External Consideration turns into Internal Consideration

[rise]

I've read through the entire thread but I still feel much confusion over this topic.

To externally consider one must...

Self remember to objectively observe oneself so one does not mechanically (emotionally?) react. This could be described as 'telling the wolf to go away'. One must be able to recognize the wolf to tell it to go away.

Consciously act from the objective observation of the situation. Since the wolf has been acknowledged and sent away through self remembering then one can actually act / give / do / externally consider for the situation and those involved.

By self remembering and consciously acting one detaches the internal from the external. Instead of reacting based on internal needs or wants, one acts externally based on the situation and those involved by being able to control(?) the internal wolf.

I might be over simplifying but this seems to be how I understand external consideration after going through the thread.

 

[zim]

For example, I may have just served a lovely customer who was as entusiatic and chatty as I were to them, when the next customer snaps at me and complains about something. Usually this would trigger an emotional reaction, but I have found that if I 'detach' my inner observer from the flood of emotion, and shift my focus back to the outside,(it is very hard for me to describe how I do this in words) I can actually retain a clear mind and even physically I don't feel stressed out or jumpy. There are other very interesting and amazing effects like feeling life itself is flowing through you, that you just do things, as what needs to be done at that present time just happens naturally. You begin to feel connected to the world around you and the bigger picture, knowing that you are consciously shaping your future at that exact moment.

Well this post really hit me in my face, Its hard to me deal with customers that have bad temper, I felt like they hit me with a bucket!!! :( My predator begin to work at that moment, I need to read very well this thread and work harder in this points :

Self remember to objectively observe oneself so one does not mechanically (emotionally?) react. This could be described as 'telling the wolf to go away'. One must be able to recognize the wolf to tell it to go away.

Consciously act from the objective observation of the situation. Since the wolf has been acknowledged and sent away through self remembering then one can actually act / give / do / externally consider for the situation and those involved.

By self remembering and consciously acting one detaches the internal from the external. Instead of reacting based on internal needs or wants, one acts externally based on the situation and those involved by being able to control(?) the internal wolf.

:)

Im aware that one of my programs is react emotionally and have been working on that program since the last year , but not have a test yet with a new customer that have bad temper!!! :)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I've read through the entire thread but I still feel much confusion over this topic.

To externally consider one must...

Self remember to objectively observe oneself so one does not mechanically (emotionally?) react. This could be described as 'telling the wolf to go away'. One must be able to recognize the wolf to tell it to go away.

Consciously act from the objective observation of the situation. Since the wolf has been acknowledged and sent away through self remembering then one can actually act / give / do / externally consider for the situation and those involved.

By self remembering and consciously acting one detaches the internal from the external. Instead of reacting based on internal needs or wants, one acts externally based on the situation and those involved by being able to control(?) the internal wolf.

I might be over simplifying but this seems to be how I understand external consideration after going through the thread.

I think you may be over-complicating things. If you try to keep all this in mind all the time it'll be hard to do anything. Maybe for after-the-fact analysis it is good, but for the actual moment all that intellectualizing can be debilitating, I think. Instead, maybe just try the following: be aware of yourself, pay attention, look for clues, act accordingly. Say you enter someone's house for the first time. Let's also say that in your own home you don't take your shoes off, you just walk right on in and do your thing. But when you enter another's home, be aware that it is not YOUR home. You step through the door and observe. Is the person wearing their shoes? Is there a place to put yours? But maybe the shoes the person is wearing are indoor shoes? So ask. Observe their language. Do they swear? If not, perhaps your tendency to swear will be perceived as insulting, and maybe they have kids around. If you go to the bathroom, pay attention to how the bathroom is. Leave it as it was when you entered it. Etc. Contrast all that to a person who just barrels in, keeps their shoes on, messes up the carpet, swears in front of the kids, urinates on the toilet seat, etc.

That said, can you think of an example where you think you have trouble considering? One from your everyday life? That might be easier to deal with than theories.

