Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[Seamus]

Trump says he'll approve Keystone and DAPL. Not really surprised, though, considering he took these positions during his campaign.

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38734450

Thoughts?

If it goes through those native areas and dangerously under rivers, many many people (and I) will be very disappointed. They can detour it a bit (heck, that might create a few more of those jobs being talking about).

I was thinking the same thing! I tweeted him to this effect, FWIW (sorry can't embed the tweet)

.@realDonaldTrump please reroute pipelines to protect important water sources & the environment #realleadership #listentothepeople

The announcements I've seen say that he want to renegotiate with the companies involved to require use of steel made in the USA and he wants a "better deal for the US gov't (warning biased article):

President Donald Trump took steps to advance construction of the Keystone XL and Dakota Access oil pipelines, while demanding a renegotiation to get a better deal for the U.S. government.

Trump stopped short of green lighting construction on either pipeline but put a deadline on the government’s review of TransCanada Corp.’s proposed Keystone XL to transport Alberta oil sands crude to U.S. refineries. Trump also announced policies to encourage the use of American-made products in U.S. pipeline projects and to curtail federal environmental reviews for major infrastructure projects.

"If we’re going to build pipelines in the United States, the pipes should be made in the United States," Trump said.

The moves, taken on Trump’s fourth full day in office, are a major departure from the Obama administration, which rejected the Keystone proposal in 2015 and has kept Dakota Access blocked since September. Environmentalists, concerned about climate change and damage to water and land, now face an executive branch that’s less sympathetic to their efforts. For the oil industry, it heralds more freedom to expand infrastructure and ease transportation bottlenecks.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer cast that possible renegotiation of the Dakota Access project as a way to address concerns by stakeholders, including the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, which is concerned about Native-American cultural sites and the safety of its water supply.

Seems like they could easily reroute the pipeline the way Putin rerouted one of the Russia-China pipelines so it wasn't so close to the Capian sea (or lake Baikal?) a few years ago. Here's hoping!

 

[Meager1]

That pipeline issue might be the thing that causes an actual revolution in America.
The NDN,s will not back down, they will die there.
Most of the tribes have already concluded that no Treaty ever made or signed, was actually legal since
The NDN nations signed as nations, with a corporation .. known as the United States.
Nation to corporation Treaties, are not binding on the nation.

Yes, it was a contract, but it was fraudulent
From the beginning, since the United States is nothing more then the original Virginia Land Company a corporation under
Charter from the King, given a new name when the states decided to join together to form a union under a Constitution. However, it seems that when the south left the union, that original contract was broken and the next Constitution was created for the corporation, not the people. The people are only bound because they consent to be governed by the United States Corp. should the people ever revoke their consent, there is no government. NDN peoples have revoked their consent, and it might get ugly soon.

 

[Cosmos]

In regards to the pipeline issue, Trump probably sees it more in pragmatic terms like: What is more important, to make america great again and securing a important lifeline for americans, or the concerns of a minority about possible pollutions somewhere at some point?

I guess Trump is the pragmatic type and tries to make sure to keep the bigger picture in mind. I understand the concerns there, but there is also the question what is more important at this point in time and what are the priorities.

I guess if he really sees a value and a good reason in redirecting the route of that pipline, he will do it. But if there is non, he will push it through for the sake of all americans. OSIT.

 

[Ca.]

Bloomberg
Under Trump, It’s Make a Deal With the President -- or Else
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-25/under-trump-it-s-make-a-deal-with-the-president-or-else
by Justin Sink
January 25, 2017, 8:00 AM GMT+1
Snip:

He told the CEOs of major manufacturers they can look forward to lower taxes on products made in America. But if they move operations abroad, they’ll be slapped with a 35 percent border tax. He summoned U.S. automakers to make the same proposal, and dangled easier pollution rules as a sweetener. He offered to revive the Keystone and Dakota Access pipelines, with a catch: the pipes have to be made with U.S. steel.

It’s too soon to tell whether Trump will back up the threats and promises, or even whether he can. But the effort, aides say, is at the heart of the administration’s push to spur a rebirth of American manufacturing. In the coming weeks, he’s likely to employ the same tactic with other industries reliant on the federal government, pushing pharmaceutical companies to lower prices and defense contractors to reduce project bids.

