for, tho. Particularly if the person in question is someone of the opposite sex.

As Gurdjieff said:

"At the same time sex plays a tremendous role in maintaining the mechanicalness of life. Everything that people do is connected with 'sex': politics, religion, art, the theater, music, is all 'sex.' Do you think people go to the theater or to church to pray or to see some new play? That is only for the sake of appearances. The principal thing, in the theater as well as in church, is that there will be a lot of women or a lot of men. This is the center of gravity of all gatherings. What do you think brings people to cafés, to restaurants, to various fetes? One thing only. Sex: it is the principal motive force of all mechanicalness. All sleep, all hypnosis, depends upon it.

"You must try to understand what I mean. Mechanicalness is especially dangerous when people try to explain it by something else and not by what it really is. When sex is clearly conscious of itself and does not cover itself up by anything else it is not the mechanicalness about which I am speaking. On the contrary sex which exists by itself and is not dependent on anything else is already a great achievement. But the evil lies in this constant self-deception!"

"What then is the deduction; should it be so or should it be changed?" asked someone.

G. smiled.

"That is something people always ask," he said. "Whatever they may be speaking about, they ask: Ought it to be like that and how can it be changed, that is, what ought to be done in such a case? As though it were possible to change anything, as though it were possible to do anything. You at least ought to have realized by now how naive such questions are. Cosmic forces have created this state of affairs and cosmic forces control this state of affairs. And you ask: Can it be left like that or should it be changed! God himself could change nothing. Do you remember what was said about the forty-eight laws? They cannot be changed, but liberation from a considerable portion of them is possible, that is to say, there is a possibility of changing the state of affairs for oneself, it is possible to escape from the general law. You should understand that in this case as well as in all others the general law cannot be changed. But one can change one's own position in relation to this law; one can escape from the general law. The more so since in this law about which I speak, that is, in the power of sex over people, are included many different possibilities. It includes the chief form of slavery and it is also the chief possibility of liberation. This is what you must understand.

" 'New birth,' of which we have spoken before, depends as much upon sex energy as do physical birth and the propagation of species.

The fact of our biological nature is that men and women generally have a lustful part of us that lurks in the Shadow, a part of us who is always looking for the next act of procreation and the propagation of the species. Even if we already have a mate, the reptilian brain begins selecting 'spares'. It does this in an almost entirely unconscious way. It doesn't really register in the rational mind, unless we learn of the existence of this drive, begin to notice it in ourselves, and make the necessary changes in our thinking.

I noticed it in my life recently. A friend I hadn't seen in a while invited me for a walk in the woods. After a while, it seems like she got around to what she really wanted to talk about - her troubles with her boyfriend. Now, we weren't particularly close, so I was somewhat surprised at the turn in the conversation. Add that to being contacted out of the blue, and I suspected that I had been selected as a 'spare', and this was her way of sending that biological signal. It sounds cynical to my romantic tendencies, but that's the world we live in - one ruled by unconscious sexual energy.

I also noticed it in myself, too, not so long ago. I am single, but when walking around in town, I had this desperate need to be noticed by anyone female, really - the cashier, the old lady walking by, whomever had a pair of breasts. Sort of embarrassing to admit it, but that was the reality. The inner reality was that this was the product of a mindset of lack - in order to feel good about myself, I was banking my self esteem and wellbeing on external validation. I was also unconscious of my sexual energy - it was ruling my lower intellectual and emotional centres. I might as well have hung an 'Open for Business' sign around my neck. Moving from this state of lack and neediness towards a different form of experiencing attraction - one centred in an abundant sense of self - has been the name of my game since I noticed. I should also say that I don't think seeking external validation is a bad thing - what we're doing to ourselves vibrationally, what beliefs are being operationalized, and what our behaviour looks like is what is important to pay attention to.

So, noting how difficult it can be to sense the misuse of sexual energies in ourselves and others, I do think that this is what's happening in this thread. To my eyes, two people look to be basically ego-stroking and feeding off each other and aren't really aware of the unconscious sexual energy being exchanged.

