Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Vaccines

[foofighter]

The idea of a very deadly disease infecting a large percentage of the population is very frightening at first, but the truth is that a disease can EITHER be very deadly OR it can spread easily. It cannot do both.

Sure it can, it all comes down to incubation time. With an incubation time of, let's say, a week, a virus can spread very far fairly unnoticed and then kill everyone who has been infected.

 

[GRiM]

Is there any *confirmed* deaths from H5N1?
From what I have read it seems that around 140 people worldwide "have died from H5N1". If there is this global pandemic rageing then 140 seems a bit low, I think you could explain those 140 deaths without calling it H5N1.

Cumulate Human Cases of and Deaths from H5N1
As of September 14, 2006
(From wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1)

Just a thought.

 

[Alana]

t just vanished didnt it?

Actually last night the news channels in Cyprus were all showing a warning by the EU commitee for all EU countries to prepare themselves for the possibility (because in their opinion it exists) of a scars or bird flu outbreak. Didn't other EU countries say anything to their citizens? Or is there a plan to particularly scare us? :)

 

[Cyn]

Is there any *confirmed* deaths from H5N1?
From what I have read it seems that around 140 people worldwide "have died from H5N1". If there is this global pandemic rageing then 140 seems a bit low, I think you could explain those 140 deaths without calling it H5N1.

Cumulate Human Cases of and Deaths from H5N1
As of September 14, 2006
(From wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1)

Just a thought.

What an interesting chart. I don't recall ever seeing "cumulative" stats recorded that way. Of course the number must rise!! And the scale is carefully manipulated to make the number of "cumulative" cases quite alarming.... even to the point of using "danger red."

Propaganda at its finest.

 

[katatonically]

Rumsfeld owns $5 million in stock in the company that made the flu vaccine. At one point the vaccine was selling so fast that they could not keep up production on it. Scare tactics can be very profitable. Its old news on the avian flu, time to move on to the next big scare. I wonder what kind of flu it will be this time.
Kat

 

[paulnotbilly]

http://uk(dot)news.yahoo.com/02092006/325/low-risk-h5n1-bird-flu-found-ducks.html

Low-risk H5N1 bird flu found in US ducks Reuters Saturday September 2, 11:14 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Mallard ducks in Pennsylvania have tested positive for a low-pathogenic strain of the H5N1 bird flu virus, the U.S. Agriculture and Interior departments said on Saturday, adding to cases detected recently in Maryland and Michigan.

A strain of the H5N1 avian influenza virus was found in wild ducks sampled August 28 in Crawford County in north-western Pennsylvania.

"Testing has ruled out the possibility of this being the highly pathogenic H5N1 strain that has spread through birds in Asia, Europe and Africa," USDA and Interior said in a statement. "Test results thus far indicate this is low pathogenic avian influenza, which poses no risk to human health."

The government said it was conducting additional tests to determine, in part, if the ducks had H5N1 or two separate strains with one virus contributing H5 and the other N1. A second round of tests could take five to 10 more days to confirm whether it was the low-pathogenic H5N1 bird flu.

The virus also has been found during the last month in Michigan and on Friday in Maryland. The Maryland mallards did not appear sick so the samples, collected on August 2 as part of a research project, were not given high priority when sent to USDA labs for testing.

It's been quiet other than this article, sounds like there might be a problem getting the virus not to kill too quickly or there's a better window of opportunity been spotted further down the line...

 

[ArdVan]

What an interesting chart. I don't recall ever seeing "cumulative" stats recorded that way. Of course the number must rise!! And the scale is carefully manipulated to make the number of "cumulative" cases quite alarming.... even to the point of using "danger red."

Propaganda at its finest.

Can you explain to me how the scale on the chart was manipulated? I look at it and can't see any manipulation in the chart. I don't know if the numbers are correct. :/

X-axis is linear. Y-axis is linear and starts at zero. If there a small difference then it's that the 2004 flu season stops at the end of April 2004. All the other years it stops at the end of May.

 

[Cyn]

Can you explain to me how the scale on the chart was manipulated? I look at it and can't see any manipulation in the chart. I don't know if the numbers are correct. :/

X-axis is linear. Y-axis is linear and starts at zero. If there a small difference then it's that the 2004 flu season stops at the end of April 2004. All the other years it stops at the end of May.

If you're hung up on one word I used, I'll abandon it. Change my sentence to "And the chart is scaled in such a way as to make the number of "cumulative" cases appear quite alarming.... "

 

[name]

The pic above appeared on the first page of the International Herald Tribune of 28.February.2006 distributed on board of Air France. It shows a duck being injected with "Influenza H5N2". But birdflu is publicized as the "H5N1" strain of Influenza.

