Crash of German Wings Flight over French Alps

In light of the economic tension between Germany and the rest of Europe it's interesting to think of this:

I wonder as well now how many pilots out there are programmed.

Think of the persuasive power that certain folks would have over German leaders or others of influence, if they could demonstrate they had this power over pilots.

But any conspiracy aside, from a symbolic standpoint, interesting that this was a flight from Spain (broke) to Germany (not broke, at least in theory). Germany is holding the financial cards but is passing thru snowy mountains of uncertainty. In light of possible pending Euro economic disaster and compromises that will need to be made with Spain, Portugal, Greece vs. Germany and France. The symbolism of a German pilot crashing a plane full of German visitors from Spain into a mountain in the French/Swiss(?) Alps is mighty interesting. The "intramodal transport policy" is in for a crash, possibly by deliberate sabotage?
 
From "Ask The Pilot" by Patrick Smith
Germanwings A320 Crashes in the Alps UPDATE: March 26, 2015

_http://www.askthepilot.com/germanwings-crash/
I’M NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY. For pilots, that a colleague may have intentionally crashed his plane and killed everybody on board, is not only horrific but embarrassing, offensive, and potentially stigmatizing to the entire profession.

This would not the first instance of a crewmember committing a murderous act. In 1994, an off-duty FedEx pilot, riding along in a cockpit jumpseat, attacked the crew of a DC-10 freighter with a hammer and spear gun. A PSA jet once crashed after a disgruntled employee shot both pilots. And most notorious of all, a suicidal first officer brought down EgyptAir flight 990 flying from New York to Cairo in 1999.

I worry now is that every time a plane goes down and the reason is not immediately obvious, people will begin proposing suicide as a possible cause. Try to remember that even if we include the SilkAir crash or the or unsolved MH370 disaster, acts of crewmember sabotage account for a tiny number of incidents over the many decades — and, regrettably, the many accidents — of civil aviation. If indeed the Germanwings first officer crashed his plane, that’s tragic and unforgivable. But it was, for lack of a better description, a freak event, something highly unusual. Hopefully the traveling public realizes that the rest of the tens of thousands airline pilots out there take their profession, and your safety, as seriously as they possibly can.

People will be asking: how many pilots out there are ready to crack? Is the mental health of pilots being evaluated properly by airlines and government regulators?

In the U.S., airline pilots undergo medical evaluations either yearly or twice-yearly. A medical certificate must be issued by an FAA-certified physician. The checkup is not a psychological checkup per se, but the FAA doctor evaluates a pilot on numerous criteria, up to and including his or her mental health. Pilots can be grounded for any of hundreds of reasons, from heart trouble or diabetes to, yes, depression and anxiety. It can and does happen. In addition, new-hire pilots at some airlines must undergo psychological examinations prior to being hired. On top of that, we are subject to random testing for narcotics and alcohol.

As for the stresses of the job, it’s no different from any other line of work. People are people, and there’s always some element of one’s personal life that is brought to work. Sometimes pilots are dealing with one or another problem or stress issue. That does not mean the pilot is unsafe, or is going to crash the plane. Most airlines, meanwhile, are pretty proactive and accommodating when it comes to employees with personal or mental health problems.

I’m uncertain what more we should want or expect. Pilots are human beings, and no profession is bulletproof against every human weakness. All the medical testing in the world, meanwhile, isn’t going to preclude every potential breakdown or malicious act. For passengers, at certain point there needs to be the presumption that the men and women in control of your airplane are exactly the highly skilled professionals you expect them to be, and not killers in waiting.


March 26, 2015

SOME preliminary thoughts, comments, and cautionaries on Tuesday’s crash of a Germanwings Airbus A320 in France, drawn from some of the points being made by the media:

— The descent


Reportedly the plane descended 31,000 feet in eight minutes before impacting the mountains. Some news sources are citing this as an unusually high rate. This is false. A roughly four thousand foot-per-minute descent is not particularly steep, and would imply the crew was still in control of the aircraft, and that it was not “plummeting” or “diving,” as reporters have described it, as a result of some catastrophic structural failure.

People are talking a lot about the possibility of a decompression (loss of cabin pressure), but a simple decompression by itself is not likely to be the culprit. So long as they aren’t explosive, decompressions are rarely dangerous. That’s true even when flying over mountains. Crews will pre-program so-called “escape routes” into a plane’s flight management system that will help navigate them away from high terrain in the event a rapid descent is required.

One person I spoke to raised the possibility that the crew, after initiating what was a more or less stable descent rate, became unconscious somehow as the plane descended, maybe as a result of not donning their oxygen masks quickly enough after a decompression. Pure speculation there, but it’s possible (as are a hundred other things). It’s clear that at some point the crew either lost control, became disoriented, or were incapacitated. We don’t know how.

