Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

[RyanX]

I have followed this thread and have to say I find the whole thing completely bizarre. When I initially opened the thread there were no replies and was shocked to see what I was seeing, remembering the 'knowledge and Being' Video and Laura talking about making years of board notes, the dangers of being led astray and potentially deceived with such an experiment etc.

If you consider that Ljubica actually translated the whole transcript of Knowledge and Being Video (which presumes that she has fully understood it and absorbed it) this turn of events is even more mind boggling.
<snip>

It just goes to show how easy it is for someone to take an idea and completely twist it into knots based on our own biases, programs and other subjective thinking - and I don't think Ljubica is an exception either. I think we all do this to one degree or another. That's why asking for clarity, advise, feedback from the network is so important when it comes to considering any major undertaking. It is SO easy for any one of us to get lost in our own little worlds thinking that we know how to think about the way we think with the way we think.

It is very sad the way this has all gone down, but they have ultimately made their choice and will have to live with it.

 

[jhonny]

I spent almost 2 hours reading this threat and I wonder why people who has belong to this forum for about 2 years, who has read Laur'a work, C's transcriptions, books recommended in the forum, who teaches the EE program etc, can change so? It is really weird... perhaps external influences...a case of narcissism

 

[ocean59]

I guess it is time for forum members to unfriend them on FB and pass the word on.

I was wondering, should Ljubica's husband Zoran also be included? I didn't see any mention of him in the other posts about this matter.

 

[Breton]

Because I often see people in this thread repeating this kind of sentiment like:

...I wonder why people who has belong to this forum for about 2 years, who has read Laur'a work, C's transcriptions, books recommended in the forum, who teaches the EE program etc, can change so? ...

I think it would be good for many of you to re-read Laura's reply #173 in this thread because it happened in Gurdjieff's time. Also remember that it is made the worse when there is more than one person involved who then support each other in their weaknesses, in their illusion. They will not be able to come back as a pair, (or as trio in this case) but only singly. In that sense this occurrence is nothing new, and not that remarkable, but rather something just to be expected.

FWIW.

 

[dannybananny]

I spent almost 2 hours reading this threat and I wonder why people who has belong to this forum for about 2 years, who has read Laur'a work, C's transcriptions, books recommended in the forum, who teaches the EE program etc, can change so? It is really weird... perhaps external influences...a case of narcissism

It is because the knowledge isn't on the same level as being, more knowledge, more power, more power - people become more corruptible if ego isn't controlled enough, feeling maybe somehow special or chosen and wanting to utilize it for personal gain, and there's one saying: if you can't be first in the world, you can be first in the village. Dark side can become tempting and twist your brain.

 

[Laura]

Because I often see people in this thread repeating this kind of sentiment like:

...I wonder why people who has belong to this forum for about 2 years, who has read Laur'a work, C's transcriptions, books recommended in the forum, who teaches the EE program etc, can change so? ...

I think it would be good for many of you to re-read Laura's reply #173 in this thread because it happened in Gurdjieff's time. Also remember that it is made the worse when there is more than one person involved who then support each other in their weaknesses, in their illusion. They will not be able to come back as a pair, (or as trio in this case) but only singly. In that sense this occurrence is nothing new, and not that remarkable, but rather something just to be expected.

FWIW.

Yes, it's not that uncommon. The main problem is that two people with still strong false personalities/ egos (see Gurdjieff and Dabrowski for understanding what this means) will get together and one or both of them will have a blow to the ego. So they start talking to each other instead of to the network and end up calming each other, telling each other that "we did nothing wrong, all those other people just don't understand... we are speshul and different... the rules don't apply to us."

And down they go. Each of them giving the other the worst thing possible: lies.

This is one of the reasons we discourage private interactions either on the forum or IRL. Until a person has more or less grown their essence so that it is bigger and stronger than the false personality, they aren't strong enough to do what is right even for themselves. They come here to learn and then forget that is why they came... they forget that they were unable to think, to be sincere, to even handle their basic lives and relationships. They forget that the main problem with their lives was that their thinking was skewed and they kept screwing up. And now, all of a sudden, they think they can think with the same old way of thinking and worse, they encourage each other. I mean "here's someone else who is telling me I can now think and make good decisions, so it must be true!"

And off they go on another round of painful failure to come.

So it is. It is sad, but there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Breo]

The situation caused me to recall this:
"It often happens that, having stopped before some barrier, usually the smallest and the most simple, people turn against the work, against the teacher, and against other members of the group, and accuse them of the very thing that is becoming revealed to them in themselves.
"Sometimes they repent later and blame themselves, then they again blame others, then they repent once more, and so on. But there is nothing that shows up a man better than his attitude towards the work and the teacher after he has left it... A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show." - Gurdjieff from ISOTM pgs 228-229

I second that very much and Gurdjieff emphasized:

In the work the teacher of the work cannot be deceived.

Dreaming to be awake is such a temptation. The whole incident (thread) is a big reminder/lesson for me of all the multifaceted traps along the way. Even such a powerfull tool as doing EE and the POTS can be misused. For someone who forgets selfremembering, its protective power will be lost instantly or gradually.

A dialogue from the Matrix movie comes into my mind:

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

 

[istina]

Yes, it's not that uncommon. The main problem is that two people with still strong false personalities/ egos (see Gurdjieff and Dabrowski for understanding what this means) will get together and one or both of them will have a blow to the ego. So they start talking to each other instead of to the network and end up calming each other, telling each other that "we did nothing wrong, all those other people just don't understand... we are speshul and different... the rules don't apply to us."

