What programs have YOU discovered?

[SolarMother]

Woah Keit. Stop pullin thoughts outta my head, thats weird!

Seriously thou, i know exactly how that feels.

Same here Keit! So beautifully put and helpful to the extreme--were your hands flying over the keyboards? ;)
But of course I am also thinking how I never could express this so eloquently. Perhaps saying this is the laziness you speak of which is a program in myself that I am slowly seeing more clearly lately. Also, I feel dog tired for a few days now, no energy level, depression. The task of discovering one's programs seems daunting right now.

 

[Gertrudes]

Interesting points here. I'm not sure it's the case that I'm intellectualizing my discomfort and deflecting my thoughts onto something else. Perhaps I'm deluding myself but to me, this specific aspect of the process is about trying to stop the mechanical thoughts in their tracks as they arise in the present tense moment. Rather than diverting thoughts as you put it, I rather see this as a process in which I attempt to perceive the situation in a more objective light rather than allow the genesis various programs to occur within me such as self pity, irritation, anger etc which are founded in a very distorted and illusory perception of the situation. i.e some clutter in my house.

Being as objective as I can as I write and reflect, the clutter in my house is not a huge problem. It can be tidied and my life is not so busy that I cannot practically deal with this minor inconvenience. What is a problem is my reaction to it and the emotions/programs that it provokes which are disproportionate to the actual 'problem' itself. Thus when these emotions arise I attempt to literally challenge them and place the 'problem' within a more objective context.

Thanks for clarifying further Pai.
The above makes much sense, contextualizing the problem so as to not make it disproportionate. I do think that you are in the right direction with that.

I think it is helpful to stop the program on its tracks as you are doing and observe the reactions it triggers so that you can build up to a different and consistent response as you have put it. But I also think that being affected by clutter is a natural valid response. Your environment is not yourself, but it has a strong connection.

I have certainly observed that I become more disturbed by clutter when I generally feel more 'out of my depth' or panicked in life. Whilst addressing the why I'm feeling panicked or out of my depth is paramount to being able to get the clutter program under control, I also feel that the technique of stopping the emotions which can be triggered and contextualising/rationalising them has been remarkably helpful: In a very practical sense, this particular clutter program seems to be far less prevalent and my emotional reaction to it seems to be reducing significantly.

Contextualizing as you mentioned is surely helpful, and its seems to be bringing good results. I'm not sure about rationalizing though. The reason why I'm mentioning this (and this could just be a simple misunderstanding of words) is that emotions are not to be rationalized but felt, and this dichotomy between feeling or rationalizing seems to be manifested when in previous posts you say that the house is really cluttered and that your wife is a hoarder, and on the following posts this doesn't seem to be such a problem. I'm not sure (literally not sure, trying to understand as much as yourself) of whether you are indeed in the process of tackling a program, or going through that dichotomy instead.

There are surely much bigger problems then clutter and it is important, as you said, to have a good sense of context.
Still, maybe you can also find a way of dealing with the emotional response it triggers plus dealing with the clutter itself? I understand what you said about not wanting to follow the need to manipulate external reality in an attempt to deal with your inner needs, however, I do find that as with everything context defines which which which, and in this case I think it is normal to have an emotional reaction to clutter you find in your own home. Which isn't to say feelings of self pity, entitlement and so on are also normal, these could well be feelings that got out of proportion due to having been deflected from its original rightful feeling source: perhaps a little bit of anger or frustration, a need for a clean space so as to enhance your mental hygiene, there are several possibilities. Perhaps you could set up a few rules with your wife, something simple and most of all achievable that you can implement?

You know, I only noticed now that I'm going through something very similar. In my case it is not so much in terms of clutter but in terms of things that need being done and sometimes don't get done.

 

[mic5]

A special program for me: i hope....
i hope he call me, i hope my brother do...., i hope my husband take care ..., i hope..., and the others usually guess what i want.... never!, then i angry. i hope the world lives as i want. i learned this through the woman in my family, when she said "look at what X has make me! and X, simply was doing other things. And the opposite, if you don'd make what i hope, you make something only to annoy me (because you knew what i wanted)

one i control only somentimes: is when i want to share a experience, and the other person says: bla bla, but me more!!! because bla bla bla bla me bla bla me bla bla me. (more or less). Or if i talk about something i have discover and he/she says: i do know, of course!!!! (brbrbrbr, ¿and why do you never told me? i'd like to say)

If someone is more always, i have no approval from the others.

