Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Timey]

Can you turn that fear around so that it becomes a determination not to be "bothered" by entities? I mention it because it worked for me years ago. You might think of fear as something that happens to you, beyond your control, but in my experience it more like "tuning." Adjust the dial and see what happens.

Could this be explained as having your center of gravity in the intellectual center as opposed to the emotional center? So the "tuning" could mean moving your center of gravity, or bringing attention toward the discomfort instead of identifying with it. With that seems to come a sense of control or a feeling of freedom. As the C's have said: "blast your mind open!"

I would have normally thought that predominantly being in the intellectual center was a "bad" thing. But now I am thinking otherwise. Maybe with a more awakened emotional center (from practice of EE) we start to be able to use our intellect the way it was meant to be used. Being able to discern emotions from thought, and being more sensitive toward the emotionally-influenced thinking. This quote by Approaching Infinity triggered my thinking in this direction:

There are three aspects that you are able to see in different friends of yours - where is to be found their centre of gravity, their individuality. Of your three friends, one has his centre of gravity in his mind; another is like a cow with centre of gravity in his body; the third is like an hysterical woman, he manipulates for everything. ... There isn't a better illustration for the emotional centre than the hysterical woman. She feels everything, even what doesn't exist. (p. 61)

You have a weakness, a sickness; you must not think with your feeling; you must think with your head. To think with your feeling is a weakness, a sickness. The beginning comes from feeling and the centre of thought is only a function. But the centre of gravity must be the thought. And now you can know what is individuality. It is when your centre of gravity is in your thought. So, if your centre of gravity is not in your thought, you are not an individual, you are an automaton. It's a simple explanation. Every man should try to accustom himself to being an individual, an independent person, something, not merde (excuse the word), not an animal, dog, cat. It is a very simple symptom. If you concentrate your being in your thought, you are an individual; there are many degrees among individuals, but that isn't important for the moment. You are an individual when you have your centre of gravity in the thinking centre. And if it is in another centre, you are only an automaton. It can be in your body and in your feeling, but when you work you should always have for aim to be in your thought. And this do consciously. If you do not, everything does itself unconsciously in you. Your work should be exclusively to concentrate yourself in your thought. It's a simple explanation. (p. 75-76)

edit: added quote and more explanation

I've only just began study of Gurdjieff's teachings but, forgive me if I'm wrong, it sounds like what you are referring to is "Higher Emotional" function. Because it is equally emotional and intellectual in its functioning. I guess by emotional it does not mean negative emotions such as fear, because that would be a lower emotional function (I think). I'm also aware that fear relies on some degree of self-allowance. But I am still working on my discipline.

It just freaked me out because it was so sudden and vivid. I've also seen a lot of UFO's in my life, I've been scared of them since I was a kid. Not so much now, but at times.
Its interesting that now I have a lingering fear while doing Prayer of the Soul, whereas before I felt totally protected and at ease. It stops me from becoming fully relaxed.

Can you turn that fear around so that it becomes a determination not to be "bothered" by entities? I mention it because it worked for me years ago. You might think of fear as something that happens to you, beyond your control, but in my experience it more like "tuning." Adjust the dial and see what happens.

I managed to do this about a year ago. But I became "out of tune" so to speak. I am close to developing that skill again :)

 

[beetlemaniac]

Can you turn that fear around so that it becomes a determination not to be "bothered" by entities? I mention it because it worked for me years ago. You might think of fear as something that happens to you, beyond your control, but in my experience it more like "tuning." Adjust the dial and see what happens.

Could this be explained as having your center of gravity in the intellectual center as opposed to the emotional center? So the "tuning" could mean moving your center of gravity, or bringing attention toward the discomfort instead of identifying with it. With that seems to come a sense of control or a feeling of freedom. As the C's have said: "blast your mind open!"

