Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

Parallax said:
Well pointed out in this case Rolland JP, osit. There are many clues here for a singular individual, now separated, to ponder when faced with the soothing echos of another perhaps.
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Agreed, I really enjoyed reading that excerpt, it certainly seems to apply to this situation in many ways. Thanks, Roland JP!
 
Ljubica and Sasa don't you think this silence has gone on for long enough? It is ok to be human and make mistakes. It is why we are here after all. Just be strong enough to admit it.

I'd like you to know that everyone involved in this is responsible for each other. Everytime one of you because of ego says we should remain silent, you harm everyone else by your self-importance. This is really sad state of affairs. One of you please be strong enough to say that enough is enough, it is time we accept what has happened. Please accept you are not magicians as Gurdjieff says.
 
luke wilson said:
Ljubica and Sasa don't you think this silence has gone on for long enough? It is ok to be human and make mistakes. It is why we are here after all. Just be strong enough to admit it.

I'd like you to know that everyone involved in this is responsible for each other. Everytime one of you because of ego says we should remain silent, you harm everyone else by your self-importance. This is really sad state of affairs. One of you please be strong enough to say that enough is enough, it is time we accept what has happened. Please accept you are not magicians as Gurdjieff says.
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Luke, after all the time that has passed, I don't think there is any reason to continue asking them to say anything, let's just continue on, letting them choose their path and learn their lessons.
 
Ok.

It is very sad especially if one of them wants to change but cannot because of the whole group that says we should stick together and continue with this madness. I truly wish them the best.
 
luke wilson said:
Ok.

It is very sad especially if one of them wants to change but cannot because of the whole group that says we should stick together and continue with this madness. I truly wish them the best.
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If that was the case it is still part of the lessons, for those who need more experiences, experiences are available.
 
Roland JP said:
Your Welcome What does the acronyms "OSIT" stand for?
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"Or so I think".

For more on abbreviations used on this forum, see: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,1599.0.html
 
mocachapeau said:
I just thought I would add my thoughts on this subject.

I've read the thread through, I understand what Ljubica and Sasha have done and all the implications. I have unfriended them on FB.

I also think I have learned a few things from these events, about weakness and honesty (and a few other things, too).

I know I have weaknesses, and this story has made me examine them (the ones I am aware of) in such a way that I have to wonder how they might be exploited, or how I may allow them, to cause me to make an error that is harmful to the group or turn my back on the work, this group, or even the desire to be STO. Although I feel quite sure I would never do such a thing, that my feelings about this network and the people in it that have helped me along the way, are rock solid, I have to wonder. I don't know Sasha, but I have gotten the impression that he was very well liked, respected and trusted. So maybe something like this could happen to any one of us, given the right set of circumstances and energies.

So I have decided to work even harder at winning the battle of the "I's" whenever it breaks out. I usually know when I am doing something I shouldn't, and I go ahead and do it anyway. I even know that what I tell myself to convince me that it's okay, is a bunch of hogwash. And even if I can't see how succumbing to a particular weakness in my daily life could bring harm to this group, instead of just to myself - like drinking beer or eating gluten - I have to be aware that ANY weakness is an opening for negative influence. And that could lead to bad decision-making which has the potential of hurting the group. So I have to get stronger.

Honesty? Well, I bought myself a Ouija board about a year and a half ago. I tried it a couple of times with a friend, but nothing came of it. And it was really only part common sense that made me stop. I knew that it could take years of asking before getting any kind of contact, and that would be very time-consuming. The time I would have to spend trying would be better used Working on myself, reading, networking, etc. Also, I realized that I wasn't all that familiar with what I could ask about, that Laura hasn't already asked, so that pretty much left me with mainly personal information. And that would be a purely STS communication, something I knew I didn't want. And as others have stated, there is SO MUCH for me to learn right here at SOTT that there really wasn't any point to doing it. I wanted to get that out in the open, because I want to be more honest with the network, starting right now.

I don't know if Sasha and/or Ljubica are still logging in and reading this thread, but if so, I would like to address this to them.

Let's just say for a moment that what you have said about misunderstanding Laura's instructions about sharing these sessions on the forum are true, that you thought she meant to share them with the world. Even if no one here can understand how that is possible, if it is true, then it is a mistake. We have all made mistakes, and there is not a more forgiving group in the world (that I know of) than this one, if you are open and honest about what happened. And talk about a chance to grow!

