Gulags in China?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
A great thread that brought to light a lot of my internal Western biases towards China. On the whole, I was very much in agreement with Woodsman and others at the beginning of the thread. And still think there are valid concerns as to where this is all headed. But having gone through all the articles and videos posted, especially thanks to @seek10 for posting the link to the documentary on the recent history of China which I found fascinating and helped to understand the recent history with the Communist Party and how they have operated since the days of Chiang and Mao. I don't see them as this bastion of hope for the future, although they do offer that counter-balance to keep the West in check, but they are flawed in a number of ways just like in the West.
I've had pretty much the same experience, an opening of my awareness. Always been puzzled by my prejudice, having grown up in Canada surrounded with only white folks. Maybe some genetic component, some of my experiences living in San Francisco and here in the lower mainland, but also perhaps the seeping in of propaganda that I was not aware of. Thank you everyone for a very eye-opening thread!


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Could the area in which the Uighur live be characterized as Central Asia? It makes me think of Session 10 February 2018
A: That should be obvious by now. The objective, as we have said, was/is to eliminate true Semites from the gene pool.

Q: (L) Well... The question I have - and I'm not sure that I ever really asked it in such a direct way, or if it was ever really answered - is: What is a Semite?

A: Central Asian genetic type formed from two main lines.

Q: (Chu) Which lines?

A: Kantekkian and Homo Sapiens.

Q: (Artemis) Didn't they say that Kantekkians were the ones most filled with light and superpowered energies inside them?

A: Yes

Q: (Artemis) So they want to get rid of superpowered energy?

A: Yes
Central Asia, would that include Kazakhstan and surrounding areas? I came to think of this, as I was reading an interview with an ethnic Kazakh, Sayragul Sauytbay that lived in Western China. The topic of the article is her experience of the difficult lives of Uighurs and Kazakh people in Western China who do not fit in with the present industrial and economic developments. On the surface they are Muslims and have a different culture than the dominant Han Chinese?

Below is a translation of the article from a Danish news site. I have corrected and edited a machine translation to make it more readable while for pictures and clips I have linked to them. In the text there were interspersed quotes, but as they were repetitions, I left them out.

I compared her story in the article below to one that appeared in CNN Former Xinjiang teacher claims brainwashing and abuse inside mass detention centers in March of 2019 when Sayragul Sauytb was in Kazakhstan. The CNN article is more on the education aspect and how that was enforced. In the Danish article she is telling about her own experiences and feelings, and there are things that would be to much for a CNN article, probably. Now she has been given asylum in Sweden, I don't know if that is a really happy outcome, but perhaps the best at the moment.

Apart from the area in which the story takes place, the love of a mother for her children motivates her creativity to find a way out. That part is actually encouraging. Another way of reading the story is as templates for more overt social control in general. The surveillance she describes is just one step ahead of what most of us are used to, or if it is as comprehensive, then it is more hidden. One could also read it as a suggestion of how to deal with radical Islam, but would one go that far? Regarding the abuses she claims, they can not be verified directly, some of it is shocking, some may be exaggerated. In the CNN article she is less explicit. She claims one incidence caused a weight loss of eight kg, perhaps she could not hide the impact because she had a conscience.
Headmaster's job interview ended up in a nail chair in Chinese prison camp.
27. dec 2019, 06:39Peter Mills - interview: Amalie Hovøre
In China, about a million people are currently in reform camps. TV 2 has met one of the few prisoners who have managed to escape.

The interview hadn't even started yet, when the candidate had a black bag pulled over her head.

She had never applied for the job, and in fact, the woman inside the bag had no idea that she was about to be headhunted.

It had begun with a phone call where a man had ordered the 41-year-old school inspector to meet up at a specific address, send a message to a foreign phone number and then wait.

She did not dare to be disobedient.

The wait was long.

It was almost morning, when four armed men came in, pulled the bag over her head and led the woman into a car.

After a long drive in silence, she was supposed to get a job offer she couldn't say no to.

The woman in the car is called Sayragul Sauytbay, and in her new job, forced confessions, constant monitoring and torn off fingernails were a part of everyday life.

A daily life that is still taking place - right now - in China, where, according to UN figures, around a million people are sitting in so-called 'Re-education camps'.