I would have normally thought that predominantly being in the intellectual center was a "bad" thing. But now I am thinking otherwise. Maybe with a more awakened emotional center (from practice of EE) we start to be able to use our intellect the way it was meant to be used. Being able to discern emotions from thought, and being more sensitive toward the emotionally-influenced thinking. This quote by Approaching Infinity triggered my thinking in this direction:

There are three aspects that you are able to see in different friends of yours - where is to be found their centre of gravity, their individuality. Of your three friends, one has his centre of gravity in his mind; another is like a cow with centre of gravity in his body; the third is like an hysterical woman, he manipulates for everything. ... There isn't a better illustration for the emotional centre than the hysterical woman. She feels everything, even what doesn't exist. (p. 61)

You have a weakness, a sickness; you must not think with your feeling; you must think with your head. To think with your feeling is a weakness, a sickness. The beginning comes from feeling and the centre of thought is only a function. But the centre of gravity must be the thought. And now you can know what is individuality. It is when your centre of gravity is in your thought. So, if your centre of gravity is not in your thought, you are not an individual, you are an automaton. It's a simple explanation. Every man should try to accustom himself to being an individual, an independent person, something, not merde (excuse the word), not an animal, dog, cat. It is a very simple symptom. If you concentrate your being in your thought, you are an individual; there are many degrees among individuals, but that isn't important for the moment. You are an individual when you have your centre of gravity in the thinking centre. And if it is in another centre, you are only an automaton. It can be in your body and in your feeling, but when you work you should always have for aim to be in your thought. And this do consciously. If you do not, everything does itself unconsciously in you. Your work should be exclusively to concentrate yourself in your thought. It's a simple explanation. (p. 75-76)

edit: added quote and more explanation

I've only just began study of Gurdjieff's teachings but, forgive me if I'm wrong, it sounds like what you are referring to is "Higher Emotional" function. Because it is equally emotional and intellectual in its functioning. I guess by emotional it does not mean negative emotions such as fear, because that would be a lower emotional function (I think). I'm also aware that fear relies on some degree of self-allowance. But I am still working on my discipline.

From what I know the Higher emotional center can only be channeled once the lower centers operate in the way that they should. The higher centers are already working properly, and we can only affect change through our lower centers. So through EE, we start to awaken the lower emotional center by processing our backlog of emotions. Maybe you could say that those unprocessed emotional issues are what's causing our lower centers functioning badly and out of touch with the higher centers.

 

[bupple]

One more question, how are u supposed to breathe during the meditation? pipe breathing or normal diaphram breathing?

 

[mcb]

Can you turn that fear around so that it becomes a determination not to be "bothered" by entities? I mention it because it worked for me years ago. You might think of fear as something that happens to you, beyond your control, but in my experience it more like "tuning." Adjust the dial and see what happens.

Could this be explained as having your center of gravity in the intellectual center as opposed to the emotional center? So the "tuning" could mean moving your center of gravity, or bringing attention toward the discomfort instead of identifying with it. With that seems to come a sense of control or a feeling of freedom. As the C's have said: "blast your mind open!"

I actually don't know. The first time I did this I was lying awake in bed when I was visited by some sort of apparition (at which point I sat up). I can no longer remember what I did to invite such a thing, and it was not the first I had seen, but I did not like what I was seeing. It's hard to explain (which is why I was vague earlier) but instead of reacting in fear, which didn't seem like a good idea, I adopted an attitude of "shoo!" and behaved like it was my room (which it was) and I was in charge. Whatever I did, it worked.

I have since done this at other junctures in my life where I was feeling overwhelmed. I took the "overwhelmed" feeling and turned it into an "in charge" feeling. I have never tried to understand it; I just DO it.

 

[SeekinTruth]

One more question, how are u supposed to breathe during the meditation? pipe breathing or normal diaphram breathing?

You start out with pipe breathing and then transition into normal diaphragm breathing (but still in through the nose, out through the mouth -- this is the case throughout the entire program, including belly breathing between the stages of 3 stage breathing) just before the meditation starts. Are you following the audio? Because Laura says to do some pipe breathing before the meditation/Prayer of the Soul starts.

 

[Ollie]

One more question, how are u supposed to breathe during the meditation? pipe breathing or normal diaphram breathing?

You start out with pipe breathing and then transition into normal diaphragm breathing (but still in through the nose, out through the mouth -- this is the case throughout the entire program, including belly breathing between the stages of 3 stage breathing) just before the meditation starts. Are you following the audio? Because Laura says to do some pipe breathing before the meditation/Prayer of the Soul starts.

You may find that the transition into 'normal breathing' happens automatically when you are ready to do so during PotS.

A relatively quiet week, for me, it was one of experiencing wet-eyes and yawning during three-stage breathing on Monday, and yawning during PotS. Outside of the formal sessions, after reciting PotS before sleep, on awakening to visit the bathroom, my eyes are wet.