After Trump used a similar strategy of threats and rewards to persuade United Technologies Corp.’s Carrier unit to scale back a plan to shift jobs from Indianapolis to Mexico, Summers wrote in an op-ed for the Washington Post that the move was redolent of Vladimir Putin’s Russia and an approach that would render the country "not only poorer but less free."

Palin said in a post on the website Young Conservatives that Trump was practicing "crony capitalism" that "amputated" the market’s "invisible hand."

Lot of links within:

May Is Just A Pawn - Trump's Real Target Is Merkel
Tyler Durden Jan 25, 2017 3:30 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-24/may-just-pawn-trumps-real-target-merkel
Snippets:

The bully-boy tactics of the schoolyard chime precisely with his 'America First' inauguration speech and Britain's isolation from its European partners as a consequence of the June 23 decision to go-it-alone, makes it an absolutely ideal target for Trump to flex muscles in the first week of his presidency. For Trump, it will be less a case of looking for chinks in the armour and more a search for armour among the chinks given the UK's relatively fragile guard.

Of course, the usual banalities regarding the 'special relationship' and the prospects for a trade deal (a pointless soundbite that London can't even begin to act on until the negotiations on an exit are completed by mid-2019 at the earliest) will almost certainly ensue.

Trump will probably point to his Scottish ancestry as a symbol of the bond between Washington and London (much to the chagrin of the Scottish nationalists), May will push out a message about the frank and useful discussions between the two and the illusion of a mutually beneficial meeting will be cocooned to be forever trotted out whenever required.

Skipping down

In that context, Trump's real target in Europe looks to be Angela Merkel, the German chancellor. Merkel, whether she likes to be perceived this way or not, is unambiguously the leader of the EU and that's certainly how he sees her. In interview with The Times and Bild last week, he made his position abundantly clear.

"I've had great respect for her, I felt she was a great, great leader," the president said, using the past tense. He then went on to attack her by proxy slating BMW for building a plant in Mexico and then lambasting Merkel for a "catastrophic mistake" in opening Germany's borders to 1.5 million immigrants.

Beaucoup Links within:

DNC and Wish Full Thinking

http://<iframe width="560" height="...GY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here Is The List Of Donald Trump's "Priority" Infrastructure Projects
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-24/here-list-donald-trumps-priority-infrastructure-projects
by Tyler Durden Jan 25, 2017 5:26 AM
Snip:

The National Governors Association circulated a similar list as a spreadsheet among state officials in December, requesting further suggestions. All but two projects on both lists are the same. Some projects that governors suggested — in California and Washington state in particular — do not yet appear on either list. The governors’ association has received 43 responses from states and territories so far, said Elena Waskey, a spokeswoman for the association.

“The total number of projects is more than 300,” Waskey said. “We are working to convene information for as many states as possible that we will then forward to the administration.” The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

THE HORRIBLE TRUTH ABOUT TRUMP 1-24-17
SGT
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vRHE1X3Ps

 

[Alana]

I could pretty much understand where Judd was going with this... up until she said 'Hillary'. Right there, a feminist loses me. Clinton is not an 'ideal' - she's a warmongering, people-hating nutcase.

I think it would be more useful if we were to try to understand the perspective of those who feel as Judd does, rather than brush them aside as "mentally retarded freaks."

I agree, I was just in Northern California and want to relate my experience there that was down right disturbing. I was staying with some good friends of mine that I've known for 30yrs, I would describe them as decent normal people we basically agree on the same things, a more caring just-world.

Normally we can discuss most everything including politics, we might not agree on everything but it's civil. Of course politics came up, I knew they were down on Trump so I was careful with what I said staying neutral. It didn't take much to set them off the edge and they got very angry at me, it caught me off guard and I wasn't expecting such a reaction very out of character for them. It freaked me out so much I almost left.

This same reaction happened with practically everyone I meet on my trip, I wouldn't call these people libtards in the sense of the crazies like we see on the internet, basically caring people. Something very strange is taking place I think it's a type of ponerization. People's critically thinking is gone and they're running purely on fear and emotion.

I think we should be careful just lumping everyone as "mentally retarded freaks."