The pictures below are of prisoners who have just arrived by train to one of the camps. They were published by activists in september 2019.
[This is a clip from the video Woodsman posted]
Sayragul Sauytbay came to see the interior of the camps in 2017, and she is one of the few people in the West who themselves have experienced how the Chinese camp system works, and who dares to tell about it.

TV 2 has met her in Sweden, where she has been granted asylum.

Sayragul Sauytbay is an ethnic Kazakh, and belongs to the Muslim minority in the area. Before she barely got out of China, she lived in Xinjiang province, near the border with Kazakhstan.

It is today one of the world's most closed areas, where residents are being subjected to mass surveillance, and which the Chinese are accused of committing crimes against humanity.

What crimes like this look like, Sayragul Sauytbay knows quite a bit about.
For several years she experienced, how friends and family members suddenly disappeared during the night, and a November day in 2017, she then sat there in a car herself with a black bag over her head.

Was she now also herself missing?

In fact, it was the fear of disappearing that had led her to show up at the address where the armed men had put the bag over her head.

- I thought there's no other way. I can't say no, if I say no, I'll probably disappear. Then my family can't find me, tells Sayragul Sauytbay.

The camp
After the drive, she was taken out of the car, into a building, and when the bag was pulled off, she was sitting in a small room.

- This is the Education Center, the scared woman was informed.
[Picture: "Fence around one of the re-eduction camps. The picture is from Dabancheng. Photo: Thomas Peter / Ritzau Scanpix"]
She had no idea she had just arrived at a re-education camp.

What such a camp was really like, she didn't know either.

Sayragul Sauytbay had only heard about them from the Chinese media, who said that the camps was created to educate people, and she associated them with something peaceful.

You can see a clip from one of the Chinese films about the camps below here.
- We didn't know it was such a scary place, Sayragul Sauytbay says.

It turned out she hadn't ended up in the camp as an ordinary prisoner.

While she was in the little closed room, the candidate was presented with the contract of employment.

Prohibited thoughts
The job was as a language teacher in one of the camps where inmates had to learn Chinese. Many Uighurs don't speak the language, but Sayragul Sauytbay does.

- It was a multi-page document. It said something about the camp rules that I should follow. And then there was a contract of employment. I had to work as a teacher, she explains

She did not dare to do anything else but sign.

- I had no choice, if you refuse or ask questions, you lose your life, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

Exactly why she was headhunted for the new job, Sayragul Sauytbay doesn't know, but she has a hunch.

She may have thought forbidden thoughts.

Sayragul Sauytbay has grown up in a muslim family in Zhaosu County, near the border to the current Kazakhstan.

Here lived Sayragul Sauytbay
[This one is different than that which appears in the article, and instead of one there are two]
When she was a child, the Muslims in the area didn't risk being picked up by the police at night.

At that time, China was still an underdeveloped country, Xinjiang province was situated in the outskirts of China, and the ethnic Chinese were not particularly interested in the area.

But that was to change.

The underground is so rich in oil that in the old days it could be picked up from cracks in the ground with buckets.
[Picture: "Tarim oil field in the Xinjian province in 2005. Photo: China Newsphoto/Scanpix Denmark"]
For many years the remoteness of the area meant that oil was allowed to remain in the soil, but when China's economy started to grow in the 1990s, everything was going to change.

At that time, Sayragul Sauytbay was studying medicine. She got a job at a hospital, but then she changed her career and started teaching. The Chinese state trusted her, and she came to lead the running of five preschool classes.

There were more children in the province because the number of settlers was growing exponentially. Millions of ethnic Han Chinese came to work in the oil industry, and suddenly two people with different language, culture and religion had to live side by side.

The Han Chinese is the largest ethnic group in China, and the meeting between the two cultures was not going well.
[Picture of "A Han Chinese with a club during the riots in 2009. Photo Peter Parks /Scanpix Denmark"]
In 2009, there were violent riots in the province, where Uighurs and Hankins were fighting.

In a matter of days, according to the Chinese authorities, 197 people were killed before the Chinese military put a damper on the situation.

The ethnic unrest led many of the locals to seek community in islam, and like so many other places in the world began, the Chinese state to fear Islamic terrorism.

