Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Human]

On the night that I dedicated my 'sleeping session' to Laura and her family, I had great difficulty getting through the words and completing each round of the Prayer. However, I managed it and my eyes were wet at the end.

I had very similar experience last night. Dedicated session to Laura and her family, and experienced lots of swallowing and some really heavy coughing. Also, there were some very unusual word fumbling during POTS meditation. But, at the end, I managed to go through all this and found my eyes were as wet as I was crying the whole time while meditating.

 

[RedFox]

An update on this week's experiences with the Breathing-Meditation programme.

For a change it was relatively uneventful, both during and between sessions. As usual I zoned out after Laura started reading the Prayer of the Soul, coming too well into the music. On the night that I dedicated my 'sleeping session' to Laura and her family, I had great difficulty getting through the words and completing each round of the Prayer. However, I managed it and my eyes were wet at the end.

Did I miss a dedication?? I've been away for a few days....
*edit* found it...my heart and thoughts go out to you and your family Laura.

As I was walking toward him and looking back at him the weirdest sensations started happening. Everything peripherally went out of focus; there seemed to be only him and me in the room. The hair on the back of my neck literally stood up. Time seemed to slow down--it seemed to take forever to cross the room. He appeared to be wearing different clothes than what he had on when I first looked at him--they were now black and with, I know this sounds so dramatically cliche but I really saw it this way, a cape. I start to sweat and feel intense fear--I believed I was in the presence of pure evil and he was grinning at me! It felt like I was walking in water or jello, but I managed to look away and turn back to the kitchen--someone else waited on him.

I've never been in a situation like that....yet what you describe is so familiar...its like remembering something that was intense you've forgotten the details too. Something to add to the memories I need to explore.
fwiw I think your instincts where spot on with this guy. It also sounds like he was trying the gaze (mentioned a few posts above yours) that psychopaths use to 'hypnotise' there victims....which is probably why you didn't get it again, because it didn't work first time.
I can recall a similar state in a near miss in a car once (everything slows down etc)....I would imagine that coming face to face with a lion etc would produce the same effects.

Regarding this "seeing the unseen", I have since a longer time ago - including before E-E, though well after finding this place - sometimes noticed and "felt" (as opposed to simply thought about) the mechanicalness of people's behavior, how they react and interact according to meaningless scripts. I have also sometimes seen (in combination with the former) as described by others the predator's mind in people - though not yet the "eye"-look thing. (those things seen also perceived in myself)

For me it is a 'felt', even if its something I'm 'feeling' thought my eyes. The best way I could describe it is extra information that is there to be read/seen....but in a way that gets translated more closely to felt+information.....
I support all this 'seeing the unseen' reminds me of the sun glasses from the film They Live, where there was hidden information you could see when you put them on.....if you can't quite see it, perhaps that's why it comes across as more of a 'felt'???? You feel the influence of the information, rather than see the information clearly.

I wish I could be talking to you all in person, I am terrible when it comes to writing my thoughts on a screen. I think too much and that is blocking what I really want to say.

fwiw I thought you expressed your thoughts well. Have you considered that perhaps its the predators mind/negative introject that 'thinks' (tells you) that you are 'terrible at writing your thoughts on a screen'??? Perhaps the 'thinking too much that blocks what you want to say' are its thoughts as well??
Besides the more you express here in writing, the more practiced you will be at expressing yourself in writing :)

I too have "seen" this in people. For much of my life, in fact. What I eventually came to conclude (I don't feel this way now) was that there was something wrong with me. I ended up feeling uncomfortable/self conscious with it and developed a problem with looking at people. This, in turn, led me I think to having social anxiety which was and still is debilitating.

Over the last year and a half, I was also seeing this in children (insert demonic child movie here) which really freaked me out.

Perhaps I'll start a thread about social anxiety if there isn't one already...

Same here, I'd never considered it in such terms but the description of a social anxiety that is debilitating really does fit well with what I had. And still have in minor ways. Interestingly I'm reaching the point where during social interactions I can see more clearly, self observe more and understand enough about myself to be able to question these beliefs/self images as they arise....and so far I've been able to question and drop many limiting beliefs about myself :)
If you can't find an appropriate thread please do create one as I'd be interested to read it and perhaps try and explain what my understanding is at the moment regarding social phobias/anxieties.

