Iodine and Potassium Iodide

[Joe]

Apologies if this was mentioned before - was away from the forum for some time, and need some time to catch up with all the posts but my DMSA arrived and I am eager to start ASAP so one quick question:

Whats the common consensus here on the best protocol to deal with mercury, do you first start with Iodine for some time and then back off Iodine and do 3 rounds of DMSA ( round= 3 doses of 300 mg per day x 5 days), or you keep taking Iodine all along.
After how many days of Iodine you start with DMSA?

I know this is probably individual and one should probably observe the symptoms of mercury release and act accordingly. But I was curious what are the common observations here.

For your size, I would do a first round of 300mgs 3 times a day (spaced 4 hours apart) for THREE days. Then stop and remineralize for the next 4-5 days. Then do another round. If your first round didn't bother you very much. You can up the dose to 400mgs 3 times a day, for three days.

Probably best to stop iodine for the 3 days you are taking DMSA.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[lilyalic]

Joe, it sounds like you are experiencing what it is like for others who experience this most of the time.

Well I've consulted with others on this and it seems like it was more intense and protracted than what others experience. Nevertheless, it has made me aware that, even when relatively mild, it can be pretty debilitating. Of course, there are different 'flavors' of it that are specific to each person, but the general feeling of "blah" "it's all pointless" combined with fatigue is probably a general description. It just means that those who are less "sensitive" and therefore more able to get on with things, have a responsibility to help others through rough patches in whatever way is needed.

Well yeah but I think Joe seemed to have experienced this ten fold! I mean, I know what it's like to feel that, and then I know the difference between that feeling and it being doubled or whatever, there's a big difference.
I don't think your experience seemed over dramatic, I can't imagine what it's like to have gone through it that hard. I only get glimpses, days or a few hours of it all coming down at once, including the state of the world and becoming upset at hearing things on the Radio.

I'm glad you're coming out the other end now.
You're right, those who can power on are available to help others, and even those (like yourself) who can do that have their moments!

 

[Mandatory Intellectomy]

So after a week of 400mg of iodine a day, I finished with 500/800/1000 in the last 3 days. (I'm gonna take it slowly from here on.)
Note: For those who haven't been following, you can check my entire progress with my comments here: http://mandatory-intellectomy.eu.pn/iodine.htm
As I expected by this time, even that 1 gram didn't do anything obvious, aside from feeling like I had drunk liquid fire for the first half hour.
All the pain (hands, neck + headaches) is still the same. (It's been 5 weeks of iodine in total.)
No emotional or mental changes. (Not that I would expect any. I've never had this 'brain fog' thing everyone keeps talking about, and I went through hard years of processing emotions long ago.)

No detox reactions either. And that's the part that I don't get, so I want to ask about this. Most others had detox reactions from doses under 50mg, many from less than 20mg, I think, but I got nothing from 1000mg. So I figure the options are:

1. I'm not detoxing because I'm not toxic.
2. I'm not detoxing for some other reason... like something preventing it.
3. I'm actually detoxing but without obvious symptoms.

Option 1 seems rather unlikely to me. I've had 8 amalgam fillings for most of my life, and other than the last few years of improved diet and lifestyle in general, I must have been exposed to the same things as everyone else. (Well, except Americans who get exposed to 100 times more crap because their government is insane.) So I doubt I could be free of toxins, especially mercury. It's true that I've been taking some things like ALA and Chlorella on and off for a few years, but not in high, consistent doses. (Max 100mg of ALA and usually 1-2 grams of Chlorella, rarely for more than a few days at a time.) I've never done any serious detox protocol before. Is it likely that I could actually be largely detoxed (or not too toxic in the first place) and thus see no symptoms?

As for option 2, my question is: is there something that could be preventing the toxins from getting removed?
With high doses of iodine, daily ALA, Chlorella, and a bunch of other anti-oxidants, why would I not be detoxing?

And as for option 3, my question is whether this is possible or how likely it is.

I guess it could also be a combination of 1 and 3, i.e. being only mildly toxic and thus having no obvious symptoms.

So do you guys have any guesses which of the 3 is the most likely, or possibly some other ideas?

As a side note, I suppose I could check with a doctor and have things tested, but my trust in doctors has gone below zero, and I find them more incompetent than the police and economists, and with their general ignorance about iodine, ketosis, toxicity, and other things, I really don't feel like even asking them. Last time I went to see a doctor was an exercise in futility and uselessness. And I don't know any good ones here. Pretty much the only doctor I trust is Gaby.

 

[Siberia]

So do you guys have any guesses which of the 3 is the most likely, or possibly some other ideas?