 

[Iron]

A situation that ocurred to myself :
I was helping a friend do an assigment for college. We were orgdering references when my sister came storming, said that I was teaching the person all wrong and stormed out of the room furious. Mind you, I am a biology major, so Im no stranger in writing reports and ordering references and stuff.
I got very angry and hurt internally, however I was able to catch myself on the act, tell myself in a millisecond that my sister has self steem issues, she thinks she is stupid, etc, so I said calmly that her help was welcome and did the references her way. Since her way was also correct, my friend was not harmed by the decision.
I think I was externally considerate in this situation, but maybe not... waiting for input.

 

[anart]

A situation that ocurred to myself :
I was helping a friend do an assigment for college. We were orgdering references when my sister came storming, said that I was teaching the person all wrong and stormed out of the room furious. Mind you, I am a biology major, so Im no stranger in writing reports and ordering references and stuff.
I got very angry and hurt internally, however I was able to catch myself on the act, tell myself in a millisecond that my sister has self steem issues, she thinks she is stupid, etc, so I said calmly that her help was welcome and did the references her way. Since her way was also correct, my friend was not harmed by the decision.
I think I was externally considerate in this situation, but maybe not... waiting for input.

Yep, that was externally considerate.

 

[Iron]

A situation that ocurred to myself :
I was helping a friend do an assigment for college. We were orgdering references when my sister came storming, said that I was teaching the person all wrong and stormed out of the room furious. Mind you, I am a biology major, so Im no stranger in writing reports and ordering references and stuff.
I got very angry and hurt internally, however I was able to catch myself on the act, tell myself in a millisecond that my sister has self steem issues, she thinks she is stupid, etc, so I said calmly that her help was welcome and did the references her way. Since her way was also correct, my friend was not harmed by the decision.
I think I was externally considerate in this situation, but maybe not... waiting for input.

Yep, that was externally considerate.

Great! On the right path then!

 

[rise]

That said, can you think of an example where you think you have trouble considering? One from your everyday life? That might be easier to deal with than theories.

Yes. I know whenever a friend asks me to hang out, or do something, I mechanically think if it is convenient for me and then respond based on that. I'm internally considering myself first, and I've noticed it but I continue to do it.

Your examples of observing are certainly way above what I've ever tried doing as well. These normally would seem like subtle things but I see how first watching what your host does (swearing, shoes, bathroom etc) and then acting appropriately is externally considerate. This certainly makes me feel asleep just thinking about it...

 

[Buddy]

I've read through the entire thread but I still feel much confusion over this topic.

Hi Rise. :)

Don't feel bad. My first exposure to the concept was back in August of 2008 and I just learned another lesson about it, so it's not a "set it and forget it" deal by any means. In fact, knowledge of the concept and application of external consideration will evolve as you do. That suggests the idea of doing what you can understand of it at whatever level you're on and stay open. Learning is fun! :)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

That said, can you think of an example where you think you have trouble considering? One from your everyday life? That might be easier to deal with than theories.

Yes. I know whenever a friend asks me to hang out, or do something, I mechanically think if it is convenient for me and then respond based on that. I'm internally considering myself first, and I've noticed it but I continue to do it.

Well, each situation is different. Externally considering doesn't necessarily mean doing whatever other people want you to do. That can be needlessly draining. If it really is inconvenient for you to hang out on a particular occasion, then there's an externally considerate way of saying no. Sometimes people need to learn to put others first in certain situations, and sometimes they need to learn to stick up for themselves. I was in a relationship with a friend in junior high years ago. This friend was a total drain, and I usually ended up saying yes to everything he wanted to do, just because I couldn't say no. It got to the point where I was just passive aggressive, and then when I WOULD say no, he'd rope me into saying yes even if I didn't want to. If I'd known then what I know now, I would've been firmer earlier on. So without some more details it'll be hard to know.

Your examples of observing are certainly way above what I've ever tried doing as well. These normally would seem like subtle things but I see how first watching what your host does (swearing, shoes, bathroom etc) and then acting appropriately is externally considerate. This certainly makes me feel asleep just thinking about it...

If it sounds like it's too much, start small. Pick one person to try to be externally considerate with. Then try to pay attention to what can you do to make things easier for them. It'll be hard at first, but if you remember your aim, you may just notice something, and that'll be your opportunity.