I bet there isn't a single member of this network that hasn't had thoughts about attending a session with the C's, or making contact with a higher intelligence. The experience would be exhilarating, I think. We would all like to have the benefit of receiving some kind of personal information that might help us to understand ourselves, or the people in our lives. We would all like to have the chance to help others in this way, as well. And because of that, I think people here would be able to understand if thoughts like these influenced you to go ahead with your experiment. I know I would.

I think that your use of the word "we" in your responses was simply an attempt to shoulder the blame together, instead of pointing the finger at a single person. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, either. After all, any one of you could have been strong and refused to participate, but you all went along with it. But I think this thread has made it pretty clear why it could be important to speak up.

After reading the responses to your posts here, I can see why you might have become more and more ashamed of what you have done, surprised by the reactions you received, making it harder and harder to speak up, and that is why you have fallen silent. There have been many emotions expressed here, including outright anger. And your continued silence has led some posters to actually start mocking you openly (something I'm not too comfortable with). That can only make it harder to face up to it all.

All of these things I could understand - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - if you were to come here and talk about them honestly. I don't even feel like any of these things should be taken personally by anyone, not if the group is situationally aware. Unfortunately, we cannot be situationally aware if you don't share with us.

But there is one thing I am sure that no one would be able to understand - and would have a hard time forgiving - and that is your turning your backs on your friends. They are your friends, after all, even if they have expressed themselves quite emotionally in this thread. I have a hard time believing, after hearing what good things people have said about you, that you are full-blown psychopaths. I think you would have to be to pull off the act of being such great people at the PFest, and then just blowing everyone off like they mean nothing to you. That is what it appears you are doing.

Think about it. That would be an extremely STS thing to do. And that act would be the first building block of whatever project you may be thinking of embarking on - hardly a basis for helping others.

I think speaking up about it is the right thing to do. But, free will, right? You can do whatever you want.
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Well said, mocachapeau! EXACTLY my feeling as well - such a sad story.

I have recently mulled about the wish to be/ act STO. Not sure this is the right approach ...

To me it seems, that we live in an STS world is an inescapable fact. No matter what we do/ think or feel, it is STS. So I think that rather to waste time trying to be STO or to "aspire" to be, I want to concentrate on the here and now - to expand my knowledge, to network with the group, to identify the multiple "little I's", to get my body back in order through diet and to regularly perform EE to cleanse my heart and mind. If I can do that, I think that I have done something huge, something not many in this world attempt or are able to do. And this might - just might - sometimes, maybe in another lifetime, make a difference somehow, somewhere.

Of course I have frequent bouts of grandeur, seeing myself communicate with higher selves, helping others and rescuing mankind. But that is just part of the mechanisms to lead me astray, as it has led the boardwalkers astray. I try to ignore it.

So all I can expect from me is the SOTT equivalent of "ora et labora": work and do EE!
 
nicklebleu said:
To me it seems, that we live in an STS world is an inescapable fact. No matter what we do/ think or feel, it is STS. So I think that rather to waste time trying to be STO or to "aspire" to be, I want to concentrate on the here and now - to expand my knowledge, to network with the group, to identify the multiple "little I's", to get my body back in order through diet and to regularly perform EE to cleanse my heart and mind. If I can do that, I think that I have done something huge, something not many in this world attempt or are able to do. And this might - just might - sometimes, maybe in another lifetime, make a difference somehow, somewhere.
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I agree that we are STS beings in an STS world - no doubt about that!

However, to me it also sounds like a bit of a trap to dismiss aspirations of acting in a STO manner in this lifetime.

Do you really have no aspirations of helping others but yourself? No desire to share knowledge or give when asked?

While I cannot fully comprehend what existence in a purely STO state may be, it certainly doesn't have to stop one from learning, giving, and sharing with others when the opportunity presents itself. In my mind, the overall point of the practices you listed above (cleansing, EE, networking) is to get one's self to a point to where we are better able to help others. Not just to be able to say "Well, I did that, maybe in a few lifetimes my selfish behavior will magically turn into STO!"

Perhaps it is more about the effort, or the process of learning how to become more STO-oriented in our actions within these STS vehicles, one step at a time.