What I do now (as practice and I may be completely off in this technique so again, corrections welcome) is to observe it with the intent of not projecting anything (this is towards people that I perceive as being threatening). They will usually look away/back off.

I do this too. Infact I think its kind of my default state when I self remember. I try to 'listen' to everything and limit my projections into the world....I don't even think 'I see you' if I notice anyone who may or may not be a predator....just noticing them with intent observation seems to be enough. Another aspect to this is not to be judgmental and not to expect anything.

I remember a month or two ago (around the start of the E-E program) walking into work past a guy I'd seen once or twice...this time however I noticed something subtle I'd not seen before....he averted his eyes and looked down slightly (the way someone who is shy may do unconsciously)....what got my attention was that it 'felt' conscious....it felt like he knew exactly what he was doing, down to the last subtle movement. That put the hairs up on the back of my neck!
Part of me tried to hide the fact I'd 'seen him'....another part just calmly observed him in a lot of detail....to gether data perhaps?

I remember reading that psychopaths seem to have instant recognition of there own kind, perhaps they can also 'see the unseen'??? I don't know if all this will let us spot predators more easily or not...but it sure is interesting! I wonder how we would perceive each other once this is more refined/practiced??

I honestly have no idea if that's even relevent....dreams being totally subjective things....but to say I've had a few where I realised something was crawling about in my head, only to leave itself open to read its thoughts....has happened many times in my life.

Can you explain this further?

Ok, like the dream I described above it is usually of the 'alien' variety....something in the dream would catch my attention (in the dream above, which was the last one so far it was staring at an alien), and I would become aware that something 'other' was in my head....it is similar to the 'felt knowledge' I described above. My understanding is it has an energetic component...but this is speculation.
Instead of the 'felt knowledge' being external, it is inside your head...and it is searching for something or doing something....it is parasitic and invasive.
What I learnt in the dream was once I became aware of 'it' I could learn information from it....hear its conversations (about me to others)...and get into 'its head' via this same energy.
Its like establishing a network connection....once there is a link it runs two ways.
So I took the opportunity to project back the thought "see, now I'm in Your heads....now you know what its like" implying it was not a nice thing to do....they where not best pleased.

Looking back however I realise that if it was more than a dream and knowing what I know now, I'd rather 'it' not be in my head at all. And I certainly don't want to go wondering around its head....that makes me no better than they are.
But for all I know they are just dreams and nothing more....and I'm probably going way off topic.
I really need a cigarette!

 

[Bluestar]

Back in my early twenties, being very ill (not necessary to go into details) I had meet an East Indian man that was an astrologer, naturopath who was helping me get well using my astrology chart. While healing, I was having crazy thoughts everyday. Mostly about fears, where something from a horror movie would pop in my head while walking down a busy street. Telling him about these thoughts he said that I should not look into anyones eyes directly. I was like a sponge and was picking up their thoughts and my mind was transforming them into my fears because I was vulnerable due to my weakened state (feeding the predator,hmmmn). So I took his advice and while walking around the city or at work, unless I had to, I would not look at people's eyes. After some time, maybe a month or two, the thoughts subsided. I also refused to feed the thoughts. As I got better they were less and less. After becoming well I was able to look people in the eyes and protect myself, though seeing the eyes totally different, on a another level of awareness I think.

Yes I believe the eyes are mirrors to the self, the inner being of a person. Yet I also find so many eyes lifeless. Especially when you see pictures of criminals in the news. Just borrowed from the local library & started reading Political Ponerology, learning so much about this.

 

[truth seeker]

I too have "seen" this in people. For much of my life, in fact. What I eventually came to conclude (I don't feel this way now) was that there was something wrong with me. I ended up feeling uncomfortable/self conscious with it and developed a problem with looking at people. This, in turn, led me I think to having social anxiety which was and still is debilitating.