I saw with Pilar Sordo, men and women have different programs, then i understand now why i got angry many times when i thought i was doing right.

Othe book helped me much with my roll of mother: "the indispensable woman". Behaviour programs in many litle things, if i do right, if i don't do..., if i feel, if not..

One i don't know control always: when someone is bad, help him. I thought i made well, but at least i only get this person told me his problems, once, twice,......, he/she only speak with me because i heard and i said "you can, look at you..."

some of my programs rule only when i am a particular "I", others rule with all my "I"

between my programs... (i'm afraid i have use it)... don't write here because "my english is so badly, i need google translate", or because " i have nothing new to contribute".

One i get pretty good is no to judge. To judge me and the others.

 

[obyvatel]

I have certainly observed that I become more disturbed by clutter when I generally feel more 'out of my depth' or panicked in life. Whilst addressing the why I'm feeling panicked or out of my depth is paramount to being able to get the clutter program under control, I also feel that the technique of stopping the emotions which can be triggered and contextualising/rationalising them has been remarkably helpful: In a very practical sense, this particular clutter program seems to be far less prevalent and my emotional reaction to it seems to be reducing significantly.

Contextualizing as you mentioned is surely helpful, and its seems to be bringing good results. I'm not sure about rationalizing though. The reason why I'm mentioning this (and this could just be a simple misunderstanding of words) is that emotions are not to be rationalized but felt, and this dichotomy between feeling or rationalizing seems to be manifested when in previous posts you say that the house is really cluttered and that your wife is a hoarder, and on the following posts this doesn't seem to be such a problem. I'm not sure (literally not sure, trying to understand as much as yourself) of whether you are indeed in the process of tackling a program, or going through that dichotomy instead.

Throwing something out there for consideration based on my personal experience - may be relevant or not.

Perception of clutter gives rise to discomfort - which could be a combination of body sensations and feelings. The natural or instinctive reaction is to address the perceived source of the discomfort - so "want to fix the clutter". But the mind comes in and says - "I am too tired/too busy/others created this mess - let them sort it out" etc. Maybe associated memories arise where previous attempts to fix the clutter ended in failure. Further, unrelated old incidents, which could have been related to the general theme of a sense of powerlessness to control one's environment, may arise too. The original discomfort which was triggered by the clutter in the "here and now" gets intensified. These other currents which cause the intensification of the original discomfort may not be consciously acknowledged. But the mind reacts to the increased intensity and steps in to put things in context - "it is not really that big a problem" - which could be objectively true in the "here and now". Mind continues with "focus on the positives" theme and perhaps some slight admonishment "you should not get so worked up about such a small thing". The discomfort level seems to reduce as a result.

In the above sequence, there could be other unacknowledged things (old associated memories - emotionally unresolved situations) involved which color the present perception of reality - clutter and associated discomfort. May be worth looking at.

fwiw

 

[know_yourself_1234]

"No right to rest"

This is really a bad one...

When I was a teenager, we have been to a camping in Italy with my family. That evening, father, mother, twin sister and I went to a restaurant, outside of the camping to eat pizza and pasta... Hmmm... Holidays...

Holidays were quite a relative "calm" period, in contrast with the rest of the year, taking the parental suffering on my back (...)

This evening, we sat at the restaurant, and a young waiter came by for our order. My mother eventually asked him what he was doing, if he was living here, etc... He told her, as far as I can remmeber, that this was a "holiday job" and that his town of origin was another one, not close to the see.

Then, my mother told me "See this brave guy... Why wouldn't you do like him? Wouldn't you do such kind of activity, so that you might enjoy sea at the end of your work..."

At that time, it was not usual for me to say "no, I do not think so, because..." to my parents.

She just smashed the concept of holidays, she rottened the only relaxing moments in the year... There were no issue now. No "place to be safe". That was it. This was the night the "evil" took hold of the last castle: holidays. Then, they would be no rest at all. Because outide holidays, my mother would be so preoccupied about "life is hard", etc...