What I see on social media these days being post from friends in North America (but even Greece and Cyprus) has left me pretty depressed. It is not so much because most everyone is anti-Trump, but the fact that there is so much unwarranted animosity and hysteria in most people's posts not only against Trump but also anyone who supports him. They will use even trivial things or right-out lies to show everyone that a Trump presidency is the worst thing that could have ever happened, not only to America but the whole world.

The other night however, the irony in something made me laugh. I saw a post of a Canadian anti-Trump friend, who was trying to start a conversation with the pro-Trumpers, trying to see their point of view. It was very interesting to read all the responses, but the funny thing was, that like us here, some anti-Trump people would say things that in sum sound like: "Not all supporters of Trump are racist, sexist, bigoted people, I know a few generally kind and intelligent folks who support him and I am also trying to understand why, they are probably acting out of fear and emotion".

So it seems that that the way people who support (or just not oppose) Trump are viewed by some of the more open anti-trumpers the same way we view them. Despite laughing at this little thing, I am still feeling a bit depressed and apprehensive these days. My sleep has not been very good, and I find myself speechless in most occasion (which is rare for me) and have been using other people’s words and images on social media (for which, I thank you all). I don’t know where this is going, like the guys said on SOTT Radio Show on Sunday, it might be something that eventually dies down. But every day Trump is signing 100 new decisions that fire up again both the informed and uninformed crowds against him. That gives me some hope though. It might mean that he is not in office to gain the popularity contest but he has a real overarching plan and he is getting busy working on implementing it step by step. Or so I hope. Anyway, this is my attemp to break out of the "speechless spell".

 

[bjorb]

I could pretty much understand where Judd was going with this... up until she said 'Hillary'. Right there, a feminist loses me. Clinton is not an 'ideal' - she's a warmongering, people-hating nutcase.

I think it would be more useful if we were to try to understand the perspective of those who feel as Judd does, rather than brush them aside as "mentally retarded freaks."

I agree, I was just in Northern California and want to relate my experience there that was down right disturbing. I was staying with some good friends of mine that I've known for 30yrs, I would describe them as decent normal people we basically agree on the same things, a more caring just-world.

Normally we can discuss most everything including politics, we might not agree on everything but it's civil. Of course politics came up, I knew they were down on Trump so I was careful with what I said staying neutral. It didn't take much to set them off the edge and they got very angry at me, it caught me off guard and I wasn't expecting such a reaction very out of character for them. It freaked me out so much I almost left.

This same reaction happened with practically everyone I meet on my trip, I wouldn't call these people libtards in the sense of the crazies like we see on the internet, basically caring people. Something very strange is taking place I think it's a type of ponerization. People's critically thinking is gone and they're running purely on fear and emotion.

I think we should be careful just lumping everyone as "mentally retarded freaks."

What I see on social media these days being post from friends in North America (but even Greece and Cyprus) has left me pretty depressed. It is not so much because most everyone is anti-Trump, but the fact that there is so much unwarranted animosity and hysteria in most people's posts not only against Trump but also anyone who supports him. They will use even trivial things or right-out lies to show everyone that a Trump presidency is the worst thing that could have ever happened, not only to America but the whole world.

The other night however, the irony in something made me laugh. I saw a post of a Canadian anti-Trump friend, who was trying to start a conversation with the pro-Trumpers, trying to see their point of view. It was very interesting to read all the responses, but the funny thing was, that like us here, some anti-Trump people would say things that in sum sound like: "Not all supporters of Trump are racist, sexist, bigoted people, I know a few generally kind and intelligent folks who support him and I am also trying to understand why, they are probably acting out of fear and emotion".

So it seems that that the way people who support (or just not oppose) Trump are viewed by some of the more open anti-trumpers the same way we view them. Despite laughing at this little thing, I am still feeling a bit depressed and apprehensive these days. My sleep has not been very good, and I find myself speechless in most occasion (which is rare for me) and have been using other people’s words and images on social media (for which, I thank you all). I don’t know where this is going, like the guys said on SOTT Radio Show on Sunday, it might be something that eventually dies down. But every day Trump is signing 100 new decisions that fire up again both the informed and uninformed crowds against him. That gives me some hope though. It might mean that he is not in office to gain the popularity contest but he has a real overarching plan and he is getting busy working on implementing it step by step. Or so I hope. Anyway, this is my attemp to break out of the "speechless spell".

