What programs have YOU discovered?

[Bluestar]

Hi Bud,

I have not heard of the Doctrine of the Present before in this term, but from reading much of the threads I understand the concept. This is much of what I am working on at the moment. To be in the present. To see as much as I can around me, within me and how my mind, body and emotions are within this moment. It only lasts for a very short time. Sometimes I can observe a program coming to the surface and can switch it to passive.

For example; if I am driving and someone cuts me off in a hazardous way, I can feel the program come up where I want to react with anger or even to just brush it off with an excuse for the driver. Like that person might be having a bad day or he/she did not see me or something to that effect. Sometimes I am able to take a breath and just let it go with no thought at all about it. Maybe it is mechanical in nature where I just continue to drive on. Not sure.

EE has helped me to at least be calmer in a sticky situation. There are moments where I can walk in my backyard and just observe the moment of tranquility. Listen to the noises around me, feel the air on my skin, fill my lungs. Notice the movements of birds and insects. Then the mind within milliseconds has a thought like 'breathe' or 'this is beautiful' and the moment is lost. But I feel glad that there was this moment.

As far as Kant's quote, I see what you mean that this is what we are striving for and that what he is referring to is 'the watcher'

from Bud

I don't know about "first cause" so much though, since there are seemingly so many interrelated and interconnected forces and causal loops acting together all the time, but I imagine it will certainly seem like it at first and I can say that you will seem to have more choice as to what you do and when you do it (since you would not be nearly as reactive as you used to be).

hmmn, I am thinking that the "first cause" might mean being the initiator of action without any influences from external things or programs or past experiences. But I can not even begin to come up with an example. It is far from my reach at this time.

At the moment I am also working on observing the 'like' and 'don't like' syndrome. How much is this leading me along in this life? I can see where it is not as powerful as it has been in my past where it was the only motivation I had. Especially when I go through remembering my childhood and adolescent years. Somewhere in my twenties I started to see the world different while dealing with illness and injury to my body. Some of the things I "liked" I could no longer do or eat and had to reformate my lifestyle and adjust. Now I am taking it a step further to see how this "syndrome" effects my daily life. When I give in to my "likes" or if I don't like something how I avoid it. If it is a necessary task that I do not like, how am I thinking and feeling while doing it. So am not sure if I am off base with these practices, though I continue with them.

Be well everyone

You too. :)

Thanks :)

 

[Buddy]

[...]
At the moment I am also working on observing the 'like' and 'don't like' syndrome. How much is this leading me along in this life? I can see where it is not as powerful as it has been in my past where it was the only motivation I had. Especially when I go through remembering my childhood and adolescent years. Somewhere in my twenties I started to see the world different while dealing with illness and injury to my body. Some of the things I "liked" I could no longer do or eat and had to reformate my lifestyle and adjust. Now I am taking it a step further to see how this "syndrome" effects my daily life. When I give in to my "likes" or if I don't like something how I avoid it. If it is a necessary task that I do not like, how am I thinking and feeling while doing it. So am not sure if I am off base with these practices, though I continue with them.

Others may have more helpful perspectives, but personally, I think you are "on base" with those practices. The more you get to know the personality's likes and dislikes (and the underlying whys), the better you know yourself, OSIT. :)

 

[Iron]

Ark asked in one session why some people get important clues or something like that, and cs' said that suffering unlocks some kind of DNA. And I have read Laura about nothing free, and that you have to pay. So maybe the answer is to suffer... but you won't suffer naturally if you ask for it, I don't know, it's like a path you choose. And incredible after weeks or days of sadness your brain kind of open to new ideas and concepts... and then you have paid the price.
And in my case for example, when I was suffering all I wanted as air, was to know why, to know what the hell was happening. It's like a domino effect.

I think it is not just the suffering, you gotta have a certain attitude towards it.
I think that if you are suffering but just wants to the pain to go away so that you return to your old ways, you have paid nothing.
Also you can pay with efforts to learn, with efforts to contribute anything to the network.
The actions that follow the distressed state make all the diference in the sense of if you paid the universe or not. At least the is how I understand the situation right now.

 

[obyvatel]

At the moment I am also working on observing the 'like' and 'don't like' syndrome. How much is this leading me along in this life? I can see where it is not as powerful as it has been in my past where it was the only motivation I had. Especially when I go through remembering my childhood and adolescent years. Somewhere in my twenties I started to see the world different while dealing with illness and injury to my body. Some of the things I "liked" I could no longer do or eat and had to reformate my lifestyle and adjust.

