Crash of German Wings Flight over French Alps

[Alana]

Tragic coincidence?

Germanwings flight 4U9525 crashed less than a MILE from near identical air disaster more than 60 years ago when 44 were killed

The Germanwings flight that crashed in the French Alps came down less than a mile from an almost identical air disaster more than 60 years ago when 44 people were killed.

The fate of the Airbus A320, which appeared to drop out of the sky yesterday over the village of Barcelonette, appears to mirror that of Air France flight 178 which crashed close by in 1953.
The aircraft, a Lockheed L-749A Constellation, was coming into land at Nice airport, when it crashed into the side of Mont Le Cimet, close to Barcelonette.

According to accident investigators at the time, the service was en-route to Saigon, now Ho Chi Minh City, from Paris with stops in Nice, Lebanon, Iraq, Pakistan and India.

However, the plane encountered stormy weather over the French Alps with residents in the small village of Fours St. Laurent reporting seeing the aircraft crash into the mountainside and burst into flames.

When rescue teams reached the scene the next day, there were no survivors, with all 35 passengers and nine crew members killed.

Among those that died was French violinist Jacques Thibaud.

Investigators then put the cause of the crash was down to 'controlled flight into terrain'.

This means that an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, water, or an obstacle, with the pilots generally unaware of the danger until it is too late.

Yesterday's crash in almost the exact same spot, all 144 passengers, including six crew members were killed on the flight en route from Barcelona to Dusseldorf.

The majority of the passengers were Spanish and German with 16 children from the same school in Haltern near Dusseldorf losing their lives.

It has been claimed that the doomed Germanwings plane may have crashed because the windscreen cracked, causing a sudden drop in oxygen that rendered the pilots unconscious.
Reports circulating on professional pilot forums suggested the black box on the Airbus A320 had been analysed and revealed that a 'structural failure' was responsible for the disaster.

It is thought the windscreen gave way, incapacitating the pilots and leaving them unable to send out a distress call.

Today, search operations resumed at first light this morning in near-freezing conditions for debris and bodies at the crash site.

Reports revealed the aircraft had suffered technical issues, including a landing gear problem, a day before it was due to fly from Barcelona to Dusseldorf.

Urgent safety checks are now being carried out on other A320s - popular with budget airlines - while passengers were left stranded at Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester yesterday after several Germanwings crews refused to work over safety fears..

 

[sitting]

This morning a pilot was interviwed on the radio (RFI) and he said that something was strange:

Hi Ellipse,

Is there a link to that interview? Thanks.

 

[Ellipse]

This morning a pilot was interviwed on the radio (RFI) and he said that something was strange:

Hi Ellipse,

Is there a link to that interview? Thanks.

Do you believe me if I say you that the journal (an only this one) containing the interview is not on the site!!?? This is the journal of yesterday...
http://www.rfi.fr/rfi_news/

 

[Ellipse]

I just red this interesting comment on the web :

Most likely in my opinion would be an explosion of the wind-screen in the cockpit with depressurization and pilots fast fainting. It is an illusion to think that it is easy to put oxygen masks if chaos reigns in the cockpit.
And lowering of which would be the reflex action of the pilots just before fainting ...

A meteorite?

 

[Joe]

wouldn't the disturbance of electromagnetic frequency entail that the plane stalled, which would make for a faster descent than 8 long minutes? Wouldn't it crash the radio signal, too?

Not sure about the descent. At high altitude a plane can fly for a long distance without engine power. If all electrics were fried I'm not sure if there is any control over ailerons and flaps, but with these the pilot could glide maybe 180kms. If there is no control over ailerons and flaps, then the plane would probably descend more rapidly and irregularly.

Also, there was no radio signal. That is one of the problems with the case. The complete lack of any transmissions from the plane during those 8 minutes.

 

[sitting]

Do you believe me if I say you that the journal (an only this one) containing the interview is not on the site!!?? This is the journal of yesterday...

I take it you mean they had it initially, then made it disappear.

A shame -- because first initial reactions and comments (however disjointed) are sometimes the best truth indicators.

 

[Joe]

Even more mysterious, they are now saying:

Evidence emerged today that the unexplained, gradual dive to destruction of Germanwings Flight 9525 took at least 18 minutes, not eight.

The French environment and transport minister, Ségolène Royal, said that the crew of the Airbus A320 had stopped responding on radio at 10.30am yesterday when the aircraft was over the Mediterranean.

The aircraft slammed into the sheer side of a mountain in the French Alps soon after 10.48am. For those 18 minutes, it gradually shed height from 28,000 feet to less than 2,000 feet without transmitting any form of distress signal.