What made me remember of this event is that soon after the waiter went out, I suddenly had a terrible headache, and eventually went back to the camping, alone, to sleep, and took my first pain killer. And this headache... It was not common. It is the same as today, when I work too hard when recovering memories. maybe this made averything come to my memory.

I was young, and terribly wounded by the behavior of my parents up to this day. This was the summum.

My mother instilled the concept of "working during holidays", and because of the "narcissic breach", I could not do anything else but "trust this concept". This went inside me, and up to today, I have never really allowed myself to "rest in peace".

The concept of "necessary relaxing" was then not allowed to myself. Until today (technichally yesterday, as I discovered this little rattle snake...). And today, I see that living the moment for what it is is good... For example even when walking outside to go to work might be only this: "walking outside". But I used to do all kind of intellectual things, trying to scan all the surroundings, explain everything, just because of "the need of doing something".

Today it is hard for me to go to sleep and just tell myself "okay, let me enjoy a good rest"..

I am lucky I did not die!

Worst of the worst? I eventually did a hotel school and today... I am a waiter

EDIT: A better name for this program might be "working during rest"

 

[cassandra]

I remember being told I had to find a summer job when I was about 16, and not responding very enthusiastically. I did understand that my mother found 8 weeks of summer holidays extremely expensive, however. It was also quite good for me, although I did not relish washing dishes and clearing tables at cafes.
Today we are asking the same of our daughter..find a summer job.
It sounds a little different in your case, as you equated working during your holidays with taking away your tranquility and feeling of safeness away from turmoil (well so did I but not quite to that extent). Perhaps your parents weren't very sensitive dealing with the issue to say the least.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

I'm passive-aggressive and have a superiority complex that hides an inferiority complex. Sometimes I use my teacher "I" with aggression to engage in both covert and overt manipulative "teaching" tactics that were designed for adolescents. My motherly "I" tends to want to over-feed others by means of "nurturing, protecting and teaching" so that I can be fed with feelings of love, self-worth, etc.

 

[Paradigma]

Finding no sense in life

Recognized the programm of seeing no meaning in life, being fed up with the struggle and just want to die or get out of the circle of life. This leads to some sort of laziness and low energy. I just want to do what feels nice.
This program in connection with

If I would have more time left, if I could go back in time

Lamenting about how little time is left and if I could go back in time I would do everything different and wouldn't waste so much time. But actually I'm not even using the time that is left over.

And then I found a program that prevents me from planing things or even my life. Perhaps this is also the reason why I find no meaning in life, because I have no vision for that?

Laziness is one of my major programs. But it is a "selective" laziness - I have trouble working on boring and "not fun" things (and delay it as much as possible) or maintaining the same drive while doing things which require constant pressure and effort, or doing things which are not part of my routine. And after reading the following post
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5732.msg40337#msg40337

The work of the emotional part requires full attention but in this part of the centre attention does not require any effort. It is attracted and held by the subject itself, very often through identification, which usually is called 'interest,' or 'enthusiasm,' or' passion,' or 'devotion'

The intellectual part of the intellectual centre includes in itself a capacity for creation, construction, invention and discovery. It cannot work without attention, but the attention in this part of the centre must be controlled and kept there by will and effort.

I understood that the real problem is lack of sufficient will - something that must be done with attention and effort. And while I have no problem doing something that belongs to mechanical or emotional part of intellectual center, I need to do real effort to concentrate on intellectual part of intellectual center.

Maybe that's why writing about something "from the heart" or while being externally considered and writing in the way others may benefit can be very exhausting. And that's why when you write about something that you like and it "burns" inside you just to spill it out, you feel like your fingers are "flying" while typing without any real effort. Not to mention instant messaging, which is probably completely mechanical :)
Apparently the key is conscious effort, be it intellectual or emotional (conscious suffering?) or of the moving center (necessary sport after sitting all day on the buttocks ;))

Unfortunately, in many cases (if not most) predator still "help" me to postpone the doing by inventing countless excuses and activating "I am useless anyway" programs. Well, something to work on :)

Really good explanation and suits quite well on my issue. Thank you :)

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

emotions are not to be rationalized but felt

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here but isn't the central goal of the work to identify and observe our emotions as they arise. This must surely involve a certain amount of 'rationalization', of being able to ascertain how, where and why such emotional reactions are arising in order that we can bring them under the mastery of the will?

this dichotomy between feeling or rationalizing seems to be manifested when in previous posts you say that the house is really cluttered and that your wife is a hoarder, and on the following posts this doesn't seem to be such a problem.