Hi Bluestar,
Have you read "In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness" by Peter Levine? I am reading this book now and it has some great insights about how the body responds to trauma and injury and how it continues to affect us in later years without us being aware of the real reasons underlying various "likes and dislikes" we may have.

 

[cubbex]

Ark asked in one session why some people get important clues or something like that, and cs' said that suffering unlocks some kind of DNA. And I have read Laura about nothing free, and that you have to pay. So maybe the answer is to suffer... but you won't suffer naturally if you ask for it, I don't know, it's like a path you choose. And incredible after weeks or days of sadness your brain kind of open to new ideas and concepts... and then you have paid the price.
And in my case for example, when I was suffering all I wanted as air, was to know why, to know what the hell was happening. It's like a domino effect.

I think it is not just the suffering, you gotta have a certain attitude towards it.
I think that if you are suffering but just wants to the pain to go away so that you return to your old ways, you have paid nothing.
Also you can pay with efforts to learn, with efforts to contribute anything to the network.
The actions that follow the distressed state make all the diference in the sense of if you paid the universe or not. At least the is how I understand the situation right now.

Of course, because there is people having more pain than any of us, and even in that way, they do not want answers or to help people to aproach similar events in the best way. To pay to the world it doesn't look so literal, just as a metaphore to the subject. You may see that mature people is those who suffer most, not just crying there are different kinds of pain, and indeed you need to work hard, and make the efforts worth the suffering.

In this way, you may not suffer for everything and just go and suffer, there need to be a reason, a reason related to the grow of the conscience in yourself, like seeing all the lies and feel sad because of it. So then bye the unlocking of those DNA changes, maybe you then acces with your efforts to more information and knowledge within you.

And of course you may feel sad, as I see in some cs' session because of some cosmic changes or something like that, or because of what you have eaten wheat or something that alters your mood.

 

[Bluestar]

At the moment I am also working on observing the 'like' and 'don't like' syndrome. How much is this leading me along in this life? I can see where it is not as powerful as it has been in my past where it was the only motivation I had. Especially when I go through remembering my childhood and adolescent years. Somewhere in my twenties I started to see the world different while dealing with illness and injury to my body. Some of the things I "liked" I could no longer do or eat and had to reformate my lifestyle and adjust.

Hi Bluestar,
Have you read "In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness" by Peter Levine? I am reading this book now and it has some great insights about how the body responds to trauma and injury and how it continues to affect us in later years without us being aware of the real reasons underlying various "likes and dislikes" we may have.

Thanks Obyvatel, this is next on my reading list. Had two whiplash injuries from car accidents and whenever I have had some kind of massage tool that vibrates used in therapy on my neck, the symptoms come back and last for days. Don't do that anymore ;)

 

[Ollie]

At the moment I am also working on observing the 'like' and 'don't like' syndrome. How much is this leading me along in this life? I can see where it is not as powerful as it has been in my past where it was the only motivation I had. Especially when I go through remembering my childhood and adolescent years. Somewhere in my twenties I started to see the world different while dealing with illness and injury to my body. Some of the things I "liked" I could no longer do or eat and had to reformate my lifestyle and adjust.

Hi Bluestar,
Have you read "In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness" by Peter Levine? I am reading this book now and it has some great insights about how the body responds to trauma and injury and how it continues to affect us in later years without us being aware of the real reasons underlying various "likes and dislikes" we may have.

This book is highly recommended to read, I'm about half way through, and the insights are tremendous, and very practical.

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

Hi all

I've been trying hard to uncover my programs. One thing I've noticed is that often that often when I initially 'see' a program running, the program itself is usually supported by other underlying more fundamental or 'root' programs/narcissism etc.

For instance, one of my more 'superficial' programs recently has been a real disdain/irritation for lovers of mainstream/celebrity culture. I usually work from home but have been spending more time travelling to the office recently to find that many of my colleague's tend to revel in idle celebrity gossip and endless speculation about national TV talent shows. But really this 'disdain' program seems to be rooted both in loneliness, the feeling that I am separate or distant from others and not wanting to be and also a self importance that feels I have some superior knowledge to them and that they are wasting their energies idly. This latter program clearly involves also the assumption that 'I know what's best' for others and have a right to determine their needs which is clearly not a service to others disposition.