 

[bupple]

One last question : Does it really matter if u do the program while your'e on medication, like antidepressants (SSRI)?

 

[SeekinTruth]

One last question : Does it really matter if u do the program while your'e on medication, like antidepressants (SSRI)?

As far as I know, Beatha/Bioenergetic/Round breathing is contraindicated (NOT recommended) for such a situation.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Can you turn that fear around so that it becomes a determination not to be "bothered" by entities? I mention it because it worked for me years ago. You might think of fear as something that happens to you, beyond your control, but in my experience it more like "tuning." Adjust the dial and see what happens.

Could this be explained as having your center of gravity in the intellectual center as opposed to the emotional center? So the "tuning" could mean moving your center of gravity, or bringing attention toward the discomfort instead of identifying with it. With that seems to come a sense of control or a feeling of freedom. As the C's have said: "blast your mind open!"

I actually don't know. The first time I did this I was lying awake in bed when I was visited by some sort of apparition (at which point I sat up). I can no longer remember what I did to invite such a thing, and it was not the first I had seen, but I did not like what I was seeing. It's hard to explain (which is why I was vague earlier) but instead of reacting in fear, which didn't seem like a good idea, I adopted an attitude of "shoo!" and behaved like it was my room (which it was) and I was in charge. Whatever I did, it worked.

I have since done this at other junctures in my life where I was feeling overwhelmed. I took the "overwhelmed" feeling and turned it into an "in charge" feeling. I have never tried to understand it; I just DO it.

I think I perceived what you meant as entities to be emotional issues. From your clarification, I guess it's probably not as simple as that (although they could be related). I have experienced something that could be called entities before. I remember getting afraid and then angry at the thing, but I was in an hypnogogic or lucid dreaming state which was broken as soon as I "retaliated". Something like that while awake would be totally different. I'm thinking of ways to explain this and your experience but there's too much room for wiseacring to explain things like this in Work terms I suppose.

 

[mcb]

I think I perceived what you meant as entities to be emotional issues. From your clarification, I guess it's probably not as simple as that (although they could be related). I have experienced something that could be called entities before. I remember getting afraid and then angry at the thing, but I was in an hypnogogic or lucid dreaming state which was broken as soon as I "retaliated". Something like that while awake would be totally different. I'm thinking of ways to explain this and your experience but there's too much room for wiseacring to explain things like this in Work terms I suppose.

The first event, 8 1/2 years ago (and not long after discovering Laura & the C's), was an entity encounter, the last one I ever had of that nature. I had been experimenting and this one was scary enough that I had had enough. I brought it up only because of Timey's account of something that happened during EE. I have encountered nothing like that with EE, but if it did happen to me then I would deal with the intrusion rather than let it stand in the way of doing POTS.

The subsequent occasions have involved "circumstances" rather than entities. They were points in my life where I was feeling overwhelmed and not at all in control. As with the entity encounter, I adjusted my perception of the situation and took control. I imagine that this has to do with growing up in a narcissistic family environment and not recognizing what I am able to do.

 

[hiker]

ust did the three stage breathing and the warrior's breath. Bruno (my English springer spaniel) was going crazy, he wanted to get on the sofa, and was running there and back and whining. My thoughts were running, but I kept bringing myself back into focus. So consciously I wanted to just be in the now and focus on my body and on my breathing. When I started the warrior's breathe, Bruno was going even more crazy he got on the sofa, but I ignored him all the time and was doing the WB with my eyes shut. So, because he got near me and, obviously, I was moving my arms up and down he got hit in the jaw twice, then he jumped off, went on his bed (I think so, I was not looking at him, but could still hear him), then, when I was almost finished with the last one, he jumped on the sofa, and when I leaned back to relax he got on my knees, and, most unexpectedly, I just started laughing nearly hysterically. It lasted a longer while, and it felt so good. I am still grinning while writing that. Also, I think, that was the loudest I shouted 'ha!', since I started doing the EE, or maybe it is just my impression...Anyway, that was really good. That was truly amazing experience. I know, the dog got hit, but he did not seem to mind, he did not whine when that happened or anything. Anyway, he is not allowed on the sofa until I let him, so he should not have been there anyway. He did not get hurt, just a note on the side...