And down they go. Each of them giving the other the worst thing possible: lies.

This is one of the reasons we discourage private interactions either on the forum or IRL. Until a person has more or less grown their essence so that it is bigger and stronger than the false personality, they aren't strong enough to do what is right even for themselves. They come here to learn and then forget that is why they came... they forget that they were unable to think, to be sincere, to even handle their basic lives and relationships. They forget that the main problem with their lives was that their thinking was skewed and they kept screwing up. And now, all of a sudden, they think they can think with the same old way of thinking and worse, they encourage each other. I mean "here's someone else who is telling me I can now think and make good decisions, so it must be true!"

And off they go on another round of painful failure to come.

So it is. It is sad, but there is nothing you can do about it.

That is so true and so painfully sad. Literally made ​​me sick these days.

 

[Navigator]

Because I often see people in this thread repeating this kind of sentiment like:

...I wonder why people who has belong to this forum for about 2 years, who has read Laur'a work, C's transcriptions, books recommended in the forum, who teaches the EE program etc, can change so? ...

I think it would be good for many of you to re-read Laura's reply #173 in this thread because it happened in Gurdjieff's time. Also remember that it is made the worse when there is more than one person involved who then support each other in their weaknesses, in their illusion. They will not be able to come back as a pair, (or as trio in this case) but only singly. In that sense this occurrence is nothing new, and not that remarkable, but rather something just to be expected.

FWIW.

Yes, it's not that uncommon. The main problem is that two people with still strong false personalities/ egos (see Gurdjieff and Dabrowski for understanding what this means) will get together and one or both of them will have a blow to the ego. So they start talking to each other instead of to the network and end up calming each other, telling each other that "we did nothing wrong, all those other people just don't understand... we are speshul and different... the rules don't apply to us."

And down they go. Each of them giving the other the worst thing possible: lies.

This is one of the reasons we discourage private interactions either on the forum or IRL. Until a person has more or less grown their essence so that it is bigger and stronger than the false personality, they aren't strong enough to do what is right even for themselves. They come here to learn and then forget that is why they came... they forget that they were unable to think, to be sincere, to even handle their basic lives and relationships. They forget that the main problem with their lives was that their thinking was skewed and they kept screwing up. And now, all of a sudden, they think they can think with the same old way of thinking and worse, they encourage each other. I mean "here's someone else who is telling me I can now think and make good decisions, so it must be true!"

And off they go on another round of painful failure to come.

So it is. It is sad, but there is nothing you can do about it.

This sums it up pretty well for me. His ego was just having a field day, perhaps due to the success as an EE teacher?

 

[caballero reyes]

Hi, jhonny. You wonder why people of the forum did that kind of things. It's not that uncommon, like Laura wrote. Anton Chejov the russian writer explain it very well in a short story:"The light that comes out through the window can't enlighten all the garden".

 

[tom32071]

I unfriended them, also Ljubica's husband.

 

[Lycan]

Well this is not the things go like this around here. To tell the truth I'm new into this matter. Was on vacation when all this thing escalated. Yes Sasa and Ljubica are my FB friends, didn't erase them, neither I will since I'm not Laura, neither I have experience she has to say anything further into this mater. All I know is that I can't buy that "we wanted to show how channeling shouldn't be done" even they know that road to hell is pawned with good intentions. I don't like what they did and their justification of the mater but as I said, I lack Laura's expertise on this thing and all I can offer is my personal opinion.

 

[Joe]

Well this is not the things go like this around here. To tell the truth I'm new into this matter. Was on vacation when all this thing escalated. Yes Sasa and Ljubica are my FB friends, didn't erase them, neither I will since I'm not Laura, neither I have experience she has to say anything further into this mater. All I know is that I can't buy that "we wanted to show how channeling shouldn't be done" even they know that road to hell is pawned with good intentions. I don't like what they did and their justification of the mater but as I said, I lack Laura's expertise on this thing and all I can offer is my personal opinion.

You don't need 'expertise' to make a simple decision of whether or not to unfriend them on FB. You understand the matter well enough, you have your personal opinion (above), you should be able make your own decision based on that, and you have, you have decided that their behavior is respectable enough to remain 'friends' with them on FB.

 

[Denis]

Well this is not the things go like this around here. To tell the truth I'm new into this matter. Was on vacation when all this thing escalated. Yes Sasa and Ljubica are my FB friends, didn't erase them, neither I will since I'm not Laura, neither I have experience she has to say anything further into this mater. All I know is that I can't buy that "we wanted to show how channeling shouldn't be done" even they know that road to hell is pawned with good intentions. I don't like what they did and their justification of the mater but as I said, I lack Laura's expertise on this thing and all I can offer is my personal opinion.

You don't need 'expertise' to make a simple decision of whether or not to unfriend them on FB. You understand the matter well enough, you have your personal opinion (above), you should be able make your own decision based on that, and you have, you have decided that their behavior is respectable enough to remain 'friends' with them on FB.

I believe that with saying "Laura's expertise" Lycan meant experience and knowledge in using the ouija board and the esoteric work in general that Laura has acquired and accumulated over many years of dedicated research. As for his decision not to unfriend Ljubica and Saša on FB, I won't say anything about this since it's none of my business. My personal opinion is that he has the right to decide for himself what to do on this matter.

 

[anart]

My personal opinion is that he has the right to decide for himself what to do on this matter.

No one has suggested any differently.