My main and most damaging programs definitely revolve around themes of self pity, my internal monologue often crying 'why me?', 'It's not fair', 'after everything I've been through' and 'Not again!'. These programs provoke extremely physical reactions in me in the form of negative energy and intense irritation and are definitely 'me' at my most mechanical. Interestingly, they are generally completely disproportionate to what I'm experiencing at the time. ie they don't manifest in the face of some huge crisis but rather tend to grip me daily and activate when I have to do something like alot of housework, spend a weekend looking after my son or going to a social function that I have no interest in. Here we have self importance again: 'why should I have to indulge in this monotony/drudgery!'

In this sense, I feel I have a 'anything more will tip me over the edge' program running in tandem with the various manifestations of self pity. The predator is always trying to convince me that I've had such a difficult and dull life that any more of the same is outrageously in-just. In the past this has led to many a justification to go out drinking and convinced me that this is deserved. I wonder also if I or rather the predator is completely addicted to the particular emotions which are aroused by these self pity programs even though I experience them subjectively as unpleasant. They are undeniably energetically powerful.

The 'I am right' program and 'need to correct others' is also very strong with me and this seems be strongly interwoven with psychological projection. Seeing programs/issues/behaviors in others which I know I struggle with activates a definite frustration in me. This usually exacerbates any negative aspect of the interaction and triggering further frustration in myself. The 'why can't they see their problem!' program kicks in and it's usually only in retrospect that I realise that I'm simply identifying elements in others which I loathe in myself. Of course there are more programs running concurrently in these instances. Self importance: 'I am right and have correctly assessed this persons psyche' and implicitly denial: 'I am fit/justified to assess/judge/correct this individuals behavior'.

I'm sure I have loads more but these currently seem to be the most problematic and the ones I'm trying hard to both identify and eradicate. The identification is relatively easy but eradicating them not so. I'm in the habit of simply watching myself most the time now for these emotional reactions and am at the point of successfully predicting where and in what circumstances they will arise. But as laura mentions in SHOTW, getting that physiological response under control in the present tense moment is certainly not easy and can be downright painful!

I've also found that there seem to be two main settings against which the above programs arise: In company in which I react to others specific behaviour and/or actions and in solitude in which my programs can simply free-form on their own. The former I feel like I've had considerable success with but to me, the latter is far more insidious and dangerous. Periods of inactivity seem to present the ideal breeding ground for my programs to take on a life of their own and I can find myself in the grip of ridiculous internal conversations revolving around self pity etc. This is something I really need to work hard on as the predator's mind really can snowball quickly.

On a positive note, continuous self observation is perhaps not as exhausting as I thought it may be and being as objective as I can, I feel that some of my programs are perhaps starting to dissipate. This has manifested as my mind starting to feel just much calmer and strangely a little blank. I suppose it just feels quite unusual and a little disconcerting for me not to have this persistent noise and negative internal monologue (involving a multitude of programs) all the time whether it be in company or in solitude. Just wondering if anyone else has had this blank feeling?

Oh, and I forgot to mention procrastination. For me, this a bizarre and deceptive program where I falsely believe that I don't have time or energy to DO anything and should I embark on a project, it will be too much for me emotionally and I will fail (self pity again). Thus getting very little done due to this persistent and insidious program, my time and energy is consumed with worrying about the fact that I haven't done anything!! This obviously involves the inactivity to which I refferred above in which the predators mind kicks in and all my other programs are inclined to take over. All I can say here is that I really need to tackle all my programs together as best I can rather than in sequence as what I seem to be dealing with here is an insanely clever system whereby leaving any one program untouched may be detrimental as it has the ability to feed or re-animate the others no-matter how well I have addressed these other programs previously.

 

[Gertrudes]

Hi Pai,

Thank you for your post, it's very interesting to see what comes out after a period of intense self observation. Plenty of material for you to work with :). I could also relate to some of the things you said.
It would be interesting for you to perhaps go back to your post in a couple of months and read it, and compare what you've written to where you will be at that moment. It can be very useful, you might find things you'd forgotten you had already identified and an "aha!" moment might click again, and you might also find things that have transformed since the time you've posted.