My description of them was more like how a savage hooligan would describe it, I see now that is the wrong approach. I forced myself to watch every celebrity speech, trying to get what this ''revolution'' is all about. It left me with the impression that those people are completely hopeless. And maybe it is.

Although, when you have been emotionally invested in a poisonous ideology for far to long. Going in complete meltdown mode when your perceived reality crashes can be part of a healing process. Which is always brutal, but something that is natural.

So I think, for many of the die hard Liberals. Trump offers them the chance to see things from another perspective and get more real.

Next to the good observations already shared, I want to add that this Liberal conception of the World is rather warm and cozy. Where saying nice things is the solution to everything. Deep down I think, they just want a leader who say nice things. Who keeps them warm and cozy and cuddles them in. They only care about appearances, not substance.

And now with Trump they have a president that is getting down to business, doesn't care about political correctness and is calling a spade a spade when necessary. Trump is literally trashing their comfort zone like no other.

So they either sober up, start questioning their perceived reality. Or get more extreme in their ideology.

 

[lilies]

Pipeline pros:
Decrees number 9 and 10 are quoted from here:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/10-executive-actions-trump-signed-far/

[..]
The announcements I've seen say that he want to renegotiate with the companies involved to require use of steel made in the USA and he wants a "better deal for the US gov't (warning biased article):
[..]
Seems like they could easily reroute the pipeline the way Putin rerouted one of the Russia-China pipelines so it wasn't so close to the Capian sea (or lake Baikal?) a few years ago. Here's hoping!

Trump's decree also reflects serious thinking and so is directly opposed to the way of how the Bush-Obama Crime Syndicate operated their territory in the past 16 years:

9. American steel in pipelines. President Trump directed the Commerce Secretary to come up with a plan to ensure that all pipelines built or repaired in the United States be constructed with American-made materials “to the maximum extent possible.”
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/24/presidential-memorandum-regarding-construction-american-pipelines

So that corresponds to my earlier thought "Make unbreakable pipelines" and its reassuring.

Also this order:

10. Review manufacturing regulations. In this memorandum, the president ordered the Commerce Secretary to begin a 60-day review of regulations for American manufacturers, with the aim of finding ways to speed up permitting and all federal processes for them.

New target: where Trump comes closest to Putin in making the country production effective again and be seen as a no-nonsense and popular president, liked by the people, because his good and useful orders far surpass the debatable ones.

Now absorbing these news - executive orders signed so far -, I'm exercising my free will and assertively setting course toward the timeline branches that come as close as possible to the above target. In order that I'll be able to get there, again, I have to put my house in order [internal state] so it aligns the targeted timeline-branch of the Universe, where I WANT to end up.

 

[kalibex]

I guess if he really sees a value and a good reason in redirecting the route of that pipline, he will do it. But if there is non, he will push it through for the sake of all americans. OSIT.

Or possibly, like any other fallible human, he will make some mistakes and missteps along the way. Possibly some very BIG ones.

Time will tell if he handles the details of those pipelines in a manner that shows external consideration for ALL stakeholders.

 

[Joe]

Trump also used the typical 1930s diction of the traitor within:

“For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation’s capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.”

I think what he, and many others, fail to grasp here is that, sure, Hitler used the "enemy within" to take power when there was no enemy within. Today, Trump uses it, and who can argue that there is no enemy within in the form of the 'deep state'? The point being, the use of an 'enemy within' speech is appropriate if there IS an enemy within.

 

[Joe]

Trump says he'll approve Keystone and DAPL. Not really surprised, though, considering he took these positions during his campaign.

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38734450

Thoughts?

I remember Joe talking about the pipeline around 2 months ago on the radio show.
The gist I think was that it 'needs' to go ahead because America is super dependent on oil.
That's not to say the pipeline or where it is being routed is right, just that America and it's military would collapse if it exceedingly high demand isn't met.

I think this pipeline protest business is part of either a deliberate campaign to get a revolution going, just one part of the campaign to whip up a certain section of the population, to create a particular climate. The anti-Trump business seems to be part of that. The more I think about it the more I think that the defining aspect of a Trump presidency is going to be some kind of revolution or social chaos in the USA, with Trump simply being used as the fall guy.

 

[Rhythmik]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824227824903090176
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824228768227217408 can we embed tweets?

