Session 20 August 2011

[manza]

Exterminating other lifeforms and absorbing their consciousness/energy in order to get more consciousness/energy and power for yourself sounds very 'STS' to me.

Welcome to the forum Manza. Do you don't mind my asking but are you a vegetarian?

Thank you. Yes, I am, but don't feel superior. I'm not against killing or eating animals.

I don't think you can get something or live a healthier life whether you are eating vegs or animals.

I eat a little to survive in this reality, that's all, and just wondered why people believe they can get a better consciousness by eating meat. The C's comments sounded very 'STS' to me.

 

[manza]

Exterminating other lifeforms and absorbing their consciousness/energy in order to get more consciousness/energy and power for yourself sounds very 'STS' to me.

manza, I invite you to read the research on the effects of grain/sugar eating on the human body/mind, o understand what it is we are talking about here. It's pretty long, but this thread here, and this one, are a good place to start.

I more or less agree that some food could be worse for the body than other food. I think it's best to eat simple and not too much. Everyone has to decide for him/herself.

But that's not the issue here. I just don't understand that people want to eat animals, not for the sake of survival in this reality, but also in order to get their consciousness. It sounds more STS than eating itself is already.

It seems that STS-beings want to use other lifeforms in order to get more consciousness and energy for themselves. That's what the STS-concept is all about.

 

[Don Genaro]

Exterminating other lifeforms and absorbing their consciousness/energy in order to get more consciousness/energy and power for yourself sounds very 'STS' to me.

Welcome to the forum Manza. Do you don't mind my asking but are you a vegetarian?

I don't think you can get something or live a healthier life whether you are eating vegs or animals.

If you search the forum you may find a lot of evidence that suggests the contrary; that we evolved eating mainly meat and fat and that that's the reason why our brains got to be so big. Check out the links Alana provided above- there's a wealth of information in the threads linked as well as the books that are discussed there.

I eat a little to survive in this reality, that's all, and just wondered why people believe they can get a better consciousness by eating meat. The C's comments sounded very 'STS' to me.

I don't really follow. Which comments in particular? Would you feel they sounded very STS if they were recommending a vegetarian diet? Because, as has been pointed out, something has to die for something else to live. We are STS here on planet earth. I admire that you eat a little to survive in this reality. That's something that I am learning now- again, if you check out the threads and related books it may explain this better.

Also, the issue of eating other humans came up in a previous session:

Q: (L) Yeah, Carla of the Ra group. She is just practically crippled with arthritis. I don't know what she eats, but the Paleo diet might do her some good. (Ailen) But then you have psychopaths who are very sick, too. (L) Yeah. I think that sometimes it's just a roll of the genetic dice. But in some cases, there's this connection. (Psyche) And we're exposed to too much toxicity these days. (L) Okay, have we done this subject? (Ark) Yes, I have a question. From a higher point of view - not just ethics and such things - but from the higher philosophical point of view, what's really wrong with cannibalism? (L) What's really wrong with cannibalism? (Perceval) We may or may not publish this answer. [laughter]

A: In some instances, nothing. But in general one does not eat one's own kind for energetic reasons. Carnivores do not eat other carnivores because it is not optimal energy source.

Q: (L) In other words, we get optimal energy from eating creatures that eat vegetables. That way, we get our vegetables. But another carnivore processes all of that so that what we would get from eating another carnivore would not be optimal nutrition?

A: Yes.

Q: (Andromeda) But then we could eat vegetarians. [laughter]

A: Don't laugh! That has been the case for some groups at certain times and places. In fact, that is still the case in some dark circles extant on Earth today. As we once pointed out, higher density beings derive nourishment from some humans and human body products. Preferred are fat children and nonsmoking vegetarians.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum :) Sorry if I was defensive in my first post but it did sound a little provocative to me!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Thank you for your response. My words are not meant to be provocative. I want to understand your point of view.

Thanks for clearing that up.

We have to eat a little bit to survive in this reality. It is absurd imo and a STS-concept. It seems we both agree it's STS.

I'm not sure what you mean here, manza. What is absurd and an STS concept? The fact that we have to eat to survive? I don't think it is absurd. I think it is life. To me it is both horrible and beautiful. Horrible because I empathize with the suffering of any kind, beautiful because despite the horror, there is life, possibility, balance, growth, etc. Also, I get the impression that you are equating STS with "bad" in the moral sense. There is nothing wrong with STS, it is simply what it is. Our bodies are STS bodies. They require external substances - food, air, light, touch - in order to survive. It's simply the way things are. However, there are different attitudes one can take towards our STS nature. One can recoil in horror and deny the fact (which is a lie to the self, something that is not conducive to growth), one can revel in it (which is the epitome of STS, I think), or one can accept it and learn to navigate this reality with respect, remorse, compassion, and knowledge.