— The missing mayday


One supposed expert on NBC voiced that it was “highly unusual” that the pilots did not send a distress call. The opposite is true. Distress calls are not sent in a majority of accidents, and communicating with air traffic control is well down the task hierarchy when dealing with an emergency. The crew’s primary concern, it should go without saying, is controlling the aircraft, followed by troubleshooting whatever problems have caused the situation. Later, if time and conditions permit, ATC can be brought into the loop. There’s an old aviation maxim that says: aviate, navigate, communicate. Communicate, you’ll notice, is number three on that list. Eight minutes might seem a long time, but who knows what level of urgency they were dealing with.

— Hack job?


This again: the theory that the plane’s “flight computer,” whatever that is, exactly, was maliciously hacked by parties unknown. People are so enamored of electronic gadgetry these days, and so vastly ill-informed as to how airplanes actually fly, and how pilots interact with all of the alleged computerization in a modern cockpit, that this bizarre theory is given undue credibility, and thrown around to help fill in the empty spaces. The media has been shamelessly gullible when it comes to this topic, and the public needs to be wary of those who’ve been interviewed or quoted. Typically they have very little knowledge about the operational realities of flying commercial planes.

— Crash cluster?

It would seem, to some, that the number of plane crashes over the past several months has skyrocketed. But although, from a safety perspective, it hasn’t been the best twelve-month stretch, you need to look at things in the larger context: The accident rate is still down, considerably, from what it was twenty or thirty years ago, when multiple large-scale accidents were the norm, year after year. What’s different is that, in years past, we didn’t have a 24/7 news cycle with media outlets spread across multiple platforms, all vying simultaneously for your attention. The media didn’t used to fixate on crashes the way it does today. These fixations tend to be short-lived, but they are intense enough to give people the impression that flying is becoming more dangerous, when in fact it has become safer.

I frequently remind people of the year 1985, when 27 serious accidents killed upwards of 2,500 people. That includes two of history’s ten deadliest crashes occurring within two months of each other. Imagine the circus if such a thing happened today. The past decade has been the safest in civil aviation history, and the cluster of serious accidents over the last year, tragic as they’ve been, is unlikely to change the overall trend.

:offtopic:
Interesting Perspective from the pilots seat. From the Fight Deck of a 737-(Oct. 31, 2014)
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-kO4igP_7c
 
Now they report that the pilot "had been suffering with depression". _http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3013877/Cockpit-rules-change-crash.html

This morning I heard at the radio that he followed a psychiatric treatment. If it's true it would have been an handy point to "work" on him.
 
angelburst29 said:
Reading over a CNN report, I was surprised to see that the FBI, an American Agency were now involved in the investigation? It just seemed odd from my perspective, that a German Airline, flying a European aircraft from Spain, that crashed in the French Alps would elicit the help of the FBI. Don't they have Interpol or their own Governmental Agencies at their disposal? Or could the FBI be involved because one of the American's on the flight, Yvonne Selke worked for the Pentagon?

The French government has asked the FBI to help investigate the crash, a law enforcement official said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/

And here:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/europe/germanwings-crash-main/

FBI agents based in France, Germany and Spain are looking through intelligence sources and cross referencing the passenger manifest of Germanwings Flight 9525, two senior law enforcement officials said. So far, their search hasn't turned up anything that "stands out" or anything linking the passengers to criminal activity, according to one official.

Why would a German Airline, flying a European aircraft from Spain, that crashed in the French Alps - ask the FBI to get involved?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/mother-daughter-from-nokesville-on-flight-that-crashed-in-french-alps/2015/03/25/c5c52454-d301-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

A mother and daughter from Prince William County were among three Americans who perished when an Airbus jet plunged into a frozen ridge in the French Alps this week, officials said Wednesday.

Yvonne Selke, a longtime government contractor, and Emily Selke, a recent graduate of Drexel University, died Tuesday along with 148 others on the Germanwings flight from Spain to Germany.

Yvonne Selke was an employee of Booz Allen Hamilton for nearly 23 years, according to the company. She was working on a contract with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.

It's an interesting bit of data; just keep in mind that American investigators are called in for just about every plane crash these days - the Air France one we suspect was hit by a meteor explosion over the South Atlantic, the disappearing MH370 over the South China Sea, etc. We're all living in Amerika, as the song goes.
 
CNN - Latest developments, 27 March 2015

Transponder data shows that the autopilot was reprogrammed during the flight by someone inside the cockpit to change the plane's altitude from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, according to Flightradar24, a website that tracks aviation data.

The plane's cockpit audio recorder captured horrific sounds. The captain, somehow locked out of the cockpit, can be heard banging on the door, Robin said.

And screaming can be heard on the audio recording for the final few minutes of the flight. [...]