There were several bloody attacks and riots, including in 2014, when armed men drove two cars through a marketplace throwing explosives in the city of Urumqi.

China's response to Islamic terrorism was, among other things, a ban on headscarves and long beards.
[Text below the picture:] "The Xinjiang province has been hit by terror several times. In 2014, 31 lost their lives, while over 90 were injured during such an attack. According to the Chinese, it was Islamic terrorism. PHOTO: Str / Scanpix Denmark"

As tensions between Han Chinese and Uighurs grew, Sayragul Sauytbay was married. She had two children, and as time passed, the little family began to dream of freer frames in neighbouring Kazakhstan.

Freer frameworks, however, were not something the Chinese state liked.

The net is tightening
In 2014, the authorities seized Sayragul Sauytbay's passport as part of an increased control of Public Employees.

The majority of the province's remaining Muslim population got their passports revoked in 2016, but right before that, Sayragul Sauytbay's husband and children succeeded in obtaining an exit visa to Kazakhstan.

She herself was waiting for a visa, while the control of the authorities was tightening up more and more.

The authorities put cameras up all over the cities, and suddenly having all the Uighurs hand over dna samples, sound samples and biometric data, so that their whereabouts could be traced - according to Human Rights Watch.

Even going out the back door of your home could result in a police interrogation.

Officially, it was all an attempt to "remove the ideas and ideology that support terrorism", even in the propaganda films "The long battle 1-3".

This involved, among other things, the removal of mosques of Muslims and the construction of parking spaces in their cemeteries.
[Pictures 1 2 ]
In January 2017, the authorities started arresting Uighurs with family abroad.

Also Sayragul Sauytbay.

She was taken to an interrogation, where the police would know exactly where her husband and children were gone, and why they had traveled to Kazakhstan. When the interrogation was over, she was ordered to tell her husband to come home and Sayragul Sauytbay was forbidden to talk about the interrogation.

But the family did not return to China, so Sayragul Sauytbay had to go through several interrogations, and in november of 2017, she was then told to meet up at the address from which she was abducted by the four armed men.

[Picture 1, 2]
When she had signed her employment contract, she received a uniform and was taken to her new home: a tiny bedroom with concrete bed and a thin plastic mattress.

She didn't know she should be happy.

Because this was one of the good cells.

Sayragul Sauytbay found out later, that the ordinary prisoners in the camp lived within cells of 16 square meters with a small plastic bucket in the corner as a toilet.

But they weren't single cells like hers, here lived about 15 prisoners in each cell, and the rules were strict.
[Picture of place where camp is located: 2011 2019]
All prisoners were given two minutes each to go to the bathroom daily, and the plastic bucket was only emptied once a day.

If it was full, you'd have to squeeze your legs till the next day.

The prisoners were constantly chained to their hands and feet, even when they were asleep, and they were under constant surveillance.

- There were four cameras in the corners and in the middle of the ceiling, that could follow you. We were only allowed to sleep on the right side if you did not, you were brought to punishment. They could check 24 hours a day, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

The cell was even the prison sanctuary.

What the movies didn't tell you.
When they were not locked up, were the prisoners, among other things, taught in Chinese, culture, law and political ideology by Sayragul Sauytbay, but the lessons reminded most about the nursery classes, she was used to.

Here, the authorities interfered in even the slightest of details.

- I had to teach exactly as it said on the paper, and in the hours there were two armed police officers in the room says Sayragul Sauytbay.

The school day often ended with singing lessons, where prisoners had to learn the Communist songs of the regime.

Music teaching is also presented in this way in the regime's films about the camps.:
[Link to video]

The prisoners' food was rice soup except on Fridays when pork was served, if they were lucky.

Sayragul Sauytbay ate it.

The unlucky prisoners didn't get pork - they ended up in "the black room."

- It was an area where we weren't supposed to come. There were no cameras. It was a torture area, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

The first time she saw someone going in there was in the middle of one of her classes.

- The police came and took some people away. The room wasn't far from where we lived, and for 24 hours we could hear screams and people asking for help. Strange noises came from in there, and it was a nightmare for us, say Sayragul Sauytbay.