 

[Alejo]

Should I be honest with y'all? I can't say I enjoy the "get a room" type comments, but I do appreciate them. There are counters to that but it would be counterproductive.

No body likes them, but you'd probably react the same way if you were in the same situation. A thread is open, for discussion (say the corona thread) and instead it turns into two people being friendly/flirty/bantery with one another, is it wrong? technically not, but is it innappropiate? yes, why? because of the context in which it takes place.

If you were in a class that you're either teaching or participating in, and in the middle of it two people became rather fond of one another and began to have an overtly friendly chat, what would you do? what would be the most considerate thing to do for them and you and everyone else in class? You'd probably say, "hey guys, this is not the place, it's not the purpose for this gathering, but you're both adults and no one is trying to tell you what you can or cannot do, so if you do wish to carry on, perhaps you should do it elsewhere." That is all those comments mean.

I am open and as I said earlier, I do not want to be a problem. I want to respect everyones sensibilities up to, but not including, absolute self-suppression

Very good point, but as you are open to the forms that networking takes, people reacting to what you do and say publicly is also a part of someone else not self suppressing also. I don't think it's so much about self suppression as a rule being thrown at you or anyone with the expectation for it to be followed blindly and quietly, it's about remembering the purpose of the forum. There's a difference.

Can friendship spring out of networking and researching? of course it can, but that fact, does not make the purpose of the forum to achieve just that. You can meet your wife in school, it doesn't mean school is the place you go with that express purpose. I hope that's clear.

I want to believe there is the space for all of it. Now, given the way this is playing out, I doubt very much Jacygirl and I will continue to interact in the exact same manner.

Time will tell I suppose.

I am saying this interaction is not what you think you are seeing and you can believe me or not

This interaction looks like two people not networking, rather two people who enjoy chatting with one another. That is what I see at least, is that not what we're seeing? and would you not make a similar assumption about intentions because of the flavor it has taken? If you saw one of your friends talking that exclusively, privately and warmly with someone in the middle of a gathering, would you not at least ask "do you like this person?"

I know you know this, it's not that there's an expectation that every interaction in the forum should be serious and void of any form of warmth, or humor, not at all. But those shouldn't be the only purpose of interactions, which is what this thread looks like, from the outside.

 

[Jones]

Another thing to consider is that if a predatory type is trying to establish resonance, they often try to play on the ways that they are similar to their target and then give them heaps of attention. The target is hooked by the good feelings that generates. Not saying that is definitely what is happening here, but there are plenty of red flags that indicate the possibility.

 

[Nienna]

I could write pages of explanations and try to do 'damage control', but I don't believe that is the correct approach to take.

And, yet, for the next 3 or so posts, that is what you were doing.

Beyond that, this forum is not a chat room. If you want to have conversations like you are having, this isn't the place.

This is the crux of the matter. You were using the forum as a chat room. That's not what this forum is for.

I think I'm going to go back to being a lurker/reader for a while.

Why? Because you were told to not use the forum as a chat room? That's like saying, "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of thing. No one is asking you to quit posting, just don't use the forum as a chat room. I don't want you to quit posting. But if you can't take some critical feedback and decide to leave, well, that's up to you.

I realize that I get a very positive reaction when someone has a sense of humor.

I love it when someone has a sense of humor, and for some of the reasons you've listed. There is enough terrible things happening in the world today to keep us down and depressed. A sense of humor lightens the load so to say. And I've like some of you posts that made me laugh out loud.

The thing is, just don't use the forum as a chat room and everything will be okay.