The co-pilot was "fully qualified to pilot the aircraft on his own," Robin said.

A man in Montabaur, Germany, who belonged to the same flight club as Lubitz, said he couldn't believe it. "The way I know Andreas, this is inconceivable," Peter Ruecker said.
 
Something tells me it isn't a regular outage.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/amsterdam-s-schiphol-airport-cancels-all-flights-1.2155661

All flights to and from Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport were cancelled on Friday following a major power outage in the Dutch capital and surrounding region, an airport spokeswoman said.

She said all incoming flights to Europe’s fourth largest airport were being diverted to other regional airports. “We are experiencing a lot of problems due to the outage,” she said.
 
I'm just wondering what about the alleged series of loud noises coming from the air before the crash...
Have they already expired so to speak...
 
rymw said:
Kisito said:
One thing bothers me ! The images were of the accident were released as six hours after the crash. Is it possible that during his six hours of the pieces convictions or even black boxes have been placed on the disaster site ? Also why 70 "Alpini" (military montains) have replaced the firsrt rescuers said they had found no body ?

Yet again more confusion and mystery than answers.
Can you share with us the source of this information, Kisito?

http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/le-journal-de-11h-70-chasseurs-alpins-de-gap-engages-sur-le-site-du-crash-de-l-a320-7777127301

The investigations say the passengers shouted just before the crash, so why no one called with the phone ? 911 WTC there had many calls while it was technically not possible !!
http://www.science-et-vie.com/2014/10/desormais-on-utiliser-smartphone-les-avions-en-vol/
 
RT quoting BILD - which is a trashy populist newspaper in Germany

07:34 GMT:

Lubitz had spent 18 months overall under psychiatric treatment, Bild has reported, citing anonymous sources within Lufthansa, Germanwings’ parent company. The pilot was diagnosed with a "severe depressive episode" in 2009, the German daily says. It claims it got access to Lubitz’s profile, indicating the pilot had “psychological problems” and required a "special, exemplary regular medical examination."

Bild also cites sources familiar with the investigation, saying that Lubitz suffered from a "personal life crisis," following a recent breakup with a girlfriend.


10:13 GMT:

The captain of the Germanwings plane tried to break the locked door to the cockpit with an ax, a security source told Bild. Germanwings has confirmed that an ax was among the equipment available to its pilots.

Now we have the heroic hero captain and the depressive lovesick lunatic - unless the cabindoor was from steel, how hard is it to tear down a door with an axe? Probably it will soon be revealed the captain managed to break through the door last minute but could not avoid the disaster.

and

f the investigation confirms Lubitz’s actions were deliberate, Germanwings could face multimillion-dollar compensation claims.

A typical airline liability is limited by around $157,400 for each passenger who died in a plane crash, but relatives of the Germanwings flight 9525 victims could go to court, accusing the company of negligence and demanding bigger payments.

Potential lawsuits could focus on whether Germanwings properly screened the co-pilot before and during his employment, and if the airline should have had a policy requiring two or more people in cockpits at all times during a flight, lawyers who have represented families in past airline disasters told Reuters on Thursday.

ruining german civilian air operations as an additional bonus.

Merkel has been very silent on the case, that is, after the initial expression of grief.
 
Kasia said:
I'm just wondering what about the alleged series of loud noises coming from the air before the crash...
Have they already expired so to speak...

Very good point!
Also I was thinking about the debris, the myriad pieces of the airplane on the crash site. If an airplane "just simply" crashes wouldn't be scattered that much, osit.
My first thought was comet or meteor could have an effect like a bomb and that's why we see small pieces of the crashed airplane on a relatively big area on the
mountain, all over the place.
Is that make sense?
:/
 
c.a. said:
From "Ask The Pilot" by Patrick Smith
Germanwings A320 Crashes in the Alps UPDATE: March 26, 2015

_http://www.askthepilot.com/germanwings-crash/
I’M NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY. For pilots, that a colleague may have intentionally crashed his plane and killed everybody on board, is not only horrific but embarrassing, offensive, and potentially stigmatizing to the entire profession.

It's interesting to get "a professional Pilots" prospective in the emerging details of this crash. This site features some comments taken from a Blog, listed below. The Blog, itself, is currently featuring a Forum discussion on the Germanwings crash and now has over 90 pages, some with technical data, charts and photo's and personal accounts.