"I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal and even, those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time). Depending on results, we will strengthen up voting procedures!"

Does Trump expect to find something? Are we going to find evidence that he won the popular vote?

I had someone tell me he's doing this "because he wants to go after voting rights in swing states. Make it easier to implement NC type voting restrictions and gerrymandering without voter resistance."

 

[neema]

It’s getting more and more scary.

If the liberal left continues with its shenanigans, I can easily see how a Trump presidency could be pushed into an overt dictatorship. Half the population in the “land of the free” would welcome it. Like a Pandora’s box. By the time most wake up to the nightmare, it would be too late to do much anything about it.

Except to pray for comets I suppose.

Its always through our own fears that we create the worst nightmares.

 

[Hesper]

Trump also used the typical 1930s diction of the traitor within:

“For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation’s capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.”

I think what he, and many others, fail to grasp here is that, sure, Hitler used the "enemy within" to take power when there was no enemy within. Today, Trump uses it, and who can argue that there is no enemy within in the form of the 'deep state'? The point being, the use of an 'enemy within' speech is appropriate if there IS an enemy within.

Absolutely.

Speaking of Hitler, he was a looney tune from the very beginning, winding up in homeless shelters 'preaching' to the down-and-out like a maniac. His ideas were grandiose and pathological and he left the actual details to others to figure out. When I hear statements like these from DNC chair candidate Sally Boynton Brown who thinks the best way to solve the 'Trump problem' is to 'shut white people down,' I'm reminded of a Hitler-type mentality:

http://<iframe width="560" height="...mo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I guess if we take the talking point that 'racism got Trump elected' then we need to 'shut white people down' in order to fix it. But sheesh what does that even mean? It's such a bizarre, racially charged view of the situation that it's difficult to wrap my mind around.

Trump says he'll approve Keystone and DAPL. Not really surprised, though, considering he took these positions during his campaign.

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38734450

Thoughts?

I remember Joe talking about the pipeline around 2 months ago on the radio show.
The gist I think was that it 'needs' to go ahead because America is super dependent on oil.
That's not to say the pipeline or where it is being routed is right, just that America and it's military would collapse if it exceedingly high demand isn't met.

I think this pipeline protest business is part of either a deliberate campaign to get a revolution going, just one part of the campaign to whip up a certain section of the population, to create a particular climate. The anti-Trump business seems to be part of that. The more I think about it the more I think that the defining aspect of a Trump presidency is going to be some kind of revolution or social chaos in the USA, with Trump simply being used as the fall guy.

From a deep state perspective that's been on my mind too. It's sheer speculation and I'd rather not think about it, but it's possible that a tragic end to a Trump Presidency could be turned into a 'Continuity of Government' type scenario.

From Sott: Dick Cheney's 'deep state' and "Continuity in Government" measures on 9/11

 

[kalibex]

I think this pipeline protest business is part of either a deliberate campaign to get a revolution going, just one part of the campaign to whip up a certain section of the population, to create a particular climate. The anti-Trump business seems to be part of that. The more I think about it the more I think that the defining aspect of a Trump presidency is going to be some kind of revolution or social chaos in the USA, with Trump simply being used as the fall guy.

Does this statement imply that you believe that the native protestors are also being used and manipulated into taking a stand that they can't win? This no-DAPL protest is not exactly inconsistent with their general beliefs and philosophy. This protest also did not just start with the Trump presidency.

 

[Beau]

Trump also used the typical 1930s diction of the traitor within:

“For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered, but the jobs left and the factories closed. The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation’s capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.”

I think what he, and many others, fail to grasp here is that, sure, Hitler used the "enemy within" to take power when there was no enemy within. Today, Trump uses it, and who can argue that there is no enemy within in the form of the 'deep state'? The point being, the use of an 'enemy within' speech is appropriate if there IS an enemy within.

Yup. There is a total lack of nuance from Juan Cole and others who like to make these blanket statements that ignore the devil in the details. The sad part is that these people are working for the very interests that Trump is proposing to defeat by looking to have their preconceived notions (Trump is Hitler/neo-fascist) confirmed by his words and actions. As seen above, it can be done but it is taken out of context. Very disappointing to see what used to be clear thinkers get lost in their own muddled conclusions.