I'm sure I have loads more but these currently seem to be the most problematic and the ones I'm trying hard to both identify and eradicate. The identification is relatively easy but eradicating them not so. I'm in the habit of simply watching myself most the time now for these emotional reactions and am at the point of successfully predicting where and in what circumstances they will arise. But as laura mentions in SHOTW, getting that physiological response under control in the present tense moment is certainly not easy and can be downright painful!

I just want to comment on this particular paragraph. I find that in order to eradicate something, one has to replace it with something else consciously chosen, otherwise the "hole" we're left with will fill itself up the way it wants, which won't necessarily be in line with our best interests. Personally I find that if left alone, that hole will fill itself up the easiest and most lethargic way it can fill itself with, finding another program or disguising the same program as something else.

In the second part of your paragraph you said that you were at the point of successfully predicting when and where a program will arise. Perhaps tinking beforehand and practicing what you can replace it with will help. This way you won't find yourself unprepared when the program arises, having as an only choice an attempt to eradication. I may be wrong but I would even add that eradication is likely not possible, but transformation is. Transforming one energy to another, in other words, preparing yourself with the alternative you you want to live in those circumstances, and when the time comes, choosing it instead of the program you are already familiar with.

You know, I've spent my lifetime trying to eradicate parts of me I deemed as bad. Some were indeed the predator, some were just unheard parts that behaved erratically for me to see them, it is hard to tell as often one seems to merge with the other. In any case, Eradicate for me didn't prove realistic for the reasons mentioned above, although I still find myself reacting mechanically trying to get it all out in an all or nothing attitude (not saying that this is what you are doing though!) However, when I give myself the mental space to hear the inner chatter and make a choice on which voice to act, instead of trying to shut the "evil" voice down, that's when I get positive results. Practicing "the me I choose to be" before difficult situations I am already familiar with (when I do manage to practice it) is also being very useful to me, hence my suggestion.

On a positive note, continuous self observation is perhaps not as exhausting as I thought it may be and being as objective as I can, I feel that some of my programs are perhaps starting to dissipate. This has manifested as my mind starting to feel just much calmer and strangely a little blank. I suppose it just feels quite unusual and a little disconcerting for me not to have this persistent noise and negative internal monologue (involving a multitude of programs) all the time whether it be in company or in solitude. Just wondering if anyone else has had this blank feeling?

I've only had that feeling very, very sporadically. I find it interesting though how things tend to dissipate just by being observed. It is really an amazing process. It's like once you acknowledge them they no longer need to be there, at least not wit the same intensity.

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

Hello Gertrudes

Firstly, thanks for your insights, it's great to have some feedback on these matters.

I just want to comment on this particular paragraph. I find that in order to eradicate something, one has to replace it with something else consciously chosen, otherwise the "hole" we're left with will fill itself up the way it wants, which won't necessarily be in line with our best interests. Personally I find that if left alone, that hole will fill itself up the easiest and most lethargic way it can fill itself with, finding another program or disguising the same program as something else.

In the second part of your paragraph you said that you were at the point of successfully predicting when and where a program will arise. Perhaps tinking beforehand and practicing what you can replace it with will help. This way you won't find yourself unprepared when the program arises, having as an only choice an attempt to eradication.

This make lot of sense and I'm in agreement with you here. There needs to be a conscious, practical 'affirming' replacement of the old behaviour which is a practical manifestation of the various programs we hold. Perhaps I'm over-simplfying things here and being naive but for me this usually just involves doing the exact opposite of what I've always done. I'll give you an example:

I think I definitely have a mild obsessive compulsive disorder and have always had a problem with mess and clutter around the house. After moving from London a few years back we have managed to accumulate a huge amount of stuff. My wife is somewhat of a serial hoarder and accumulater and will rarely come back from a trip out without buying some little thing from a charity shop or somewhere. We also have a young son who is also the only grandchild on both sides of the family and is quite spoiled to the extent that the house is also ram packed with enough toys for about 5 kids imo. Our house is genuinely very cluttered. We both work odd shifts and are busy alot of the time and basically the place ends up completely trashed more often than not with things strewn around the floor from one side of the house to the other.

So, if I'm particularly stressed or tired this mess will set of a whole series of self pity programs. My internal monologue/mechanical self kicks in with 'how can this place be like this again?', 'I don't have the time or energy to sort this place out', 'what's wrong with my wife that she needs all this stuff?', 'not again!' etc etc. I can literally drive myself mad with these mechanical reactions.