However, to kill other life forms not only to survive but to get their consciousness sounds even more STS to me.

I think it is simply a description of nature. To survive essentially means to assimilate the consciousness of another being. I think in this discussion we need to ask ourselves 'what is consciousness?' I think that the level and type of consciousness (awareness, being) has an effect on matter, and so the matter of different types of organisms will have a different quality (e.g. I would say there is a difference between a cow that is tortured and fed grain, and one that is free to live a comfortable life and eat what it is designed to eat). When you eat a vegetable, you are consuming its consciousness, or whatever traces exist within its gross matter. Same with a cow. Gurdjieff called the substances in food "active elements", and I'd hazard a guess that this term applies to nutrients, vitamins, minerals, essential fats and amino acids, as well as 'substances' of which science doesn't really have a good understanding, perhaps affected by the quality of life of the animal or plant in question. Just like a cow can be tortured and fed poison (leaving it high in inflammatory omega-6's, as well as the possible effects caused by the traumatic emotions involved in its life), a vegetable can be grown in depleted soils, leaving it starved of its own essential minerals. I really recommend you read Lierre Keith's book, The Vegetarian Myth, to really put these ideas in perspective.

Do you believe animals have more consciuosness than plants?

I don't know. A different quality of consciousness perhaps.

If yes, is this why you prefer to consume animals in order to get more consciousness for yourself?

I don't eat meat in order to get more consciousness for myself. I eat meat (and fat) because it is what my body is designed to eat. If I get more consciousness as a result (whatever that actually means), then it is the result of a natural cycle and function of eating what I am made to eat.

Do you believe humans beings have more consciousness than animals?

If consciousness is defined as awareness, then yes. But that question remains open in regard to some individuals. ;)

If yes, why don't you eat human beings? You could consider it a gift from Mother Nature/Earth.

You're increasingly arguing from "debating" stance, instead of from reality. If I look at reality, my body is the result of millions of years of evolutionary processes and development, during which my ancestors ate animal fat. As a result, my body (and the bodies of members of human species, of which I am a part) functions best on animal fat. If you haven't checked it, I really recommend this video: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233886-Primal-mind-A-talk-on-nutrition-and-mental-health-by-Nora-Gedgaudas

One more question, what do you want to do and to get with this extra consciousness?

This assumes that there is any aspect of "wanting animals' consciousness" in my decision to eat animals. I simply want to be a normal human, i.e. to function and grow as I am designed to do so. To be a part of nature, to see and interact with reality in as objective and harmonious a way as possible. This means my body and mind need to be functioning, and they do NOT function on a diet for which they were not designed.

 

[Mark]

However, to kill other life forms not only to survive but to get their consciousness sounds even more STS to me.

Manza, it seems to me that you're taking a giant leap of assumption. Who do you know, or who has said they eat animals to get something via their conscious?

The vast majority of people eat animals because it's necessary to do that.

Far as I know the concept of consciousness in relation to meat as put forth in the recent session hasn't been brought up before. Therefore, in my perspective anyway, it's safe to assume that nobody here it eating animals with any other motive than for physical nutritional value.

 

[Don Genaro]

But that's not the issue here. I just don't understand that people want to eat animals, not for the sake of survival in this reality, but also in order to get their consciousness. It sounds more STS than eating itself is already.

It seems that STS-beings want to use other lifeforms in order to get more consciousness and energy for themselves. That's what the STS-concept is all about.

FWIW Manza, I think you're taking the words out of context. I don't see any mention of anyone "wanting" to eat another conscious being to gain consciousness. Rather I see the C's talk on the subject as "telling it how it is" or "how things work". Again, if you'll read the threads you will find that the main concern is trying to treat our bodies in the best way possible and trying to find what works best. Nobody's talking about "absorbing consciousness vampirically" which is what seems to be your interpretation. For me the general lesson now seems to be that we have been gifted with bodies in which we evolve spiritually and it would be remiss for us not to treat them with respect. In fact, I think your comments about "eating to get their consciousness " could be more easily applied to 4d STS who it seems, have been doing so for a long time. I think here, we are becoming "more conscious" of how this all works

As to your earlier question:

One more question, what do you want to do and to get with this extra consciousness?

I can't speak for everyone here but I think that one possibility is that we may evolve to the stage where we can choose not to eat other beings for sustenance which is what the whole STS/STO choice seems to be about.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I just don't understand that people want to eat animals, not for the sake of survival in this reality, but also in order to get their consciousness. It sounds more STS than eating itself is already.