Most of the personal discussions - focus on a possible Pilot Cabin decompression via a blown out windshield, either from a crack in the assembly or an outside external force (explosion of some type.) One Pilot described a possible scenario, where - when the Captain left the Cabin and before his return, an emergency developed in the cockpit, that caused a decompression and the oxygen masks deployed. The Co-pilot donned on the mask (sent out "an emergency-emergency" stress call) and set instruments to take the plane down to 10,000 ft. to help neutralize the decompression and then level out the plane and re-set course. It's not uncommon to go in and out of consciousness, even with an oxygen mask on, under those conditions. In the meantime, the Captain arrived at the Cabin door, knocked to signal entry - when in fact, under the circumstances, opening the door would have decompressed the passenger area, setting up a scenario of sucking contents from inside the plane (and the Captain) out through the front Cabin Window. In exerting extra effort to keep the door locked, (denying the Captain entrance), the C0-pilot lost consciousness before regaining control of the plane and leveling out decent. The "normal breathing" heard in the retrieved tapes is the unconscious Co-pilot. (Interesting scenario.)


Germanwings Flight 9525…Emerging Anomalies
http://www.cabaltimes.com/2015/03/26/germanwings9525/

One of the main sources I am using in this developing stage is the Professional Pilot’s Rumour Network.
http://www.pprune.org/ - main blog site
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france.html - forum discussion

Edit=Quote
 
According to The Times the capitan tried to smash the door of the cockpit with an axe...

Well, it's getting hotter :cool2:

Axe, hay fork, shovel, saw...just normal stuff on the plane :cool2:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4394379.ece
 
Kasia said:
According to The Times the capitan tried to smash the door of the cockpit with an axe...

Well, it's getting hotter :cool2:

Axe, hay fork, shovel, saw...just normal stuff on the plane :cool2:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4394379.ece

Fire axe, I assume.

Fire/crash axe/crowbar. Fire axes were provided to obtain emergency access to areas and parts of the airplane which are not easily accessible (e.g. behind sidewall, electrical or ceiling panels). The handle is insulated to protect against electric shock. In the past, fire axes might be found in the flight deck and in the passenger cabin but on most carriers, in compliance with anti-terrorism regulations and procedures, axes are no longer carried and have been replaced by insulated crowbars in the passenger/cargo compartment.

Quote from: http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Cabin_Fire
 
Keit said:
Something tells me it isn't a regular outage.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/amsterdam-s-schiphol-airport-cancels-all-flights-1.2155661

All flights to and from Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport were cancelled on Friday following a major power outage in the Dutch capital and surrounding region, an airport spokeswoman said.

She said all incoming flights to Europe’s fourth largest airport were being diverted to other regional airports. “We are experiencing a lot of problems due to the outage,” she said.

Well, this is just a feeling, but this definitely doesn't sit right with me. The 4th largest airport in Europe doesn't have adequate backup generators?

I suspect this is all the result of some weird "earth zaps" and "opening up" and that kind of thing, and they're madly trying to cover it all up with normal explanations.

For example, what if the pilots actually thought they were flying normally, and then they just hit the mountain because they literally thought they were on course? Like bleedthrough and that sort of thing.

All the other "news" we've heard could be complete BS.

Well, that's my conspiracy theory! :cool2:
 
Things that we can assume to be true:

- Given the lack of a survival instinct from the co-pilot, he had no idea the plane was on a gradual descent.
- Given that it hit a mountain plus given the above assumption, he probably didn't see the mountain, otherwise he would have taken some corrective actions.
- Given the above 2, the co-pilot would not have physically closed the cabin door, rather that door could not open due to other reasons.
- Given that there was banging on the door and still no answers from the co-pilot, we can assume he could not hear the actual banging on the door.

Given all the above, we have a perfect case for some twilight zone high strangeness stuff.

The stuff the media is running with about a break up with his gf, him being depressed etc, well this can just be people trying to make things fit so that the whole thing has a good understandable explanation so everyone can go back to sleep. Oh, yeah, he was dumped recently, he had mental issues, that explains it.. phew! case closed, back to bed everyone! However, this is not saying it could not be true that this were reasons.

An assassination attempt, well, to crash a whole plane to kill a person in an attempt to mask the target.. well straight out of a political pyschological thriller that one. Whoever this person was, they must have been quite high profile in some way to warrant such a dastardly act.

Brain chip... for that to happen, they would need access to the co-pilot and probably the plane as well. It'll be interesting to see who serviced the plane last. They would also probably have spiked the captain's food somehow to make him have to go to the toilet mid flight.... given that peers were saying the co-pilot was acting totally normal in the last few days, then this chip must be supremely high tech, like 4D high tech.

Uhmm.... what else is left? Hmmm... mechanical failure... well that's a no go.

Overhead meteor... how would that explain the calm breathing?

What about plane was remotely flown and door remotely locked? Is this possible? But what is the motive? Maybe a message to some European countries e.g. Germany, about playing ball? Like, look what we can do... don't mess with us. Co-pilot probably sent to sleep and the pilot having to use the toilet was completely unexpected... if he were in the cabin, he would also been sent to sleep?

More speculations.
 
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