So, what I've being doing recently when I hear/see these thoughts arising arising is literally to pause and talk to myself. I'll have a conversation in which I'll generally tell myself that I'm being mechanical and secondly that the thoughts are not going to hep me in the slightest. I then attempt some rationality by contextualising the situation in which i remind myself that the place looks the way it does as I'm fortunate to have a lovely home that I live in with a wife that loves and cares for me and a son that is fortunate to have the advantages of also being loved and cared for. I guess this is the replacement and again I'm really just doing the exact opposite of what i normally do.

The scary thing is is that it actually seems to work most of the time at least to some extent and I'm actually quite disconcerted by this and almost disbelieving in some sense. I'm still at the stage where i feel that there's some element luck going on here and it can't possibly last. As i initially mentioned, i think I've literally been addicted to these negative emotions for such a long time now that I'm almost left with a sense of wondering who I am when I succeed. Does that make sense? i guess this is similar to what you're practicing yourself and indeed as you say I'm now trying to address programs before they arise:

when I give myself the mental space to hear the inner chatter and make a choice on which voice to act, instead of trying to shut the "evil" voice down, that's when I get positive results. Practicing "the me I choose to be" before difficult situations I am already familiar with (when I do manage to practice it) is also being very useful to me, hence my suggestion.

Reflecting on all of this though, and considering the possibility of 'eradication' this only feels like the beginning of 'the Work'. In my example above, the reaction, the mechanicalness is absolutely still there, it's just that it's been prematurely stopped in its tacks and taken down a different path. What I'm wondering though is that if this is practiced often enough and consistently enough, does a program ever have have a possibility of disappearing completely without the need to be stopped? This is probably not even a useful or healthy question for my psyche as I genuinely find the possibilties to be fraught with uncertainty on many levels.

So much of our existence here in 3rd density has the concept of a beginning/ middle/end embedded into it and in this respect I suppose the work on ourselves differs from so many common aspects of life as it seems like a process without absolute completion. I do find this frightening. And here we have another one of my programs, the need to complete or get things done! Perhaps then this is the one I need to work on urgently in order that I can apply myself to the work without encountering the kind of anticipation surrounding this program that will stifle me.....

Again, thank-you for your input, you've certainly got me thinking.....

 

[Gertrudes]

Hi Pai,

A couple of things:

I think I definitely have a mild obsessive compulsive disorder and have always had a problem with mess and clutter around the house. After moving from London a few years back we have managed to accumulate a huge amount of stuff. My wife is somewhat of a serial hoarder and accumulater and will rarely come back from a trip out without buying some little thing from a charity shop or somewhere. We also have a young son who is also the only grandchild on both sides of the family and is quite spoiled to the extent that the house is also ram packed with enough toys for about 5 kids imo. Our house is genuinely very cluttered. We both work odd shifts and are busy alot of the time and basically the place ends up completely trashed more often than not with things strewn around the floor from one side of the house to the other.

Considering what I've highlighted above, I wonder if when you say:

I then attempt some rationality by contextualising the situation in which i remind myself that the place looks the way it does as I'm fortunate to have a lovely home that I live in with a wife that loves and cares for me and a son that is fortunate to have the advantages of also being loved and cared for. I guess this is the replacement and again I'm really just doing the exact opposite of what i normally do.

You are truly changing gears, or are intellectualizing a situation that is making you uncomfortable. This is a genuine question as I don't know, but got a little confused. You are showing great discomfort towards clutter, but what might be a problem is that you seem to also be diverting your thoughts from it by thinking of something slightly different rather then addressing what is really bothering you, either by discussing it with your wife (have you talked with her about this already?) or by finding a strategy, a different thought pattern that concerns this specific problem: clutter. I had the sensation while reading your post that with the example you gave, you didn't seem to really replace one behavior for another, but rather perhaps intellectualize your discomfort about it and deflect your thoughts into something else. The way I see it, the replacement thought/behavior would be directly related to the problem itself, it would be a new way of dealing with the problem instead of turning the attention away from it.
I do hope someone chimes in in case I'm wrong as this is a good possibility, but maybe with more feedback from you we can try to sort out what is what.