Not everyone came back from there.

- Some disappeared, but some came back with bad injuries, some with no nails and some with bruises and red marks, telling Sayragul Sauytbay.

The victims were not allowed to talk about what had happened when they came back.

The black room
But Sayragul Sauytbay soon found out herself about what was going on inside the "black room".

She worked also as an interpreter, and an attempt to help an elderly woman in the camp went wrong.

The 84-year-old woman was arrested for having used a telephone, and Sayragul Sauytbay was asked to translate.

- She said, "I'm 84 years old and Nomad. I'm Kasakh, I live from mountain to mountain, and I've never used a phone." I was just trying to translate what she said and tell them she was innocent. That's why they took me to the black room to torture me, say Sayragul Sauytbay.

First she was electrocuted.

- They took me in and beat me with electric batons. Seeing the torture tools was so scary. There were' black chairs', they call themselves' Tiger chairs', and they're running power through them. There were chairs with nails in the side, but what scared me most was torture tools that looked like needle spikes, thin and pointy, hung up in a row.

For the next two days, there was no food or water.

When she came out for a ride in the nail chair, she felt helpless.

- Then I realized we were just some kind of living corpse, she says.

[Video link]
But it's not the torture chamber she remembers today as the worst experience.

- One day, they took more than 100 of us to an open spot. They chose the youngest girl, she was about 20 years old, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

The girl was pulled out in front of the others.

- Then she stood there before us, and even though she had really done nothing wrong, she confessed all her sins, errors and crimes crying. They forced her to say it with her own mouth, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

Then came the punishment.

In front of all of us, the Chinese jailers took turns to rape her one by one. We were powerless, no man or woman could say anything to stop them. It is something I cannot forget how we were powerless victims, she says.

[Five second video clip that show the facial expression of Sayragul Sauytbay.]

If you showed emotions on an occasion like this, you risked being taken for punishment.

Sayragul Sauytbay had to suppress her emotions, and she suffered from insomnia in the camp. She says she lost eight kilos after the gang rape incident.

Back to reality
According to Sayragul Sauytbay, the prisoners in her camp were only behind the fence because of their ethnic roots.

- What we did wrong was we weren't Hann Chinese. To be Uighur or Kasakh, that is wrong, she says.

Just listening to the region's folk music could be enough to end up in a camp, says Sayragul Sauytbay.

She's certain that she ended up there herself because her family had moved to Kazakhstan.

But one day in March 2018, it was over.

The police came and took her.

[Picture: "A tower for the guards at a re-eduction camp in Hatan. Photo Greg Baker /Ritzau Scanpix."]

After a drive with a bag over her head, she found herself again in front of her home.

- They took the contract I signed at the beginning and said, "Look, anything you tell, you'll be punished for it. You can't say anything. As of tomorrow, you can go back to work, and you can say you've been to an educational conference," says Sayragul Sauytbay.

The next morning, she was back at work. No one asked where she'd been, and she tells herself she didn't say anything about the camp.

And yet the authorities weren't done with her.

After just a few days of freedom, her job was given to someone else, and Sayragul Sauytbay was taken back to interrogation.

- They said I had two faces and had been dishonest. I had to get back to camp. Not as a teacher, but as a prisoner for one or three years, she says.

Escape through the neighbor's garden
This time, however, Sayragul Sauytbay was given a few days to hand over the tasks to her successor. While it was going on, she could live at home under the supervision of the Chinese authorities.

- I figured if I go back in there as a prisoner, I'm not getting out alive. It was already two and a half years ago, I had seen my children, and then one of them just a baby, so I thought that I had to find a way to give my child a hug, say Sayragul Sauytbay.

She decided to cheat the Chinese surveillance.
[Picture link: "There is massive video surveillance in the Xinjiang province - here it is outside the mosque in the city of Urumqi. Photo: Peter Parks / Scanpix Denmark"}

I created a scene, says Sayragul Sauytbay,

The windows of her home were wide open, so no one could doubt she was cooking.

Then she ran away.

Out through a window and in through the neighbor's garden.

From there she took a taxi to the border to Kazakhstan, where she sneaked out of China and shortly after was reunited with his children in the neighboring country.