The only guess that I have, MI, is that perhaps you've been practicing some physical exercise all these years, which helped you to release toxins more efficiently than others? Have you been practicing any kind of sports?

Or another guess along the same lines: perhaps you often work physically outdoors?

fwiw

 

[sitting]

When I see some news like such-and-such headchoppers have chopped some more heads somewhere, I just don't want to know the details, because if I go there and read it, this may end up with some weeping catharsis, and I'm simply not ready for any such at the moment.

I could be mistaken, but this may indeed be your initiation to the process of tonglen.
It's similar to how I felt, confronted with the stark realization of homelessness (of another.)

FWIW.

 

[Joe]

As a side note, I suppose I could check with a doctor and have things tested, but my trust in doctors has gone below zero, and I find them more incompetent than the police and economists, and with their general ignorance about iodine, ketosis, toxicity, and other things, I really don't feel like even asking them. Last time I went to see a doctor was an exercise in futility and uselessness. And I don't know any good ones here. Pretty much the only doctor I trust is Gaby.

Why not get some broad blood work done? Also, why not try some DMSA and see if you have any reactions.

 

[Gaby]

So do you guys have any guesses which of the 3 is the most likely, or possibly some other ideas?

There are many documented differences between individuals. Some say that "There is as much as a 500-fold difference in the ability of individuals to detoxify the same chemical."

Genetic susceptibilities can certainly play a role in each person's vulnerability towards mercury and how that manifests.

The concept of mercury sensitivity as explained by Sidney Baker in "Detoxification and Healing" is a very important clue. Sidney Baker explains:

- There is no decisive test to determine your individual tolerance to mercury or what problems any particular dose may cause after exposure at any given moment in your development or in combination with other toxins.

- The chelating medicines that pull mercury from your body or support your body's chemistry for detoxifying mercury may produce beneficial effects independent of any role they may have in removing mercury.

- One of the most puzzling factors is a rinsing paradox. When I wash my socks, most of the soap and dirt comes out with the first rinse. Each subsequent rinse produces less dirt until the socks come out clean. Never in washing my socks has the dirt stayed in them until the fourth rinse and then suddenly come pouring out. But something like this appears to happen in some people when they take repeated pulses of DMSA after failing to release much mercury into their urine after the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd course of treatment.

- Knowing how much mercury it takes to poison the average person is of little help when the average is somewhere within a range that starts at one and goes to one million. No one knows where to draw the line between what we call mercury poisoning and mercury sensitivity.

My 2 cents!

 

[Hesper]

Joe, it sounds like you are experiencing what it is like for others who experience this most of the time.

Well I've consulted with others on this and it seems like it was more intense and protracted than what others experience. Nevertheless, it has made me aware that, even when relatively mild, it can be pretty debilitating. Of course, there are different 'flavors' of it that are specific to each person, but the general feeling of "blah" "it's all pointless" combined with fatigue is probably a general description. It just means that those who are less "sensitive" and therefore more able to get on with things, have a responsibility to help others through rough patches in whatever way is needed.

I think I know what you're going through! Oy, the madness. I remember experiencing this a while back. At the time I too felt as though I'd lost all defenses and even the smallest tasks took way more effort than they required. It was brutal, coming face to face with all of the things about myself and the world that I'd previously been able to deny. After the dam broke it seemed the only thing I could do was pour all of my suffering into working for other people. If life was going to be so damned miserable then at least I could make it less so for those who really wanted and needed it to be! That and diving into the history books to shine light on others' suffering helped me tremendously, as I was finally able to swallow the very bitter pill of what it means to live in a 3D STS world, and the 'doom and gloom' slowly turned my world upside down and I found a deeper respect for the Work and the virtues of being a 'warrior'. I can only imagine what you'll find!

Overall I've been taking it rather slow with the iodine. After about 2 and a half months of taking around 30mg a day, alternating with higher 'pulse' dosages and breaks, the obvious detox symptoms include a week of processing huge amounts of anger, getting rid of a few obvious 'bugs,' and processing emotions/viruses/parasites/bromines that were responsible for schizophrenic-type symptoms I had about a decade ago. Luckily, at the time, I was given some good advice by a counselor and pushed through without taking any disabling drugs. So I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to feel an increase in energy and willpower. I also had all of my mercury fillings removed 3 months ago, and have been taking supplements to help chelate the mercury since then. I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised when we discovered the iodine protocol - I was expecting to do 6 months of heavy metal chelation before even tackling the viruses and bugs, but here the iodine seems to want to flush them all out of the system, and my body seems ready to accommodate.