 

[rise]

Hi Rise. :)

Don't feel bad. My first exposure to the concept was back in August of 2008 and I just learned another lesson about it, so it's not a "set it and forget it" deal by any means. In fact, knowledge of the concept and application of external consideration will evolve as you do. That suggests the idea of doing what you can understand of it at whatever level you're on and stay open. Learning is fun! :)

Hi Bud, you are correct it is by no means a set it and forget it deal. I didn't meant to suggest that by reading the thread I was going to become enlightened immediately or anything, just that this topic certainly still is not clear by any means to me. I'm slowly learning that it is better to ask when something doesn't make sense at my workplace, so I'm (hopefully) losing my fear of asking questions on the forum as well.

Well, each situation is different. Externally considering doesn't necessarily mean doing whatever other people want you to do. That can be needlessly draining. If it really is inconvenient for you to hang out on a particular occasion, then there's an externally considerate way of saying no. Sometimes people need to learn to put others first in certain situations, and sometimes they need to learn to stick up for themselves. I was in a relationship with a friend in junior high years ago. This friend was a total drain, and I usually ended up saying yes to everything he wanted to do, just because I couldn't say no. It got to the point where I was just passive aggressive, and then when I WOULD say no, he'd rope me into saying yes even if I didn't want to. If I'd known then what I know now, I would've been firmer earlier on. So without some more details it'll be hard to know.

Maybe this wasn't the best example but it was the first that came to mind. You have a very good point about being able to say no, and I'm sure I've had this problem in the past but I've been told by several people that if I don't want to do something I let them know Maybe I don't approach it the right way though, perhaps too overt.

If it sounds like it's too much, start small. Pick one person to try to be externally considerate with. Then try to pay attention to what can you do to make things easier for them. It'll be hard at first, but if you remember your aim, you may just notice something, and that'll be your opportunity.

Yes, this seems to be a good idea to start with anything, small and work your way up. Thank you for the advice.

 

[Woodsman]

One tool I've used is pretty simple. . .

1. Put yourself in their shoes. (External Consideration; consider that which is external to yourself.)
2. Ask: "Is giving what they want in the best interest of everybody involved?"
3. Know that serving Ego, either yours or theirs, strengthens that ego and may get in the way of healthful development.
4. Act appropriately.

Every situation is different, but regular patterns do emerge. It's okay to make mistakes so long as you learn from them.

--An extra proviso: "Some people are wearing masks of sanity, so putting on their shoes might really be an act of self-identifying with a false personality. Be careful!"

That's my little system, anyway.

A work in progress. :)

 

[cubbex]

One tool I've used is pretty simple. . .

1. Put yourself in their shoes. (External Consideration; consider that which is external to yourself.)
2. Ask: "Is giving what they want in the best interest of everybody involved?"
3. Know that serving Ego, either yours or theirs, strengthens that ego and may get in the way of healthful development.
4. Act appropriately.

Every situation is different, but regular patterns do emerge. It's okay to make mistakes so long as you learn from them.

--An extra proviso: "Some people are wearing masks of sanity, so putting on their shoes might really be an act of self-identifying with a false personality. Be careful!"

That's my little system, anyway.

A work in progress. :)

Yeah, like you get burned if you fight fire with fire. And for those of mask of sanity, I think first of all you have to analyze the situation even in a millisecond like someone put before, so you may know how deal the situation.

For example here on my house, there it is a girl, is the daughter from my father's wife, you could say she is my step-sister, for me she is just the faughter from and the rest. But she has the tendence to lie, manipulate and try to control and do whatever she want, and she uses some kind of passive agression, she totally make me crazy and anger, men she have a way to make everybody anger, and in the past I always answered to her in a bad mood, even thinking on ways to take vengance from her lies. And I saw that this didn't function, I was doing what she wanted. Fight.