Surviving is not enough - if your body and mind are not functioning well, but merely "surviving", you won't be able to accomplish anything of value in your life. Don't get hung up on the "getting their consciousness" part - I think the C's are saying that the higher consciousness of animals is related to why they are more nutritious for our bodies and minds. Regardless of what is your "intent", when you eat anything, you consume the product of their consciousness. When you eat veggies you consume the product of their consciousness too just like animals, but it is not good fuel for our bodies/minds. It does keep you alive (for some time at least), but will hurt your physical and mental health over time, leading to autoimmune diseases, brain shrinkage, and a host of other problems that prevent you from having a healthy and productive life. I recommend reading "Life Without Bread" and "The Vegetarian Myth" threads on this forum - as well as the books by the same name.

As to why we don't eat humans, it's because it's psychopathic and unnatural. Nobody wants to or enjoys killing an animal for any reason, but we must eat, and they happen to be the optimal fuel for us, so this is why we do it.

 

[ana]

I more or less agree that some food could be worse for the body than other food. I think it's best to eat simple and not too much. Everyone has to decide for him/herself.

How much have you read about the effects of grains, fruits and some veggies (specially raw) in humans?

But that's not the issue here. I just don't understand that people want to eat animals, not for the sake of survival in this reality, but also in order to get their consciousness. It sounds more STS than eating itself is already.

You are missing the point, it is not that people want to eat animals, eating meat is actually what we are supposed to be doing Naturally, it is the fuel that our bodies need in order to properly function in this reality, without a healthy phisical body not much can be accomplished regarding learning the lessons of this level.
Just contemplate nature and maybe you'll learn a thing or two, or would you also condemn a lion for eating a zebra, a cow for eating grass, and a fish for eating other small fishes or algaes?
Is not all that is eaten in this reality alive?

It seems that STS-beings want to use other lifeforms in order to get more consciousness and energy for themselves. That's what the STS-concept is all about.

What STS beings have actually done and continue doing is imposing their own criteria based on control, property, and false spiritual premises wich only feed the ego instead of observing the reality as it is to learn.

It seems once upon a time we were able to learn by observing nature and appreciate its inexhaustible capacity to nurture, what happened?

 

[go2]

it does seem that agriculture is in reality a war against nature and humanity.

It is the agribusiness of confinement raising of domestic animals and the raising of cereals for human consumption which can be characterized as a war against nature and humanity. Animal husbandry is considered agriculture. To me, it seems diversified agriculture which intends to raise well fed and cared for animals for human consumption are not part of the war of which you speak. I don't mean to nit pick, it seems useful clarification, unless one advocates or expects a human population collapse in the near future and hunting and gathering to provide sustenance. The earth is a garden perfectly capable of provided top quality domesticated animals and plants necessary to support humanities food needs, absent ignorance and greed.

 

[Meager1]

Do you believe animals have more consciuosness than plants?
If yes, is this why you prefer to consume animals in order to get more consciousness for yourself?
Do you believe humans beings have more consciousness than animals?
If yes, why don't you eat human beings? You could consider it a gift from Mother Nature/Earth.

I don`t know that an animal has more consciousness then a plant.

Though I do think that each may have different kinds of consciousness.

However, it is my understanding that when an animal is killed to be eaten it`s consciousness is released from it`s "meat" and returns to it`s own soul pool.

The consciousness is not eaten only the meat is and the meat is a thing without life in it.

When an animal is tortured to death for pleasure, by some entity that does not mean to eat it but simply aims to enjoy it`s pain and watch it`s death, then that certainly would be an attempt to "eat" it`s consciousness, in an entirely STS kind of way.

However, there was a time when people well understood that they had to kill an animal if they were to live. So before every hunt there would be a "purification ceremony" to make a hunter worthy of a kill, to aid him in the hunt to secure meat for his people.

At the moment of the kill the animal was sincerely thanked for it`s sacrifice and a ceremony was preformed on the spot, in an effort to help aid the spirit or the (consciousness) of that animal to return to it`s origin, with thanks and blessings, and then everything, every part of that animal was used, nothing was ever wasted.

This was always done since it was believed that this allowed the "consciousness" of the animal to be free to come (reincarnate) back onto the herd and to continually renew the food source.

Animals not treated with such respect would simply go away and not return again to the people.