Maybe by giving whenever possible, in THIS lifetime, it might (just might) make a bigger difference in the here and now than could be imagined. :)

It's also possible I'm misreading your intent with the above, but probably a good topic to talk about nonetheless - maybe in a separate (existing?) thread, so as not to get too off topic here.
 
quote by nicklebleu
I don't know if Sasha and/or Ljubica are still logging in and reading this thread, but if so, I would like to address this to them.

Let's just say for a moment that what you have said about misunderstanding Laura's instructions about sharing these sessions on the forum are true, that you thought she meant to share them with the world. Even if no one here can understand how that is possible, if it is true, then it is a mistake. We have all made mistakes, and there is not a more forgiving group in the world (that I know of) than this one, if you are open and honest about what happened. And talk about a chance to grow!

After reading the responses to your posts here, I can see why you might have become more and more ashamed of what you have done, surprised by the reactions you received, making it harder and harder to speak up, and that is why you have fallen silent. There have been many emotions expressed here, including outright anger. And your continued silence has led some posters to actually start mocking you openly (something I'm not too comfortable with). That can only make it harder to face up to it all.
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Nicklebleu, I find your post kind, insightful and externally considerate to all involved.

Shame, I think, is motivating the silence. Of all the emotions I have experienced in my life, shame is the hardest to bear. There is a sense of utter hopelessness and worthlessness. It is the worst punishment a community can mete out to its members. However, as painful as it is, it forces one to go inside and really examine oneself. This is the healthy part of shame, the part that leads to growth.

I imagine that that is what is behind Sasha and/or Ljubica's silence.

I have a theory which may be wrong, that something like this was fated to happen. As I was reading the thread, I thought of Gurdjieff's Law of The Octave.


quote from Cassiopae Glossary on The Octave

The 4th Way cosmology sees all processes as divided in seven stages, often denoted by the notes from do to si (ascending) or do to re (descending)

For example, the metabolism of man is described as as three food octaves, corresponding to how 1. physical food is transformed by the organism, 2. how air is transformed by the organism and lastly 3. how impressions are transformed by the organism.

An octave has two special intervals called shocks. These are the ones between mi and fa and si and the do of the next octave. These correspond to the absence of the black key on the piano keyboard. A process proceeds through the stages denoted by the notes if it has enough initial impetus. However, the process does not keep its original direction if left to itself. Usually, the process also needs an extra impulse from outside to proceed past the shock between mi-fa or si-do. Lack of understanding of the Law of Seven is, according to the 4th Way, the principal reason why human plans almost never reach their goal and why activities usually turn into their antithesis. One example is revolution against tyranny automatically turning into more tyranny. According to Gurdjieff, there exists an objective way of dividing all processes, from cosmic to social to mental to biological into octaves. This division is according to Gurdjieff, the only objective basis for the notion of time. A few examples of this division are provided in literature but generally man has no capacity or insight for seeing this division in nature and practical application of this law is elusive.

Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous contains the best structured presentation of octaves and the Law of Seven. Mouravieff also comments on octaves and how they relate to time and the progress of entropy, a sort of winding down of the universe.
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If we look at this experience objectively, relating it to this law, perhaps the knowledge presented here has reached the si and do octave. Perhaps this experience was the shock that was needed to keep the original impetus of the entire Work on track.

Again, I return to Nicklebleu to express what I want to say:

I bet there isn't a single member of this network that hasn't had thoughts about attending a session with the C's, or making contact with a higher intelligence. The experience would be exhilarating, I think. We would all like to have the benefit of receiving some kind of personal information that might help us to understand ourselves, or the people in our lives. We would all like to have the chance to help others in this way, as well. And because of that, I think people here would be able to understand if thoughts like these influenced you to go ahead with your experiment. I know I would.
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What I am struggling with is reconciling the fact that my Being is not on level it needs to be on do work on this level. There is a lot of information which I don't understand and maybe never will. And yes, I was banned from the forum for a year and a half, and it was an opportunity to grow some humility. I know how shameful and painful that is.

As far as I can see, you are not banned. You are part of the community. But the community that has brought us all together is for the purpose of doing the work. It is the Work that is important - our work on ourselves, and our work to make sure that the original aims get past that octave safely. I think everyone must be happy that it wasn't themselves who did such a thing. But anybody can let their ego trick them into doing stupid things. Or maybe not everyone, but many especially me.
 
webglider said:
Shame, I think, is motivating the silence. Of all the emotions I have experienced in my life, shame is the hardest to bear. There is a sense of utter hopelessness and worthlessness. It is the worst punishment a community can mete out to its members.
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Shame is internal consideration - pure and simple. This community did not 'mete out punishment' in any way, shape or form. This community awaited input for weeks in order to more deeply understand exactly what happened in order to help these individuals. These individuals turned their back on this - fully - and moved on along in their illusion.