This picture shows like nothing else that "birdflu" is nothing but a giant heap of BS.

Also, when the scare broke out last winter, the first reaction by (medical ?) authorities here in austria was that a) "birdflu" was not really dangerous to humans and b) that Tamiflu was not effective against "birdlu" because it was caused by another strain of the Influenza virus than the one which Tamiflu was effective against.

They would soon change tack, 'finding' dead swans and other fowl in the mid of winter which were said affected by "birdflu".

 

[name]

I just posted this:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=624.msg21194#msg21194

I think that it is pertinent

 

[foofighter]

Can you explain to me how the scale on the chart was manipulated? I look at it and can't see any manipulation in the chart. I don't know if the numbers are correct. :/

X-axis is linear. Y-axis is linear and starts at zero. If there a small difference then it's that the 2004 flu season stops at the end of April 2004. All the other years it stops at the end of May.

If you're hung up on one word I used, I'll abandon it. Change my sentence to "And the chart is scaled in such a way as to make the number of "cumulative" cases appear quite alarming.... "

I agree with ArdVan, the method to show cumulative deaths and scales used is pretty normal. I would have done the same, regardless of topic. The problem is that most people don't know how to read a chart, e.g. you have to look at the scales.

 

[ArdVan]

I think Cyn question is still valid. I have no idea if this cumulative chart is the usual way to show if the number of deaths rise? Maybe yes and the chart is not manipulated, but it's the chart itself which is the manipulation, because most people just read "cases" and "deaths" and see the lines go up quickly and think OMG and get scared.

But someone who can read the chart knows that as long the line goes up as a more or less straight line the number of cases per year didn't change.

 

[Ruth]

Bird flu, was in fact a 'scare campaign'.

I quite agree. It sold a lot of Tamiflu, too.

Maybe there's COINTELPRO for diseases too? But there can definately be a profit motive as well.

I do not doubt for a minute that there are laboratory enginered diseases that are quite capable of both killing and spreading themselves very fast.

Well, I disagree, although I suppose we're both just speculating. Something like that would require testing to know for sure if it worked, I think. Yet, we haven't seen evidence of such testing.

I think this would most likely be a branch of science that any government would not want it's citizens knowing about and most experiements would be carried out on animals in laboritories (especially the terminal ones). Experiments on humans (if they are unaware subjects) would most likely be on long term exposure to things.... so as not to cause any undue notice if people are suddenly droping like flies, or risk an experiment getting out of control.

A quick internet search will confirm my contention regarding virology.... if a pathogen kills its host too quickly, it cannot spread efficiently.

Depends how it spreads. Is it airborne, bloodborne, carried around by an animal, maybe in the water? The big problem with diseases is that they are an unknown quantity. If you were a hostile government wanting to invade a country, it would be easier to poison people or kill or disable them with weapons, rather than unleash a virus that could potentially mutate and have unknown qualities that will only come back and cause problems later. It could very well be like unleashing a monster which could come back and bite it's 'master'. There are lots of factors to consider here, like what is simpler, cheaper etc. I think many governments (especially the US) would have in interest and also a pretty significant 'collection' of diseases to 'study' in their disease laboratories. But they should know the dangers of them, if nothing else.

 

[Ruth]

Rumsfeld owns $5 million in stock in the company that made the flu vaccine. At one point the vaccine was selling so fast that they could not keep up production on it. Scare tactics can be very profitable. Its old news on the avian flu, time to move on to the next big scare. I wonder what kind of flu it will be this time.
Kat

I suppose it would be highly unlikely for him to have any financial interests in bird stock then? Unless it was only in a country where there was no birdflu? Then, when stocks in other countries became 'infected' (use scare tactics where necessary), a person with an interest in uninfected stock could then make 'a killing'...

This might be a good way to steal contracts of other countries, or take away something of value to them.

 

[a.saccus]

I do not doubt for a minute that there are laboratory enginered diseases that are quite capable of both killing and spreading themselves very fast.

Well, I disagree, although I suppose we're both just speculating. Something like that would require testing to know for sure if it worked, I think. Yet, we haven't seen evidence of such testing.

The time for speculation is past. I have discovered a group of intrepid British researchers who have actually answered all your questions and who -- at considerable risk to themselves, I might add -- have placed the entire bird-flu controversy in the most appropriate of contexts. I just hope the Pentagon or the folks at Ft. Detrick, Maryland haven't seen this yet....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjbYNgIi5ss&mode=related&search=

However, please be advised: You watch this video at your own risk [...]