Ms Royal said that events in the cockpit of the plane “between 10.30am and 10.31am” were “crucial” and may hold the “key” to the mystery of the air disaster which killed 150 people.

 

[dantem]

There is a quite techy article on EMP pulses here, and its 3 sub-components: E1, E2, E3. Maybe it can be of help to those who can read into the details of these EM effects? Found while googleing: 'emp duration on electrical equipment'.

_http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1549/1

I first briefly describe the source of the various types of electromagnetic pulses that are the sub-components of what is generically termed “EMP”: E1, E2 and E3. To properly assess the effects of EMP on electric power systems, appropriate specifications of these E1, E2, and E3 sub-components are vital.

[...]

The even lower-amplitude—but longer-lasting—E3 EMP pulse comes about as a result of the ionized explosive fireball expanding and “expelling” the earth’s magnetic field (due to the fact that it is an electrically-conductive region), in a “heaving” action. For this reason, it is also known as the Magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) pulse. This pulse can last up to 1,000 seconds or longer and has with a frequency of less than 1 Hertz.

Directly under the burst point, a temporary layer of ionized air is created by the atmospheric absorption of X-rays produced by the weapon. This region tends to shield the area under the burst for the “early” portion of the MHD-EMP signal. As time progresses, however, the hot ionized air under the burst begins to rise and move across the earth’s geomagnetic field lines causing large atmospheric currents to flow. These ionospheric currents likely account for the second phase (>10 sec) of the MHD-EMP signal. [8]

Lastly, the auroral motion of charged particles from the detonation, spiraling along the earth’s magnetic field between conjugate points in opposite hemispheres, results in a final EMP at extremely low frequencies, typically 0.01 Hertz. The E3 (and Auroral) EMP is the most similar to that associated with natural geomagnetic storms, and is the one that most directly threatens long-line power delivery systems [9]. The E3 pulse is low frequency pulse which, unlike the high frequency E1 and E2 pulses, can penetrate the ground, where it can induce substantial electric currents in very long (over 100 kilometers long) buried cables.

[...]
The different types of EMP—E1, E2, and E3—couple in different ways to the various types of electrical systems.
[...]
For the operation of the electric power grid, the… E1 and E3 pulses are the most important. Research performed for the EMP Commission clearly indicates the following concerns:
1) Malfunctions and damage to solid-state relays in electric substations (E1)
2) Malfunctions and damage to computer controls in power generation facilities, substations, and control centers (E1)
3) Malfunctions and damage to power system communications (E1)
4) Flashover and damage to distribution class insulators (E1)
5) Voltage collapse of the power grid due to transformer saturation (E3)
6) Damage to [High Voltage] HV and [Extremely High Voltage] EHV transformers due to internal heating (E3)

 

[naorma]

I just red this interesting comment on the web :

Most likely in my opinion would be an explosion of the wind-screen in the cockpit with depressurization and pilots fast fainting. It is an illusion to think that it is easy to put oxygen masks if chaos reigns in the cockpit.
And lowering of which would be the reflex action of the pilots just before fainting ...

A meteorite?

There is a link to Spiegel online - they point to the same conclusion - but it only is part of the problem, I guess. I am sorry, it is in German.

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/germanwings-a320-absturz-in-suedfrankreich-war-druckverlust-schuld-a-1025501.html

Of course they do not talk about a meteorite.

 

[Bobo08]

They said the cockpit voice recorder indicated one of the pilots had been locked out of the cockpit before the crash:

_http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona, Spain, to Düsseldorf, Germany. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door, and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger, and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
[snip]

The French aviation authorities have made public very little, officially, about the nature of the information that has been recovered from the audio recording, and it was not clear whether it was complete. France’s Bureau of Investigations and Analyses confirmed only that human voices and other cockpit sounds had been detected and would be subjected to detailed analysis.

 

[Jeremy F Kreuz]

Quote from: Jeremy F Kreuz on Yesterday at 01:51:05 PM

I dont know how to include the picture - but in any case it is NOT a picture of a black box, it is a picture of the cockpit voice recorder - see wikipedia for the difference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder


I don't see the problem. On the Wikipedia page you sent, the photo is labelled "Both side views of a cockpit voice recorder, one type of flight recorder".

My point was the media gave a picture of the voice recorder, registrering the conversations of the pilots - which is different then the black box, which records the flight data. So IMO there is a difference, the media is giving a picture of a voice recorder and say it is they black box. The media say they have recovered the black box, which may be the case, but picture the voice recorder. It might be a case of confusion, but to me it sounds suspicious. They might have the real black box, but not telling what is on it.

 

[Dirgni]

It is reported in the news that only one pilot was in the cockpit. The other left and was no able to return because he was locked out. When he returned the other pilot did not open the door, whatever this means.