Which was why it was such "horror" for the native peoples when they watched the white buffalo hunters for instance, come to the prairies and perversely kill buffalo by the thousands, as happened. Seems to me, that when we go to the store and simply take a package of meat out of the cooler we have lost all the sacredness of the "hunting ceremony" and the sincere gratitude that was once felt for the very real sacrifice of those animal, we are about to eat.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Session 20 August 2011

I just don't understand that people want to eat animals, not for the sake of survival in this reality, but also in order to get their consciousness. It sounds more STS than eating itself is already.

Surviving is not enough - if your body and mind are not functioning well, but merely "surviving", you won't be able to accomplish anything of value in your life. Don't get hung up on the "getting their consciousness" part - I think the C's are saying that the higher consciousness of animals is related to why they are more nutritious for our bodies and minds. Regardless of what is your "intent", when you eat anything, you consume the product of their consciousness. When you eat veggies you consume the product of their consciousness too just like animals, but it is not good fuel for our bodies/minds. It does keep you alive (for some time at least), but will hurt your physical and mental health over time, leading to autoimmune diseases, brain shrinkage, and a host of other problems that prevent you from having a healthy and productive life. I recommend reading "Life Without Bread" and "The Vegetarian Myth" threads on this forum - as well as the books by the same name.

As to why we don't eat humans, it's because it's psychopathic and unnatural. Nobody wants to or enjoys killing an animal for any reason, but we must eat, and they happen to be the optimal fuel for us, so this is why we do it.

Same thoughts here. It's proven that a low-carb diet, high in fatty meats, does wonder to the brains and brings the mind/body in a certain natural balance so that they can nurture and help one another. When there is little to worry about one's health, one can work and concentrate better on spiritual matters, in which one's conciousness may grow as a result.

 

[Jefferson]

I couldn't help but think when Psyche, Perceval and Bubbles asked about essences of countries/cultures, that the top of the list would be Scandinavian countries as the ponerization does not seem so obvious, and the social system is looking after a good chunk of the population - but being so far north they are the ones that are likely gonna be worst hit in a few years, so therefore these countries did not make the "C"s list. Also the ponerization is happening clearly behind the scenes in those countries too.

On the other hand, there's deep and inhibiting social conditioning (for example that which is recognized in the 'Jante Law'). And on the whole, everything tends very much towards the 'conventional' - while this works to make a somewhat more 'caring' society (at present, though this is changing) due to the nature of what has become conventional, it also very much stifles thinking outside the box in most - and interaction tends to be very, very surface level, avoiding any possible points of controversy or anything 'unusual'. That's present in pretty much every society, but I think it's stronger in Scandinavia.

This is a very good observation Psalehesost, and I will have to come back to it and think on it more. Although there is 'social conditioning' wherever one goes on this planet, there does seem to be a special version of it in the Nordic countries, which really does stifle innovative ideas and thought.


EDIT: typo

 

[manza]

However, to kill other life forms not only to survive but to get their consciousness sounds even more STS to me.

Manza, it seems to me that you're taking a giant leap of assumption. Who do you know, or who has said they eat animals to get something via their conscious?

The vast majority of people eat animals because it's necessary to do that.

Far as I know the concept of consciousness in relation to meat as put forth in the recent session hasn't been brought up before. Therefore, in my perspective anyway, it's safe to assume that nobody here it eating animals with any other motive than for physical nutritional value.

I don't want to argue about eating veg or meat. I just wondered about the text in this session:

Q: (L) So, eating flesh also means eating consciousness which accumulates, I'm assuming is what is being implied here, or what feeds our consciousness so that it grows in step with our bodies? Is that close?

A: Close enough.

Q: (Ailen) And when you eat veggies you're basically eating a much lower level of consciousness. (L) Not only that, but in a sense you're rejecting the gift and you're not feeding consciousness. And that means that all eating of meat should be a sacrament.

A: Yes


If I understand correctly, you will eat a much higher level of consciousness when you eat meat.
A good reason to kill an animal and eat meat, don't you think?

 

[Ca.]

Fascinating, and informative. Thank You, one and all for another great session. :D

 

[anart]

I don't want to argue about eating veg or meat.

manza, if you want to really understand this conversation, I would recommend that you read the Vegetarian Myth - it is discussed here on this forum. It doesn't come down to 'whatever is right for each person' - there is a truth here and it is that vegetarianism destroys the human organism.

Regarding the part of the session that you are obsessing over, I would offer the idea that consciousness is energy and all that exists is energy and, thus consciousness. Do you understand? In this reality, all entities must consume energy (which is consciousness) to survive and as one evolves, what must be consumed changes. Plants eat minerals, animals eat plants, humans eat animals - see? All of it is consciousness, all of it is energy, so perhaps it's time for you (if you are sincere) to read through the diet and health threads on this forum in order to get up to speed on the reality of our shared situation.