This is a tricky thing, living as a couple involves much understanding and giving in from both sides, and maybe you are indeed a bit compulsive as you initially described yourself, but even in this case I tend to think that tackling your behavior specifically, understanding why you are bothered, whether that is valid and objective, and if so, how to work things out with your wife so as to start resolving this issue; if not, understand what causes the behavior and how to change it.

Reflecting on all of this though, and considering the possibility of 'eradication' this only feels like the beginning of 'the Work'. In my example above, the reaction, the mechanicalness is absolutely still there, it's just that it's been prematurely stopped in its tacks and taken down a different path. What I'm wondering though is that if this is practiced often enough and consistently enough, does a program ever have have a possibility of disappearing completely without the need to be stopped? This is probably not even a useful or healthy question for my psyche as I genuinely find the possibilities to be fraught with uncertainty on many levels.

So much of our existence here in 3rd density has the concept of a beginning/ middle/end embedded into it and in this respect I suppose the work on ourselves differs from so many common aspects of life as it seems like a process without absolute completion. I do find this frightening. And here we have another one of my programs, the need to complete or get things done! Perhaps then this is the one I need to work on urgently in order that I can apply myself to the work without encountering the kind of anticipation surrounding this program that will stifle me.....

I can't really answer that but I have a few theories, I suppose that we can indeed gain great mastery of our programs with much, much work, but I am also convinced that the Work will never stop, that is unless you make a choice to go back to entropy. I don't think that we can win the war but only battles, with each won battle we gain a glimpse of the magnitude of the war, with each won battle we are offered more challenging battles, more challenging enemies, all directly proportional to our level of development.

Allow me to make a comparison:
I am a Pilates teacher. In Pilates we address issues such as postural alignment and re balancing one's body on a skeleto-muscular level so as to gain maximum efficiency with minimum energy expenditure. I have been learning a lot by observing my clients, mostly about myself. The ones whose development usually stops are the ones who have a conscious or subconscious need of achieving some sort of perfection, as in, getting into a stage where their bodies will have the perfect posture and performance, and will stay there forever and they can just stop working because they've achieved it. That is impossible, as simple as that.
The other problem with this is that they don't understand that it is all about the process, yes, you do have an aim of getting better, but you can't really see the end because there is no such thing. There is only improving (or not) continuously, and once you become strong at something (we can make an analogy here of winning a battle) you are ready to start exploring something else, something for which you were not ready before (new battles, new enemies). However if you stop, all the work, all achievements will gradually start to dissipate.
But because having an expectation of gaining total control of one's body is unrealistic, the ones who expect such completely bypass the process because they can only see the end. Invariably they stop evolving. Then they become frustrated because they are not achieving what they expected to achieve (an illusion in the first place) and give up, and quite easily I must say. This is also something that I have done soooo much in my life that it feels like DCM is slapping this lesson right on my face over and over again for me to learn it

I know that the Work, as in 4th way Work, is from a completely different caliber, but I often find parallels between what I see in my classes and what is discussed here. I thought I'd mention a couple of examples I found appropriate for your question.

So much of our existence here in 3rd density has the concept of a beginning/ middle/end embedded into it and in this respect I suppose the work on ourselves differs from so many common aspects of life as it seems like a process without absolute completion.

Well put, so far this is also my understanding.

Have you discussed the problem you mentioned with your wife?

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

Gertrudes, I've read your above post with interest but am off for 5 days now to visit some of my wife's family.

I'll reflect on the points you've made and will reply when I come back middle of next week :)

 

[Lucius]

Last outdoor program:
I know that when someone is being harmed - is held in my anger and try to help that person.

I noticed this morning when they heard screams of a woman jumped out quickly on the outside and I noticed that I got the adrenaline and get mad that someone is hurting someone.

When someone stronger attacks someone weaker

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

You are truly changing gears, or are intellectualizing a situation that is making you uncomfortable. This is a genuine question as I don't know, but got a little confused. You are showing great discomfort towards clutter, but what might be a problem is that you seem to also be diverting your thoughts from it by thinking of something slightly different rather then addressing what is really bothering you, either by discussing it with your wife (have you talked with her about this already?) or by finding a strategy, a different thought pattern that concerns this specific problem: clutter. I had the sensation while reading your post that with the example you gave, you didn't seem to really replace one behavior for another, but rather perhaps intellectualize your discomfort about it and deflect your thoughts into something else. The way I see it, the replacement thought/behavior would be directly related to the problem itself, it would be a new way of dealing with the problem instead of turning the attention away from it.
I do hope someone chimes in in case I'm wrong as this is a good possibility, but maybe with more feedback from you we can try to sort out what is what.