I don't really see this as a dichotomy. I'll try and explain the process: traditionally, I've always had a reaction to clutter, mechanical in the true sense of the word. i.e I see it, I automatically moan and a host of emotions/programs arise which are very negative in nature: self pity, irritation etc.

Since beginning to observe this inner state when it arises it's apparent that the amount of energy that is expended in reacting to the clutter is incommensurate in relation to the actual clutter itself. So it's not the case as you say 'that the clutter doesn't seem to be a problem'. Objectively the clutter is not a huge problem and the fact that it can potentially be the trigger of extreme mechanical reactions and intense feelings such as dejection and even persecution leads me to believe that the problem is not with the clutter but with my reactions to it.

I guess the important point here is that whilst this 'taking a step back' to look at some of the dynamics at play has helped me gain some perspective and thus quell some of the more extreme reactions to clutter, this is only a partial element of the work. In short, observing is not necessarily doing and What I really need to do is examine the actual genesis (which I don't believe to be clutter), the source of what is making me react in this way and have a strategy to tackle it. . I think this relates to what Obyvatel has highlighted.

... the mind comes in and says - "I am too tired/too busy/others created this mess - let them sort it out" etc. Maybe associated memories arise where previous attempts to fix the clutter ended in failure. Further, unrelated old incidents, which could have been related to the general theme of a sense of powerlessness to control one's environment, may arise too. The original discomfort which was triggered by the clutter in the "here and now" gets intensified.

I think this is very accurate actually and offers insights into the difference between 'The trigger' of certain emotions when reacting to clutter and the genesis, or rather the fundamental supporting program. In-fact, thinking about 'the general theme of a sense of powerlessness to control one's environment' there seems to be a direct correlation between my distress around physical clutter and a very prominent feeling that I've had for many years of wanting to 'fix myself' or tidy myself up completely.

And this is the crux of the matter here, completion . When faced with a messy house, I will always compulsively feel that I have to do the job in its entirety and internally, I usually cannot relax until it's all done. Similarly, in my personal struggles I've always felt that I need to fix myself completely, otherwise beginning the work or having partial successes are not worthy or valid. In the latter case I've simply not started or have given up very early on any work on myself as I become completely daunted by the size of the struggle ahead. As with clutter in my physical surroundings, The failure to 'Do' in the sense of The Work always seems to derive from a disposition of perfectionism. In the latter sense, perhaps this is simply narcissism. The job to 'fix myself' in its entirety looks too daunting and perhaps it's my own narcissism and the desire for recognition/greatness etc that prevents me from tackling small steps and as Gertrudes has mentioned, 'winning battles' as opposed to wars. Much to think about here I feel.......

 

[Gertrudes]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you here but isn't the central goal of the work to identify and observe our emotions as they arise. This must surely involve a certain amount of 'rationalization', of being able to ascertain how, where and why such emotional reactions are arising in order that we can bring them under the mastery of the will?

Oh, I see what you mean, yes I agree.
I understood rationalizing in this context as transforming an emotion into a thought, something that many of us do unconsciously to try to run away from the emotion, instead of acknowledging an emotion and trying to understand it. I think you meant the latter.

Since beginning to observe this inner state when it arises it's apparent that the amount of energy that is expended in reacting to the clutter is incommensurate in relation to the actual clutter itself. So it's not the case as you say 'that the clutter doesn't seem to be a problem'. Objectively the clutter is not a huge problem and the fact that it can potentially be the trigger of extreme mechanical reactions and intense feelings such as dejection and even persecution leads me to believe that the problem is not with the clutter but with my reactions to it.