 

[happyliza]

I would just like to make a brief comment (not concerning Forum rules).
I actually really enjoyed the first few banter posts as I love with and repartee, which I so miss. This is why I love same in ost of Oscar Wilde's writings.
I really don't think we can ignore, not become friends with 50% of the population on the planet. That too is an unhalthy outlook. It all depends on how much you have mastered your machine and about keeping your intentions pure. We are all interdependent after all.
I am very fortunate i that for many years now I have absolutely no libido, and I feel truly grateful for that as it never gets in the way of my aim, or work time. Enabling me to truly focus on things without this needless distraction.
Having said that I am also aware that the sexual centre is where our best, higher energies can be obtained from 7th Density. So I keep this in mind too. Especially when under any pressure, using brathwork to prevent anger or emotion reaching past my neck for that purpose. As we have been advised.
I did get a bit bored of the later posts, and it was my choice to just move to another thread.
I do agree that it is very difficult to find situations/people where we meet/interact with such humour on a grounded basis. And am sad about that as the best coping mechanism IMO is to be able to be in 'joy' and happy go luckly. Especially to be able to laugh at ourselves to prevent becoming rigid in our attitudes (which I was for quite a long time unconsciously).

Also, sadly, as mentioned above it is typical predatory behaviour in these times - as I have deeply and damagingly learned from being too trusting, lack of knowledge and thoroughly bad past choices because of this. Worst still, on a repetitive cycle!
I am also grateful that I am just an old crone way past my child-bearing age, so am not tempted by the natural physical functions of reproduction necessary for the planet.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Happy Poo]

What about others here taking critical feedback Nienna? is it possible for higher ranking members to do this? Or are they exempt? These two weren't actually interacting in the way that others were accusing them of and took time to explain. And the assumptions made by others were actually not correct, as was apparent after they clarified . Yet no one wants to admit this.. No one wants to own up that they made a wrong judgement which is so easy to do online.

Seams there's one rule for high ranking people here and another for others, that others have to accept when they are wrong, but forum mods etc don't. That wasn't damage limitation to me , it was what was actually happening, they both took the time to explain after being publicly shamed for just having a conversion.

I was actually enjoying reading this before it got cut off and it didn't come across as flirting, i can see how it could but that was just one perception and wasnt the first one that came to mind. If the forum isn't a chat room then okay, but its also a natural tendency for people to wanna bond and chat, so its kind of normal too so try to understand that also. So what is Networking then Alejo? Is it only the high ranking members who are given the privilege of deciding what networking is? Why not reach a consensus together. Whats wrong with just talking and laughing for the sake of it? To bond and get to know each other is intrinsic to networking imo, it depends on your perception.
It didn't come across as ego feeding either. To me It came across like two people who were giving each other a boost and some support/encouragement.

What defines "higher quality " posts? If that's what people think then it totally puts me off posting as I'm constantly in a state of stress as to wether my posts live up to what is "expected ". Not everyone is as competent, intelligent or able to post as "high quality" as you guys, including me. Attitudes like this risk to push others out and it discourages those who aren't as capable.

"Because you were told not to use the chat room " It's like your talking to a naughy kid here from a higher place

"Comport yourself like adults " A comment that came across as pompous and self important
..

Can you not see yourselves?

Using an online forum as a chat room (which they mostly are) isn't exactly crime of the century and penalising people for this is just way too harsh .

I'm done here, I've had enough of this "holier than thou" attitude from high ranking forum members who use the bat of whatever they think is wrong (usually self importance etc) with people, to beat others with, when some of them act in this way themselves. The hippocracy is too much. I'm one too I know. . In a previous post I said about expressing truths with softness and love, well I did say "if possible" lol.
Many people would agree but are probably too scared to say anything because everyone will gang up on them complete with a chorus of "likes" from mods.

I'm logging out after this as I don't have the energy to put up that crap, ie with everyone doing that to me right now cause its frigging horrible to be on the receiving end of when its done in an un loving way, where there are so many against one person. . no matter how you wish to paint it. A mirror in a group situation probably involves people in person, not on-line where folks hardly know each other, where the person who is judged "wrong" by people who hardly know them,
gets told off, often in a hostile way, by however many people with corresponding likes. And even when the higher ranking ones are proven to be wrong they can't even admit it and do all sorts of intellectualisation to excuse themselves instead of just putting their hands up and saying "sorry I was wrong " when everyone else is expected to admit it . It comes across to me as bullying from forum members who have big egos.