Interesting points here. I'm not sure it's the case that I'm intellectualizing my discomfort and deflecting my thoughts onto something else. Perhaps I'm deluding myself but to me, this specific aspect of the process is about trying to stop the mechanical thoughts in their tracks as they arise in the present tense moment. Rather than diverting thoughts as you put it, I rather see this as a process in which I attempt to perceive the situation in a more objective light rather than allow the genesis various programs to occur within me such as self pity, irritation, anger etc which are founded in a very distorted and illusory perception of the situation. i.e some clutter in my house.

Being as objective as I can as I write and reflect, the clutter in my house is not a huge problem. It can be tidied and my life is not so busy that I cannot practically deal with this minor inconvenience. What is a problem is my reaction to it and the emotions/programs that it provokes which are disproportionate to the actual 'problem' itself. Thus when these emotions arise I attempt to literally challenge them and place the 'problem' within a more objective context. Previously, my reaction to clutter has simply been emotional and I guess in using this technique (perhaps it is simply just a deflection?) I'm aiming for the situation where one day I will not react emotionally. Hypothetically, If in the past I have had varying levels of emotional reaction to varying levels of clutter, one day perhaps I will not react at all. i.e achieve some permanency as opposed having these many 'I's'. This was my understanding of re-wiring the brain, literally training it to respond differently and ultimately consistently in line with objective reality. But please tell me if I'm way off here, I'm open to the possibility that I may well be!

You mention 'addressing what is really bothering you' and I think that clearly yes, this needs to be tackled in tandem with the observation of emotions/programs as they occur. As mentioned, for me (and perhaps this is generally true), it seems that with any emotional reaction there are always multiple underlying supporting programs. So with the clutter issue we have all kinds of things going on: self pity, entitlement, frustration etc etc and I guess 'addressing what is really bothering you' is concerned with trying to ascertain and separate the causes from the symptoms. For me, this has proved difficult as when I try to examine the root of an emotion I find it not be a simple 'tracing exercise' to determine the origin but rather a complex and tangled web of other emotions and programs which may have varying causes. This is what I meant regarding the need to tackle many programs at once when I said

I seem to be dealing with here is an insanely clever system whereby leaving any one program untouched may be detrimental as it has the ability to feed or re-animate the others no-matter how well I have addressed these other programs previously.

It is often said that people with OCD carry out rituals and compulsions as they feel they have no control over their lives and a permanent sense of dis-ease and the ritualistic sense of 'ordering' things helps them to alleviate their sense of helplessness and things being out of their control. Observing myself, this certainly seems to be partially the case. It's interesting as in this respect it is not dis-similar from the essence of what we call Magic(k). i.e Attempting to create an inner change through the outward manipulation of external reality in a ritualistic fashion. Of course with OCD sufferers these rituals only partially alleviate their sense of dis-ease and creates a whole load more problems on top. But anyway, I have certainly observed that I become more disturbed by clutter when I generally feel more 'out of my depth' or panicked in life. Whilst addressing the why I'm feeling panicked or out of my depth is paramount to being able to get the clutter program under control, I also feel that the technique of stopping the emotions which can be triggered and contextualising/rationalising them has been remarkably helpful: In a very practical sense, this particular clutter program seems to be far less prevalent and my emotional reaction to it seems to be reducing significantly.

Have you discussed the problem you mentioned with your wife?

I have but this hasn't been particularly fruitful. She agrees that she's a hoarder and that there's too much stuff in the house and we've agreed to sort/clear things but she works alot of night shifts and with one thing and another, it rarely gets done. But then again, I question whether any solution favourable to me would really just be treating symptoms. Lets say we won the lottery and could afford a full time cleaner and even a Feng shui consultant. My clutter program would still exist, we've just externally manipulated the situation whereby I never have to deal with the emotions and thus, it lies within, latent and ready to rear it's ugly head perhaps in a plethora of different contexts. Again, please let me know if I'm off off track here, I'm only just getting started with all this!

 

[cubbex]

I am conquered so easily, by whoever's sake!
Lately I have not study and read nothing because of bad influences as "friends", I think I have to cut contact.