 

[Z...]

Apologies if this was mentioned before - was away from the forum for some time, and need some time to catch up with all the posts but my DMSA arrived and I am eager to start ASAP so one quick question:

Whats the common consensus here on the best protocol to deal with mercury, do you first start with Iodine for some time and then back off Iodine and do 3 rounds of DMSA ( round= 3 doses of 300 mg per day x 5 days), or you keep taking Iodine all along.
After how many days of Iodine you start with DMSA?

I know this is probably individual and one should probably observe the symptoms of mercury release and act accordingly. But I was curious what are the common observations here.

For your size, I would do a first round of 300mgs 3 times a day (spaced 4 hours apart) for THREE days. Then stop and remineralize for the next 4-5 days. Then do another round. If your first round didn't bother you very much. You can up the dose to 400mgs 3 times a day, for three days.

Probably best to stop iodine for the 3 days you are taking DMSA.

Let us know how you get on.

Thanks Joe. How many days you recommend taking iodine before kicking in DMSA.
I am planning to restart Iodine with relatively small dose of 5mg/day as son as my phlegmy cold clears.

When you say remineralize what do you actually think? I am taking Himalayan salt and Boron 9mg - every day even when not taking iodine. And also Magnesium before sleep. When I am taking iodine I am also taking Selenium 200mcg/day.

 

[Z...]

Option 1 seems rather unlikely to me. I've had 8 amalgam fillings for most of my life, and other than the last few years of improved diet and lifestyle in general, I must have been exposed to the same things as everyone else. (Well, except Americans who get exposed to 100 times more crap because their government is insane.) So I doubt I could be free of toxins, especially mercury. It's true that I've been taking some things like ALA and Chlorella on and off for a few years, but not in high, consistent doses. (Max 100mg of ALA and usually 1-2 grams of Chlorella, rarely for more than a few days at a time.) I've never done any serious detox protocol before. Is it likely that I could actually be largely detoxed (or not too toxic in the first place) and thus see no symptoms?

I agree. Even if you had only one amalgam feeling chances are you are carrying pretty heavy mercury load. Not to mention mercury in food and fish. But perhaps, like others said, your body has some better emchanisms to get rid of the toxins.

good luck!

 

[Laura]

So do you guys have any guesses which of the 3 is the most likely, or possibly some other ideas?

The only guess that I have, MI, is that perhaps you've been practicing some physical exercise all these years, which helped you to release toxins more efficiently than others? Have you been practicing any kind of sports?

Or another guess along the same lines: perhaps you often work physically outdoors?

fwiw

My guess is that your natural ability to detox on an ongoing basis must be superior.

 

[monotonic]

The emotional effect of the iodine protocol seems so severe, what do you guys think would have happened if you went through that without the preparation that you have had through the Work and this forum? How much worse could it have been?

 

[Gaby]

Thanks Joe. How many days you recommend taking iodine before kicking in DMSA.
I am planning to restart Iodine with relatively small dose of 5mg/day as son as my phlegmy cold clears.

But it would also depend on how you do on iodine and if it triggers something.

I took DMSA after quite awhile when I noticed that I was not remembering my dreams and was having trouble with detox in general. I was feeling very tired too. Since I know that my DMSA cycles were not very easy, I opted for the easiest protocol: 100-200mg every two days at night. Since I'm doing iodine on alternative days, that DMSA dose is easy to accomodate with the iodine protocol. It can be taken at night on iodine days or throughout the day on an empty stomach on off iodine days.

When I re-started the DMSA, I had vivid dreams again and energy levels got better.

When you say remineralize what do you actually think? I am taking Himalayan salt and Boron 9mg - every day even when not taking iodine. And also Magnesium before sleep. When I am taking iodine I am also taking Selenium 200mcg/day.

That might be enough for some people. The cramps or tiredness should also tell you if you need more minerals than the ones quoted above.

If you are very tired and feel energized after taking a glass of water with salt, it wouldn't hurt to add multi-minerals for a period of time.

It is good to have a plan, but it is equally important to learn to read your body's signs and what it might be asking you. In case of no idea, doing some muscle testing should give some clues.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Mandatory Intellectomy]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

The only guess that I have, MI, is that perhaps you've been practicing some physical exercise all these years, which helped you to release toxins more efficiently than others? Have you been practicing any kind of sports?

Or another guess along the same lines: perhaps you often work physically outdoors?

Actually, the 3 years before last July, I was unemployed, doing barely anything physical at all. My jobs have always been manual work, though, so I get to move quite a bit at work. Still, I doubt it's enough for some significant detox. I don't spend much time outdoors.