Over the last year and a half, I was also seeing this in children (insert demonic child movie here) which really freaked me out.

Perhaps I'll start a thread about social anxiety if there isn't one already...

Same here, I'd never considered it in such terms but the description of a social anxiety that is debilitating really does fit well with what I had. And still have in minor ways. Interestingly I'm reaching the point where during social interactions I can see more clearly, self observe more and understand enough about myself to be able to question these beliefs/self images as they arise....and so far I've been able to question and drop many limiting beliefs about myself :)
If you can't find an appropriate thread please do create one as I'd be interested to read it and perhaps try and explain what my understanding is at the moment regarding social phobias/anxieties.

I've started it. The closest I could find was the Negative Introject thread and the Networking and Introverts thread which are also helpful. I was also thinking that perhaps the moderators may want to move the second discussion regarding seeing the unseen to the thread the Puck started a while back so as not to disturb the EE thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1797.0

Note to moderator: Please excuse me if I've overstepped any boundaries.

 

[Gertrudes]

A quick update on the last EE sessions.
A few weeks (maybe months?) ago, during EE I felt something in my chest, a sensation bordering deep heat and deep cold, I think I have posted that before. Those were 2 isolated events, and I thought that would be the end of it. It wasn't. Last 3 EE sessions the sensation came back and much, much stronger. Yesterday I couldn't even concentrate! Last Thursday the feeling started at around the end of BaHa, this Tuesday at the beginning of Baha, and yesterday It started during the second round of the pipe breath lasting for the full program. Now, the 1st time it happened weeks ago, I found it an interesting experience, but now, it is almost becoming disturbing...I mean, there is a really STRONG physical sensation in my chest, and it gets stronger and stronger in such a way that I kept moving yesterday to try to get it out. It feels like a tiger balm or a minty cream being put inside my chest and then spreading out. Besides that, there is also a feeling...like a ball in my chest..it is starting again as I am writting this now I really don't know what it is but it isn't very comfortable, it doesn't go away and it made me almost stop EE yesterday....
well, I really needed to take this off my chest

On a different note, I would like to share some experiences regarding eyes and seeing, Truth Seeker, is the thread you opened intended for that? Sorry for the dumb question, it's just that I was about to post something about eyes and then read your post and considered that yes, if it is intended for that it might be better for me to do so there

 

[Tina]

As for semantic aphasia, I can direct you to the following (my emphasis in quotes):

Thanks Csayeursost,

I'm only asking because I don't really know what semantic aphasia is and I looked up aphasia and I feel I only partly understand what [Incognito] stated.

I didn't have a name for what I was seeing until I read something that Laura wrote about it (somewhere in the sites vast amount of info), but I'm not finding the particular description in it in the links Csayeursost provided. I also couldn't find it in my own search.

I'll do my best to describe the phenomenon.

In his need to be right, logic made no difference. When I would make make an obvious true statement that went against a point he was trying to make, his eyes would freeze-nobody was home, it was like a robot that didn't have that particular chip installed- it looked like he was unable to process a truth if it went against his programming, beliefs or wants. It was really bizarre and I didn't know what to make of it at the time. I thought he was standing there trying to find a way to make his point true when there was no logical way to do so, so he was frozen, or his brain had stalled and then he changed the subject. It was as if the previous conversation had never occurred. That's the best I can do as far as an explanation.

Maybe someone here will know which excerpt I'm remembering or can provide a better description, hopefully.

 

[Oxajil]

During the EE program I was thinking about two things that occurred to me, apologies if these are already mentioned elsewhere;

- While doing the three stage breathing I was thinking about my brother who watched a stand up comedian. I thought it was a waste of time by him, that he could've used that 'time' to read maybe. But then I thought, maybe I'm wrong. Because he laughed a lot when he was watching (and loud too) and I remembered reading that Laughing is healthy. He also happened to be ill, so I thought, maybe it's a good thing. To just dissociate maybe and laugh, to give the body a way to heal itself. And then I remembered what Laura said about the Ba-Ha: when you say ''Ha'' you breath out all the things that you don't need for your life, toxins etc. and I started to connect the ''Hahahahaha'' (from laughing, I know, not all people laugh like that, but it made me think, perhaps symbolic?) to the ''Ha'' from the bioenergetic breathing. I just thought that it was funny :) Maybe laughing is like a speed-mode of the ''breathing out toxins etc'', because it's many Ha's in a row :P