Makes sense, I understand better what you meant. I think this would also relate to what I said about the feelings you have now getting out of proportion for having been deflected from its original feeling source (past situations that would have caused it), sorry that that probably wasn't very clear. Obyvatel put it well here:

In the above sequence, there could be other unacknowledged things (old associated memories - emotionally unresolved situations) involved which color the present perception of reality - clutter and associated discomfort. May be worth looking at.

there seems to be a direct correlation between my distress around physical clutter and a very prominent feeling that I've had for many years of wanting to 'fix myself' or tidy myself up completely.

And this is the crux of the matter here, completion .
(...)
The failure to 'Do' in the sense of The Work always seems to derive from a disposition of perfectionism.

These seem to be good observations to me. Personally, I have a perfectionist program and I can well understand how that can relate to a need to "complete", "fix", "or in my case have the "perfect" external environment.

Thanks for having explained further Pai, that was helpful :)

 

[mabar]

This morning I somehow identify a program that bind to the predator and between thoughts bind with another program and the predator again. So I want to write it down …perhaps those thoughts will stay behind for a while because they kept coming in between on my tasks at work.

This morning after getting out of home and going to work an axiety-predator did its work?... I always check windows, doors, stove are closed/off before I get out –I check it with a check list for the mean time until I don't need it (-in a non distant future I hope).

While being in the bus, -although I try to concentrate at the reading (Molecules of Emotion by Candance Pert) anxiety thoughts came in between lines, an argument within myself if I did turn it off or I did closed the window, did I ….arhg!! I hadn't had those thoughts for a while… I came to the realization that the coming of my parents was “modifying” my mental state, (they arrived today at night, they lived in another city) and I began wondering the relationship of my parents near to me and this anxiety, although I had not come to a conclusion yet, I felt calmer knowing that I may have a better understanding from where this kind of anxiety comes from.

Contradictory thoughts arisen, such like: I feel happy they are coming because I miss them and they do not come too often :) … they are coming!! :O and I need to be alert from whatever program and later the predator may appear and I feel anxious (I had been observing that certain behaviors came in automatic being near them).

This week I had been thinking/living? with a program and its predator. This program-preadotor arose last week regarding bread. Efforts and struggles are not valid if the result is the same. I do still eat bread –not much as in the past-, but I still do (the result) as many things I had done in the past, being difficult or with too much struggle the result is not enough or is the standard (the one parents, society expects) mmm… the difference with this program is the feeling, I feel sad …

Surely it is connected from the one above …

Thanks for reading.

 

[abeofarrell]

I have recently picked up on several main programs running at specific times/ in specific situations.

1. "Dad knows best" My father went to the Vietnam war and came back with depression among other things. As a result he was a very angry man. He never used physical violence, but was always storming around the house, usually with no clear reason. When I feel stressed, particularly in relationships with people, then this program activates, storming, shouting, raising my voice and getting angry at others. Of course this is just projection. Internal problems seem unsurpassable so instead energy is directed outwardly at others.

2. "Bully victim" During my compulsory school years I was bullied a lot. Now when somebody exhibits bullying behaviour then this program puts me on the defensive, usually again leading to anger or at least to a MACHO stance. This also causes an unwillingness to reveal weaknesses or lack of knowledge, thus leading to arrogance and opinionated behavior.

3. "Intellectual" In almost every situation my mental center tries to take over, rationalizing away emotional content. This stops me from dealing with things emotional. This is a major buffer for me, maybe it is my MAIN AREA that needs to change. I am most concerned about this as it stops learning through the emotional center and lessens necessary shocks. Instead of feeling truth with my whole being I quickly analyze the situation, compartmentalizing and labeling all elements. This program also interferes with the objectivity of my self-observation. I find it difficult to look at it as a program as it insists that it is the real "I".

 

[cubbex]

I am dealing with old programs. Gonna list them as some of you.

Antagonist- I just like to be the black sheep, or lone wolf. :/ But come on, I am more like a little pinky bunny.
Freedom- I am doing good at this, in past when some authority for example tried to do the best for me, I thought I was being controlled. Then when things didn't happen as I wanted I got a little angry and agressive. But I am being more intelligent and in control of my impulsive acts.
Pride - I'm convinced this thing is stopping me to see things clearly. Combined with those before this one I always feel like weak and defeated. Villain stereotype from a movie, choose one.