But then after listen her and mother's past story, and about lot of things about her, I got to know that try to destroy her or whatever is not doing anything more than just make her become worst. Because her biological father, the cold relation with her mother, I think self steem problems and more is the reason of this girl to be always tryng to feed from others, So what I did it was to be appart from her games, man she is a passive predator, but nobody cares ina psychological way because they treat her always bad, with jokes and with coldness, and she makes them angry but I have living in this house 4 years and no change have been made from our parents.

 

[Iron]

One tool I've used is pretty simple. . .

1. Put yourself in their shoes. (External Consideration; consider that which is external to yourself.)
2. Ask: "Is giving what they want in the best interest of everybody involved?"
3. Know that serving Ego, either yours or theirs, strengthens that ego and may get in the way of healthful development.
4. Act appropriately.

Every situation is different, but regular patterns do emerge. It's okay to make mistakes so long as you learn from them.

--An extra proviso: "Some people are wearing masks of sanity, so putting on their shoes might really be an act of self-identifying with a false personality. Be careful!"

That's my little system, anyway.

A work in progress. :)

Yeah, like you get burned if you fight fire with fire. And for those of mask of sanity, I think first of all you have to analyze the situation even in a millisecond like someone put before, so you may know how deal the situation.

For example here on my house, there it is a girl, is the daughter from my father's wife, you could say she is my step-sister, for me she is just the faughter from and the rest. But she has the tendence to lie, manipulate and try to control and do whatever she want, and she uses some kind of passive agression, she totally make me crazy and anger, men she have a way to make everybody anger, and in the past I always answered to her in a bad mood, even thinking on ways to take vengance from her lies. And I saw that this didn't function, I was doing what she wanted. Fight.

But then after listen her and mother's past story, and about lot of things about her, I got to know that try to destroy her or whatever is not doing anything more than just make her become worst. Because her biological father, the cold relation with her mother, I think self steem problems and more is the reason of this girl to be always tryng to feed from others, So what I did it was to be appart from her games, man she is a passive predator, but nobody cares ina psychological way because they treat her always bad, with jokes and with coldness, and she makes them angry but I have living in this house 4 years and no change have been made from our parents.

Do she gets away with her lies always? Of course you must choose your battles if you are on unfavorable terrain, but you cannot let her always have her way with her lying or in my view you are not being externally considerate, just an enabler.

 

[cubbex]

Do she gets away with her lies always? Of course you must choose your battles if you are on unfavorable terrain, but you cannot let her always have her way with her lying or in my view you are not being externally considerate, just an enabler.

Maybe, because this girl is good, kinda makes others stupid with her talking.
Of course is not an excuse to let her being lying to me. Nobody here likes her lies, but nobody appart from me cares. But the thing I was trying to say, is the different way to approach her, because it looks she will never learn so what I may do?? I have 4 years here and she is always evading with lies and nobody believes me LOL and she enjoys making others angry with her lies. If you tell her what she is doing wrong without criticize her (what her mother and my father do) she understands and stop to lie and goes away, and is easy to catch her, I think she don't even think very well how to lie well.

But thanks god I'm out of this house on June, yeah!!!

And she knows her lies don't work with me so, she does not lie to me anymore. But she does to others.
It has been a good lesson, there is nothing I hate more than a person who lies.

 

[Iron]

Do she gets away with her lies always? Of course you must choose your battles if you are on unfavorable terrain, but you cannot let her always have her way with her lying or in my view you are not being externally considerate, just an enabler.

Maybe, because this girl is good, kinda makes others stupid with her talking.
Of course is not an excuse to let her being lying to me. Nobody here likes her lies, but nobody appart from me cares. But the thing I was trying to say, is the different way to approach her, because it looks she will never learn so what I may do?? I have 4 years here and she is always evading with lies and nobody believes me LOL and she enjoys making others angry with her lies. If you tell her what she is doing wrong without criticize her (what her mother and my father do) she understands and stop to lie and goes away, and is easy to catch her, I think she don't even think very well how to lie well.

But thanks god I'm out of this house on June, yeah!!!

And she knows her lies don't work with me so, she does not lie to me anymore. But she does to others.
It has been a good lesson, there is nothing I hate more than a person who lies.

Understood... well its their choice to not care about her lies. I think you do well in exiting this house.