- A lot of people I think may have trouble with their thoughts wandering off during the program (like me).
Well I thought about it. And as I'm doing the breathing I listen to Laura saying ''Breath in, two three four...'' repeatedly, non-stop.
I started to imagine that she was sitting right in front of me and she was saying that. I breath and she counts for me.

And I realized how hard it would be to make no mistake in counting. I think it takes some concentration on Laura's part to count for me, because if she makes a mistake on the counting (which can happen by wandering off for a moment) it will take our concentration away and we both might end up confused for a moment. So if you look at the one who does the counting, who tells you when to do the Warriors breath and how, the bioenergetic breathing (saying Ba-Ha continuously in the right way with the right lengths!) and then the Prayer of the Soul, you can see that that person puts quite some energy in it to stay focused and to guide you the best way the person can. And the best comfortable way.

And imagine, that, while she is sitting in front of you, all focused on what she says with all her Being while you are thinking about what kind of food you ate, what people said about you at work, how you disliked the weather today while your body does the breathing mechanically, I mean... there is some kind of imbalance of input there.

So I thought about that and I started to concentrate on what she said and tried to breath with my Whole body while picturing myself with Laura. This realization kind of lit my body up. As if a heat wave went from my toes to my head in a funny way.

edit: I'm not sure if I can call it a 'realization', more like just a 'thought'. I think it could be a method that might help you to concentrate better.

By the way, I don't think that thinking about other things is wrong during the program.
I wouldn't come to these thoughts if I weren't thinking :P.
Just thought I'd shared. Thank you for reading.

 

[Oxajil]

About looking in people's eyes:

Always when I walk on the street I avoid looking most strangers in the eye. Especially men.
I've always done this, especially when we moved to a city (used to live in a village). I just don't trust people at all. And there is this instinct that tells me that when you look someone in the eyes, you make some kind of contact. Like, you make yourself ''present''.
So I just wanted to avoid this contact, I didn't want to be ''present''.

What Redfox said here: it felt like whatever was behind the eyes noticed me notice it....and I would know it knew I'd noticed it

It's different when I'm with people who I know. I do look them in the eyes.

Same with babies, young children and some women. They actually make me smile when I look at them.

 

[Beau]

About looking in people's eyes:

Always when I walk on the street I avoid looking most strangers in the eye.

Well, I come from the American "midwestern hospitality" region where it's very common to look everyone in the eyes when passing by them while walking down the street and simultaneously saying hello or nodding your head towards them. But I do know that in bigger cities this is not the case and that, for the most part, people just want to be left alone. I think it's just a difference in culture and small town vs. big town mentality.

 

[Laura]

A quick update on the last EE sessions.
A few weeks (maybe months?) ago, during EE I felt something in my chest, a sensation bordering deep heat and deep cold, I think I have posted that before. Those were 2 isolated events, and I thought that would be the end of it. It wasn't. Last 3 EE sessions the sensation came back and much, much stronger. Yesterday I couldn't even concentrate! Last Thursday the feeling started at around the end of BaHa, this Tuesday at the beginning of Baha, and yesterday It started during the second round of the pipe breath lasting for the full program. Now, the 1st time it happened weeks ago, I found it an interesting experience, but now, it is almost becoming disturbing...I mean, there is a really STRONG physical sensation in my chest, and it gets stronger and stronger in such a way that I kept moving yesterday to try to get it out. It feels like a tiger balm or a minty cream being put inside my chest and then spreading out. Besides that, there is also a feeling...like a ball in my chest..it is starting again as I am writting this now I really don't know what it is but it isn't very comfortable, it doesn't go away and it made me almost stop EE yesterday....
well, I really needed to take this off my chest

On a different note, I would like to share some experiences regarding eyes and seeing, Truth Seeker, is the thread you opened intended for that? Sorry for the dumb question, it's just that I was about to post something about eyes and then read your post and considered that yes, if it is intended for that it might be better for me to do so there

Always, if there is discomfort, stop the bioenergetic breathing and just do the relaxing and the prayer. You should skip the round breathing for a period and just do the daily meditation and pipe breathing.