I think it is very important to keep the facts of what happened here firmly in mind and not fall into projection and illusion regarding their motivations, feelings or reactions. Critical Correction will getcha every time.
 
anart said:
webglider said:
Shame, I think, is motivating the silence. Of all the emotions I have experienced in my life, shame is the hardest to bear. There is a sense of utter hopelessness and worthlessness. It is the worst punishment a community can mete out to its members.
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Shame is internal consideration - pure and simple. This community did not 'mete out punishment' in any way, shape or form. This community awaited input for weeks in order to more deeply understand exactly what happened in order to help these individuals. These individuals turned their back on this - fully - and moved on along in their illusion.

I think it is very important to keep the facts of what happened here firmly in mind and not fall into projection and illusion regarding their motivations, feelings or reactions. Critical Correction will getcha every time.
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I was trying to write the same thing, but Anart beat me to it.
While the network waited, they moved along on reframing their website.
You cant "inflict" shame on someone, since it depends on several mind constructs and a hierarchy of values.
One casts shame upon oneself when he/she does something he/she feels he/she should not be doing.
So what causes shame varies enourmously from individual to individual, even in the same individual, the same external shock may cause of not shame depending on his mental and emotional state, among other variables.

Consider also that one of them was a EE teacher, that means, someone who has actively doing the work for a while, and is expected to realize the value of the network, the foolishness of such an exercise, to show the strength of character to be able to admit your mistakes sincerelly and fully, since this is one of the first tasks that is put before oneself as one begins to work - to stop lying.
 
webglider said:
Shame, I think, is motivating the silence. Of all the emotions I have experienced in my life, shame is the hardest to bear. There is a sense of utter hopelessness and worthlessness. It is the worst punishment a community can mete out to its members.
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Added to the above given thoughts, keep this quote in mind also:

Don Juan said:
The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is
that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary
man takes everything as a blessing or as a curse.
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This whole experience could have been a great lesson for all of them. Painful it might be, but sometimes that's just part of learning. It's not a 'punishment' either, but simply an opportunity for them to learn. And in life you can either take these opportunities to learn, or you don't. And I think that does tell something about a certain person.

Also, I think that shame, and the feelings you describe can be natural in this case. But would one let such feelings control oneself, or would one understand these feelings and not let them take control and blur one's view? All kinds of feelings are present at all times, but in the end, it comes down to the actions we decide to take.
 
anart said:
forge said:
I read Ljubica's post in the Odyssey thread and realized, that leaving the door open here for Sasha's and Ljubica's return, would be like a well bought & thought out portfolio on the stock market.
Investment: leaving the door open.
Profit: If they return and explain thoroughly, they could contribute invaluable information to what could become a good part of experiment with the spirit board manual for the future: What to avoid, how to watch self, what not to do, info from the best source, who made errors, but came back. Account of journey of coming back.
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forge, I think you might be missing the fact that there is nothing they could 'tell us' that we don't already know. It's not like this is an unknown topic or that it wasn't completely foreseeable what would happen and exactly how it would happen. Mechanical man plus ego plus sleep plus delusion plus opening oneself up to things one cannot grasp can end no other way.
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I was internally considering by thinking that valuable info could be gained by the return and account of Sasha and Ljubica. I missed the important point of their participation in PaleoFest, what it meant for the other participants, plus Sasha then being an EE-teacher. Wishfully i also fantasized this group could gain feedback from interested forum members trying the spirit board and reporting back what they received and that this could be a help during their spiritual development, receiving immediate feedback from the group about the output of their board.

By internally considering, i failed to take into consideration that using a spirit board requires a lot of grooming and practice, which may take a lot of time and effort to receive sensible words. I was blind and ignorant about the amount of effort needed for spirit board communication and posted here a not useful, idealistic scenario, which has very little to do with reality, as all my imaginings are.

I really need to be more externally considerate toward this group and not make half-baked posts that my small-I's deem creative. I must concentrate and respect the time forum members spend reading here, by making more useful posts in the future.
 
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