Why not get some broad blood work done? Also, why not try some DMSA and see if you have any reactions.

I had some blood work done in March, but it wasn't very detailed. But pretty much everything that was checked was all right, despite the fact that I'd hardly been taking any supplements at that time. The only thing that was way off and my doctor was concerned about was very low blood sugar, lol. (3.33 mmol/l, which should be about 60mg/dl. From that long paper Gaby wrote I understand that the lower the better, right?)
I'll have to get some proper blood work done sooner or later, since it seems like the only way to know anything for sure. I'm gonna go along with the iodine protocol for a while first, though. Maybe it will have some delayed effects.

As for DMSA, this is rather tricky. I can't seem to find it or any useful info about it in my country. Plus the abbreviation DMSA is apparently used here for some medical procedure with kidneys, so searching the web is getting me nowhere. It's also possible that the thing is sold here under a completely different name (if at all), just like NAC.
I found a place where I can get DMSO, though, so I want to try that. People in the DMSO thread seemed to have good experience with it.


@Gaby
Yeah, I can see that the differences can be huge and all of this can be rather unpredictable.
I'm wondering if I would benefit from even higher doses of iodine, but on the other hand, maybe that's not what I need and it could cause more harm than good. I guess I won't know until I get my toxic load tested.

My guess is that your natural ability to detox on an ongoing basis must be superior.

Well, that would be pretty cool, and there do seem to be quite a few oddities about my metabolism, but if there's nothing much to detox, and presumably the high iodine doses would have killed critters, then that leaves me (never mind the doctors) with no clue about what's causing the headaches and other pains.

I'll keep experimenting with various stuff now, but somewhere down the line I'll have to have the blood work done and hopefully get some useful answers.

 

[RedFox]

As a side note, I suppose I could check with a doctor and have things tested, but my trust in doctors has gone below zero, and I find them more incompetent than the police and economists, and with their general ignorance about iodine, ketosis, toxicity, and other things, I really don't feel like even asking them. Last time I went to see a doctor was an exercise in futility and uselessness. And I don't know any good ones here. Pretty much the only doctor I trust is Gaby.

Why not get some broad blood work done? Also, why not try some DMSA and see if you have any reactions.

Also consider a good quality Iron Free multi-mineral (to take on non DMSA days). One reason the body can hang onto toxins is it has nothing to replace them with (i.e. minerals).

Joe, it sounds like you are experiencing what it is like for others who experience this most of the time.

Well I've consulted with others on this and it seems like it was more intense and protracted than what others experience. Nevertheless, it has made me aware that, even when relatively mild, it can be pretty debilitating. Of course, there are different 'flavors' of it that are specific to each person, but the general feeling of "blah" "it's all pointless" combined with fatigue is probably a general description. It just means that those who are less "sensitive" and therefore more able to get on with things, have a responsibility to help others through rough patches in whatever way is needed.

I'll add my 2 cents to this. I hadn't realised it until seeing what Joe and others had been through that this state of being has been one I've lived with (and as such normalized) over most of my life. So to all who are struggling.
My way of coping was dissociation. The iodine removing my ability to dissociate was crippling for some time, until I learned what to do with that.
I've yet to try the DMSA and sauna again - in the past they made pretty much no difference (didn't even get detox symptoms), so will report back how it goes.

So the first thing I can suggest to others is, if you already have a sensitive personality, suffer chronic pain or suddenly find yourself in this state is to go very slow on the iodine. Stick to a low dose and don't try to up it for some time (months). The body, mind and emotions will need time to adjust.

Impatience and comparison to others (real or imagined) are the two largest emotional elements for creating suffering in these cases.
Impatience leads to anger at the self, and in this case the emotions - and resisting your emotions actually intensifies them.
You may find that this then leads to the “Agony of Defeat” - which is still a comparison to others and/or a belief that you shouldn't be feeling what you are. That this level of emotional intensity makes you socially unacceptable.
You may remember a time when you where unable to communicate this level of emotional intensity to others, because they have no frame of reference. Feeling unheard and socially rejected for just being 'sensitive'.
When humans are in pain, they look for social connection to help cope with it - so this kind of 'just get over it' attitude others who have not experienced it can be massively rejecting/painful. This can then lead to an internalized feedback loop where you are stuck unable to verbalize the pain (because of social rejection) and become hypersensitive to comparing yourself to others (to avoid social rejection, by hiding the sensitivity) - thus amplifying the feelings.
You can have perfection and fear of failure mixed in here too, so it's important to remember that accepting feelings is not giving in to them or admitting some sort of defeat (defeat implies failure, that comes from the comparison to others). It doesn't mean not wanting to change things either, but to sit with your feelings without judgment or wanting to change them 'now' (i.e. escape them).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance

Acceptance in human psychology is a person's assent to the reality of a situation, recognizing a process or condition (often a negative or uncomfortable situation) without attempting to change it, protest. The concept is close in meaning to 'acquiescence', derived from the Latin 'acquiēscere' (to find rest in).
[..]
It should be recognized, before any breakdown to types, that acceptance is treating what happens, the actual event which is the outcome of all the combined previous events, as on balance the best outcome. Acceptance typically contains the concept of approval; it is important to note that the psychospiritual use of the term infers a non-judgmental mindset. Acceptance is contrasted with resistance, but that term has strong political and psychoanalytic connotations not applicable in many contexts. By groups and by individuals, acceptance can be of various events and conditions in the world; individuals may also accept elements of their own thoughts, feelings, and personal histories. For example, psychotherapeutic treatment of a person with depression or anxiety could involve fostering acceptance either for whatever personal circumstances may give rise to those feelings or for the feelings themselves. (Psychotherapy could also involve lessening an individual's acceptance of various situations.)

Notions of acceptance are prominent in many faiths and meditation practices. For example, Buddhism's first noble truth, "All life is suffering", invites people to accept that suffering is a natural part of life. The term "Kabbalah" means literally acceptance. Minority groups in society often describe their goal as "acceptance", wherein the majority will not challenge the minority's full participation in society. A majority may be said (at best) to "tolerate" minorities when it confines their participation to certain aspects of society. Acceptance is the fifth stage of the Kübler-Ross model (commonly known as the "stages of dying").
[..]
Self acceptance

Self acceptance is being loving and happy with who you are now. It’s an agreement with yourself to appreciate, validate, accept, and support who you are at this moment.

For example, think of acceptance of yourself like being okay with your house right now. One day you might want a bigger house or you have this dream house in your mind, but there are advantages to your smaller home now. So you can be happy with the house you have now and still dream of your bigger house as a reality later.

Self acceptance leads to a new life with new possibilities that did not exist before because you were caught up in the struggle against reality. People have trouble accepting themselves because of a lack of motivation. Some have the misconception that if you are happy with yourself you won’t change things about yourself. This isn’t true; you don’t have to be unhappy with yourself to know and actively change things you don’t like.

Iodine taking away dissociation is actually a double edged sword - the reason it seems dissociation doesn't work so much is that the observer part of the mind is waking up. That is, you can with practice step back and observe more easily.

We spend so much time and energy struggling to deny the reality we find ourselves in, both internal and external. We believe that seeing and feeling painful things fully (facing reality) will destroy us or cripple us. And it can, but only if you are still fighting reality.
Accepting reality also includes our current state - how much we are capable of right now. Impatience and frustration means we are trying to push beyond what is realistically possible - we are pushing to avoid reality rather than working with it.
Acceptance is about facing reality as it is, whatever the feelings, and then working from there based on observation and knowledge rather than reactions to feelings.

On a more physical side of things, supporting neurotransmitters whilst detoxing can be helpful. Earlier in the thread Joe mentioned mercury lowering neurotransmitters.
B1 also helps with stress tolerance. Detox and acceptance of reality are stressful, so it may be worth considering.

And because it's important to say, we are all in this together. We are all human (comparison gets in the way here!). We all have unique strengths and weaknesses, knowledge and experience. But that should not be seen as weakness or something that isolates you.
We should remember that shared pain brings people together, and makes everyone stronger.

One explanation for the finding is the classic one: that the value comes from dissonance reduction and the need to convince yourself that a painful exercise was worth it. Another theory, however, derives from something closer to the idea expressed by Emile Durkheim, writing in The Elementary Forms of the Religious Life, Part 2, that pain, when it does not occur naturally, creates communal bonds in part because "suffering creates exceptional strength." The willingness and ability to endure pain for some greater cause tells you something about yourself and your fellow sufferers. A club is more valuable to you if you and everyone else endured feats of extreme physical endurance to enter it. [..]
The experience of pain focusses our attention - first on the pain, and then, in a newly heightened state of awareness, on all that follows, including people.
[..]
Or, as Bastian puts it, "Pain is a kind of shortcut to mindfulness: it makes us suddenly aware of everything in the environment. It brutally draws us into a virtual sensory awareness of the world, much like meditation." The real bonding power of pain, then, may be in the pleasure we feel so acutely in its wake.

So share, and know you're not alone.