My dog does exactly the same thing and he goes ballistic when I start warrior's breath. I have to lock him out of my room when I do EE because I start laughing myself as it is really funny and then I can't concentrate. He scratches at the door for a bit then calms down. I tried the ignoring thing like yourself but I ended up hitting him with my elbow also so I figured its safer for both of us if hes locked out. ;)

One time I was "dogsitting" for a relative's dog (I don't have a dog of my own), and did the three stage breathing followed by the warrior's breath. The dog became very curious, sitting on guard next to me and trying to climb in my lap a few times during the 3 stage breathing. With the warrior's breath he went ballistic too, jumping on my lap and licking my face. I pretty much had to stop there, as I was laughing uncontrollably, with the dog on my lap

One thing I have noticed is, that during the POTS sometimes my hands seem to get very warm, as if they were filled with hot water. In one case I placed my right hand on my abdomen and the left on my chest. After removing the hands, I still could feel hot spots on the abdomen and chest for a while, as if hot water bottles had lied there.

 

[whitecoast]

I have a question about the Beatha portion of the breathing program. It is contraindicated for those who take drugs that alter one's brain chemistry. I take dexedrine to help focus at work, and it's technically an amphetamine, but a mild one. Should I be avoiding the bioenergetic breathing until the main effects are gone, until the aftereffects (like insomnia) leave my system, for weekends when I don't use it at all, or not until I get off the drug itself?

I've been having a rough time doing Beatha, so I've been restricting it to a dozen or so round breaths before titrating it with pipe breathing. I've also had this experience when I went a week without dexedrine, so I don't think it is exclusively related. But I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Ollie]

I have a question about the Beatha portion of the breathing program. It is contraindicated for those who take drugs that alter one's brain chemistry. I take dexedrine to help focus at work, and it's technically an amphetamine, but a mild one. Should I be avoiding the bioenergetic breathing until the main effects are gone, until the aftereffects (like insomnia) leave my system, for weekends when I don't use it at all, or not until I get off the drug itself?

I've been having a rough time doing Beatha, so I've been restricting it to a dozen or so round breaths before titrating it with pipe breathing. I've also had this experience when I went a week without dexedrine, so I don't think it is exclusively related. But I'd like to hear your thoughts.

From the fact that you say you are having a rough time and suffering from insomnia, yes - take notice of what your body is telling you - stop doing Beatha completely until your body returns to normal - even if that means waiting until you are off the drug itself. Personally, since starting doing EE from the very beginning, I've spent more time not doing Beatha breathing than doing it. Remember that PotS is the most important part of the EE programme followed by three stage pipe breathing.

This may help, or not.

 

[whitecoast]

Thanks for your response Prodigal Son. The insomnia has passed, and has only really been an issue if working late shifts. Since I have a 9-5 job now it's a non-issue. It still indicates my system is still being influenced by it until up to 15 hours after I take it though. Unfortunately PotS is the least often thing I do :/ I don't know if it's because I'm doing it wrong, or if I'm not as enthusiastic about expecting results, or if some buffer from my atheist days dismisses prayer altogether. I'll try and scale back on Beatha and up doing the prayer. Thanks again.

 

[Ollie]

Hi whitecoast,
you may find it beneficial to do a few pipe-breathes before going to sleep each night, it will calm you down and prepare you for sleep - as will following this with reciting PotS immediately before 'nodding off'. This has the additional benefits of further relaxing you before sleep, and most importantly, will set up your unconscious mind for working during sleep. Again, doing all of this free of anticipation of any sort of result, wish, and/or concern for self, just let whatever happen, happen. :) Often you may go for a long time reciting PotS without anything significantly appearing to happen, but, everytime that you either recite or listen to PotS the results are cumulative. So, the more often you do it, the more effective it becomes.

Also, remember, that PotS is 'worded' as acceptable for all, including those who have atheistic leanings (either past or present). If the word 'prayer' acts as a buffer, change the word 'prayer' to 'a set of affirmations'.

This may help, or not.

As for my experiences this week, I'm still just doing the three-stage pipe breathing and PotS only on Mondays and Thursday. On Monday, we-eyes and yawning, followed by my right foot and big toe twitching during PotS, and tears at the end. Whilst on Thursday, I experienced wet-eyes again and zoned almost immediately once Laura started reciting Pots, coming to at the end of the music.