 

[DianaRose]

Hey!!

Fist time posting in this thread.
So, I've discovered some of my different I's.
There is the I, who can't trust, he sees everyone as enemy. He is in a me agaisnt the world state of mind. He doesn't believe that anyone could accept him or understand him.

I, who is fearful, he is scared of everyone and everything, he think the world is a dangerous place. And he feels he is too weak and too worthless to survive in this world.
He get stressed very easily, because he doesn't believe that he can accomplish much, so when there is a task to accomplish he think he will fail. He doesn't belive in himself and he is shameful.
He is also afraid of suffering, he wants to get away from it, he doesn't believe that he could overcome it as he think he is weak.

I, who is narcissistic/full of importance, he thinks only about what he wants, what he needs, what he likes, there is only him in his head. He always want more, it is never enough for him. He doesn't want to lose his own self image nor the image that he thinks other have of him.
If necessary, he will become someone else, because he wants to look good in other people eyes. This I is also quite insecure, this is why he need someone to approve him so badly.

I, who is a dreamer and attention seeker, He daydream about glory and beauty. He wants to be the one who is in the center of attention, the one who resolve problems, the one who is acclaimed, the one that everyone love and admire.
But deep down he know that this is more wishful thinking than anything and he knows it. (This I is almost not there anymore)

There is something else, I'm not able to love, I'm empty. All I can is feed on someone but this is not like I love them. Even for my familly, I don't love them. My father loves me, I know he would do anything for me but I don't love him, I feed on him ( well far less now that I'm aware of it). Same for my sister, she loves me but I don't love her, I used to feed on her.
When I was down, she could lift me up, or she could buy me things or at time she listened to me...etc. But what I felt for her wasn't love, at most I cared for her as I care for my father but I don't love them.
I would admit that there is noone that I have ever love.

Also I have remarked that I can't show affection to children ( I used to not be able to show affection to people in general except with my sister), I don't even know how to act with them. Great example is with my cousins who are 11, 6 and 5, I pretty much feel imcomfortable with them. I know that part of it is because first I don't like to be in a position where I have to play the big sister and second when I have to act more childlike, I feel completely ridiculous.

But I realized recently that I'm pretty much a copy of my mother, in regards to many aspects, most of the programs I have, I can find it in her but in a stronger version. She herself can't love either, she isn't able to show affection either, she is extremely narcissistic ( even more than I). I would say the two big differences between the two of us is that I actually wish to change and grow, she doesn't and I can care about people, she can't.
I know this is quite big to say that I can care about people and she can't, I know that I can be oustrageously sel-centered too, heck that I can and I don't think I'm able to love but I know I can care. My mother, she is different, it can look like she cares but it's false, not only with people in general but even with her own children.

 

[cubbex]

There is something else, I'm not able to love, I'm empty. All I can is feed on someone but this is not like I love them. Even for my familly, I don't love them. My father loves me, I know he would do anything for me but I don't love him, I feed on him ( well far less now that I'm aware of it). Same for my sister, she loves me but I don't love her, I used to feed on her.
When I was down, she could lift me up, or she could buy me things or at time she listened to me...etc. But what I felt for her wasn't love, at most I cared for her as I care for my father but I don't love them.
I would admit that there is noone that I have ever love.

Also I have remarked that I can't show affection to children ( I used to not be able to show affection to people in general except with my sister), I don't even know how to act with them. Great example is with my cousins who are 11, 6 and 5, I pretty much feel imcomfortable with them. I know that part of it is because first I don't like to be in a position where I have to play the big sister and second when I have to act more childlike, I feel completely ridiculous.

Uhoo I lived this before. Isn't this a petrificated heart center? because well, I belive this was the case, and it was really confusing and a big step, because I realized my artificial feelings towards others, and realized that the ones I really love are those who deserve it, it doesn't care what you are, you have to deserve my appreciation. Then because of this I asked what love is, a real love, not what is teached, there are great threads about it here, and I really recommend to read this sott article:
_http://www.sott.net/articles/show/229797-All-you-need-is-Love-
When I became aware of what love is or the manifestation of it (more or less I think so), the sott article was published. Maybe working on that will help you on the other programs.