_http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/one-pilot-locked-out-germanwings-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times
_http://qz.com/370372/one-germanwings-pilot-was-reportedly-locked-out-of-the-cockpit-before-this-weeks-fatal-crash/
_http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html

 

[loreta]

wouldn't the disturbance of electromagnetic frequency entail that the plane stalled, which would make for a faster descent than 8 long minutes? Wouldn't it crash the radio signal, too?

Not sure about the descent. At high altitude a plane can fly for a long distance without engine power. If all electrics were fried I'm not sure if there is any control over ailerons and flaps, but with these the pilot could glide maybe 180kms. If there is no control over ailerons and flaps, then the plane would probably descend more rapidly and irregularly.

Also, there was no radio signal. That is one of the problems with the case. The complete lack of any transmissions from the plane during those 8 minutes.

We assume there was no contact. Maybe yes, maybe not. That's what they tell us. Is it true what they tell us?

We know how all the mainstream media all receive orders from up to tell us what happens, they have all the same pattern. What is curious in this accident is that they 1. they affirmed from the beginning (even the Obama administration!) that it was discarded the terrorist attack. 2. And then also they insist that it is a "very strange" accident. How many times I hear from the reporters how strange was this accident. It is like the mantra when the Charlie Hebdo, the known amalgam.

Maybe it was a meteoroid, maybe a missile, maybe something else. But why this insistence? Why the medias, the mainstream medias, don't stop to tell us that it is a very strange accident?

(But now also they insinuating that there is maybe the possibility of a bomb. And I will not be surprise it is Putin who put it in the airplane. )


Late: I just hear in RFI that there are two theories, after listening the black box: the first one: the co-pilot, that was alone in the cabin, had an heart attack. The second one: the co-pilot commit suicide.

 

[Plume]

Most likely in my opinion would be an explosion of the wind-screen in the cockpit with depressurization and pilots fast fainting. It is an illusion to think that it is easy to put oxygen masks if chaos reigns in the cockpit.
And lowering of which would be the reflex action of the pilots just before fainting ...

In case of depressurization, oxygen masks fall automatically. I work on an airport and it often happens that a plane lands with masks out because of slight depressuriztion problem without consequence. Notice that in this case an alert is sent to air traffic control.
If it was not done it means pilots were unable to do it. It may be due to a technical problem with masks in the cokpit.

 

[casper]

Quote from the newspaper:



'The pilot's sabotage plausible explanation accident'



To be a pilot in the cabin to anyone prevented entry into it has to be conscious.

In the training video that was released last year on YouTube, which is prepared by Airbus, demonstrated that pilots can provide cockpit that no one else can enter.

Five and a half minutes long clip explains the mechanisms that ensure the safe operation of the aircraft and crew as they can 'override' if the pilots lose consciousness. However, the mechanism allows the pilot or copilot to block the entry of colleagues from the example of caution.

Security measures at Airbus, which exist in other aircraft manufacturers, are believed to have contributed to the fall flight Germanwings 4U 9525 in the French Alps on Tuesday.

The first unofficial information: It broke a window on the table, and for a few seconds occurred decompression

The unnamed military source told the New York Times as sound recordings from the cockpit reveal that one of the pilots at the time of the fall was outside the cab. The cockpit was locked and could not return to her. Details on these allegations HERE.

The pilot's sabotage convincing explanation for the accident aircraft Germanwings, says News.com.au.

Australian aviation expert Ron Bartsch says a scenario that offered recordings plausible explanation for the decline in the absence of sending the distress call from the pilot. He added that it is not unusual that one of the pilots take a break to go to the toilet and briefly leave the cab.

'We know that he is not informed' mayday 'call from the plane, which could be explained by a scenario that suggests a deliberate act of one of the pilots, "he said.
Only conscious person can keep others from entering the cabin

He also explained that the A320 cockpit designed so that only conscious person can prevent others from entering, or keep them out of the cab. Namely, when the pilot is unconscious crew can be used in an emergency to enter the cabin. If the pilot wants to keep the door locked cockpit can override the emergency code, but to get it done must, of course, be conscious.

American aviation expert John Cox explained however that there is no mechanism by which the distress call can be sent out of the cockpit. 'Mayday' call can be sent only from the cockpit.
Changing the policy?

In the US, another crew member must take the pilot's seat when he leaves the cabin in order to go to the toilet.

But that is not the case in most other countries, including European. It is possible that this policy is because of these accidents change, if confirmed PIRC the locked pilot.

Airbus A320: The victims and the couple who got married four days ago days

French authorities investigating the incident have not yet responded to these allegations, and Germanwings has yet to publish the names of pilots who ran the plane in which the fall, killing 150 people.