 

[Z...]

Well as they say in both in English and my language "eyes are the mirror of the soul", and I certainly always try to look people in the eyes when interacting with them. This is what my parents taught me.
I think the clues are always there, it just that our rational mind doesn't allow us to give importance to these clues.
Maybe EE helps with calibration of our reading instrument.
I can report the same thing as Mada, in fact as of recently it seems that interactions with people, especially my reactions to people have been moved to entirely different level.
But I certainly need to observe this "new quality to my being" a bit more before I can properly describe

 

[Gertrudes]

Always, if there is discomfort, stop the bioenergetic breathing and just do the relaxing and the prayer. You should skip the round breathing for a period and just do the daily meditation and pipe breathing.

Thank you Laura. Yeah, I should know that by now, you've said that a few times in this thread already... as odd as it might sound, I guess it took me a while to actually understand it wasn't being comfortable!
Yet, the sensation is lasting till today. Milder, of course, but still there. Funny thing is that I can't really put my finger on my emotional state, I can't quite comprehend how I am feeling at the moment which is not usual for me. While doing the program yesterday, I think I had a glimpse, for the first time, of what could mean actually "getting it all out"... I had this tiny weeny feeling that when and if it does come out, I am going to scream until I no longer have voice...

About looking in people's eyes:

Always when I walk on the street I avoid looking most strangers in the eye. Especially men.

Me to. I had a few problems with this really. There was a period of my life when I was feeling extremely drained due to my life circumstances. Looking people in the eyes, particularly in the street, became almost unbarable. At the time, I thought I was just being crazy and didn't dare confess this to anyone because I assumed I would just be discarded as paranoid. Reading all the later comments here has put that into perspective. It is interesting that it stopped completely when my life circumstances changed.

When interacting with someone however, I look people in the eyes, as Corto Maltese puts it, the clues are always there. Also, the tone of the conversation tends to be different with eye contact, perhaps deeper.

On another event, a friend of mine was once drawing my portrait, so for the obvious reasons, he needed to stare at me for quite a period o time. I will never forget this: after an hour or so, I moved slightly and our eyes crossed, as they did, suddenly and unexpectedly my vision blurred and turned completely blank. I felt something difficult to describe, but that resembles being stricken and submerged in something and my head fell back. I am not sure of what happened to him but probably something similar because I asked: "did you just feel that?", he said "yes", put his pencils aside and until today, never finished the portrait.

 

[ramaj]

I'm only asking because I don't really know what semantic aphasia is and I looked up aphasia and I feel I only partly understand what [Incognito] stated.

As for semantic aphasia, I can direct you to the following (my emphasis in quotes):

What Is a Psychopath?

PRIMARY PSYCHOPATHS do not respond to punishment, apprehension, stress, or disapproval. They seem to be able to inhibit their antisocial impulses most of the time, not because of conscience, but because it suits their purpose at the time. Words do not seem to have the same meaning for them as they do for us. In fact, it's unclear if they even grasp the meaning of their own words, a condition that Cleckley called "semantic aphasia." They don't follow any life plan, and it seems as if they are incapable of experiencing any genuine emotion.

Adventures with Cassiopaea:

[...] it seems that one of the symptoms of those who consistently make STS choices, is that they develop a kind of semantic aphasia. They may be able to grasp a certain, limited, literal meaning of a word or a concept, but they are simply unable to think any higher than that. I have observed certain people who certainly had the intellectual capacity to do so, but they didn't have the "drive." This is the result of the fact that as the STS mind is fed, the person becomes less and less able to grasp the deeper meanings of things, the hidden reality that is exemplified by the alchemist Fulcanelli in his exposition on cabala, or the "language of the birds." At the same time, those who are making the STO choices become more and more able to reach into these higher realms of pure thought.

What seems apparent to me is that this is not just a single choice, it is a daily choice, a moment by moment choice and that once an individual "wins" just one little battle against the mechanical nature of the STS reality and default choices, and moves even momentarily into that STO realm, it strengthens the ability, however incrementally, to make the next STO choice that is presented. And, for the most part, these choices have to do not only with seeing what IS, but in choosing how to respond to it: creatively or destructively, with truth or wishful thinking and narcissistic personal opinions.

People with small hippocampuses can form "procedural" memories - that is, they can learn to do things that require skill, like reading and writing, and diagramming sentences; teaching English and literature, and performing rituals and collecting data of all kinds, and even aping scholars to a sufficient extent that the non-discriminating observer is easily fooled. The problem is, they have no real ability to associate so as to do anything that is truly creative or new.

This means that they cannot and do not learn from their experiences if it requires the extraction of a principle and applying it to other situations in the realms of pure thought. As Gurdjieff noted, even great literature can be written altogether mechanically.

This, of course, makes me wonder if part of the STS problem is a small hippocampus since semantic aphasia seems to be one of the chief clues that we have noticed in dealing with such individuals.

http://cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/adventures111.htm

You can also search the forum for "semantic aphasia" for a few examples where it is pointed out.

thank you very much for taking the time to provide that for me\us.

 

[broken.english]

About looking in people's eyes:

Always when I walk on the street I avoid looking most strangers in the eye. Especially men.
I've always done this, especially when we moved to a city (used to live in a village). I just don't trust people at all. And there is this instinct that tells me that when you look someone in the eyes, you make some kind of contact. Like, you make yourself ''present''.
So I just wanted to avoid this contact, I didn't want to be ''present''.

What Redfox said here: it felt like whatever was behind the eyes noticed me notice it....and I would know it knew I'd noticed it

It's different when I'm with people who I know. I do look them in the eyes.

Same with babies, young children and some women. They actually make me smile when I look at them.

Now that you are writing this I realize that I developed similar patterns of behaviour. Latest episode is that I was out with a friend in a brewery restaurant and the waitress was so robotic that she almost spoiled my day. I don't want to look in her eyes anymore. The beer was good, though.

 

[Buddy]

I remember this one guy that I met at work, and his eyes were not only emotionless but they were also moving from right to left like in a rem sleep. Has anyone witnessed that on a person who was not asleep but talking to you in a normal conversation? I am glad that you started this topic, because I always wanted to ask someone if it is possible for a person's eyes to move like in a rem sleep while being awake. I tried to move my eyes that way but it is hard to do and I actually felt quite silly. I dont think that this individual did it on purpose or was aware of his eye movements. This happened once and shortly after he quit.

Hi Mona. There is a condition called nystagmus that could explain the phenomenon you described. It can be a congenital or acquired condition. I understand it is even present to some degree in individuals under the influence of intoxicants. Police officers use a pencil/pen to test for it during a sobriety exam. They refer to it as the horizontal gaze nystagmus test.


[quote author=_http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nystagmus]

nystagmus

Involuntary back and forth, up and down, or circular movements of the eyes that are often described by observers as "jumping" or "dancing" eye movements. One type of nystagmus, called pendular nystagmus, is characterized by even, smooth eye movements, whereas in the type referred to as jerk nystagmus the movements are sharper and quicker in one direction than in the other. Jerk nystagmus can occur normally, such as when one is dizzy (e.g., from spinning around in circles) or is watching objects pass by quickly from the window of a moving vehicle. Pathologic nystagmus may be present at or shortly after birth because of retinal or optic nerve abnormalities, cataracts, albinism, or a host of other conditions (sensory nystagmus). Alternatively, people can be born with nystagmus and no associated abnormalities of the eye (congenital motor nystagmus). Often there is a gaze or a head position that the affected individual adopts in which the nystagmus is least severe and visual acuity is optimized (called the null point).[/quote]

Physiologic nystagmus with animation here: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiologic_nystagmus