- It was midnight when I arrived. It was my greatest desire to cuddle them again just once in my life, and I did say Sayragul Sauytbay.

[Picture: "Sayragul Sauytbay whent she waited for asylum in Kasakhstan. Photo: Ruslan Pryanikov /Scanpic Denmark"]

She had fled without passports, money and personal papers, and meeting with the authorities of Kazakhstan sent her nine months in jail, before Sweden offered her asylum.

- I don't know about my own future, but my kids are safe here, she says.

According to the Chinese Embassy in Sweden, we shouldn't believe her story. The Chinese say Sayragul Sauytbay has never worked in a re-education camp and has never been detained until she left China illegally. On the other hand, she's been charged with a corruption case.

- They try in different ways to silence me. Now that they've found out they can't stop me, they'll say I'm lying. She says that's the Chinese way to do it.

Her relatives still live in the Xinjiang province, and she has heard that her father and sister have been put in the camps.

Yet she will not be forced to remain silent.

- I know it. I saw it, and it's happening to us. I can do something for them. I felt powerless, but now I can talk. Why shouldn't I do that, she says.

She knows the Chinese won't offer her a new job if she ever comes back.

- I think they're gonna cut me up, she says.

See the mini-documentary ' Caught in China's secret camps-torture or education?'on TV 2 PLAY.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It's not self-evident to me, I don't see China going around acting like the Americans, but I'm definitely willing to change that if the data shows otherwise. They may have been imperialistic in the past, but the current Xi regime seems to be very isolationist although they are getting better working with others like Russia, probably courtesy of Putin's diplomatic efforts to woo Xi out of Beijing.
China like the rest of the world changes every day. Every year new people enter the working force and others leave. If the active time in the workforce is 50 years then there is a 2 % change per year, 1 in 50 being replaced. After WW2 the Americans when they came to Europe were often easily recognised for being loud and self-confident. Considering that they were from a rich country and had won a war, that was understandable. Now China is becoming rich. Rich Chinese can go abroad and own it in a way similar to what accomplished self-confident Americans could in Europe after WW2. Not so long ago I watched a documentary from Deutsche Welle DW and while the above personality feature may not be noticeable in North America what about other areas of the world like South East Asia?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The word Gulag
The Gulag (/ˈɡuːlɑːɡ/, UK also /-læɡ/; Russian: ГУЛаг, romanized: GULag, [ɡʊˈlak] (About this soundlisten), acronym of Main Administration of Camps)[a] was the government agency in charge of the Soviet forced-labour camp-system that was set up under Vladimir Lenin[10] and reached its peak during Joseph Stalin's rule from the 1930s to the early 1950s. English-language speakers also use the word gulag to refer to any forced-labour camp in the Soviet Union, including camps which existed in post-Stalin times.[11][12] The camps housed a wide range of convicts, from petty criminals to political prisoners. Large numbers were convicted by simplified procedures, such as by NKVD troikas or by other instruments of extrajudicial punishment. The Gulag is recognised by many as a major instrument of political repression in the Soviet Union.
Of course there can be no Gulags in China - in the literal sense - which should satisfy those who claim they don't exist.

In this post there was a story about a woman from Western China who had fled to Kazakhstan. She claimed she had been having a hard time in a re-education facility. Assuming there are locations that are more rough than others, what could help create the effect? It could be corruption, psychological deviancy among some people in power and overall an ideology that could be interpreted as open to a totalitarian interpretation. Below I will consider if any of these facilitating conditions might exist in China and finally make some historical parallels with situations in European history.

Is their corruption in China? Corruption can exist in various forms but a common feature is that something takes place that is not supposed to take place or that contradicts the official policy. One can think of corruption with a view to economic gain or unlawful economic exploitation. Another form could be abuse of power for the sake of individual satisfaction. Perhaps the aspect many other have brought up, help others in case they have an accident, are robbed or beaten up is not as common as one could hope.

Psychological deviancy could be psychopathy and in the following excerpt there are some estimates for various countries:
(Belibaste) We wanted to know the percentage of psychopaths geographically speaking, like in the US, Israel, UK.

(L) Alright, let's take them one at a time.

(Belibaste) USA?

A: 23 percent.

Q: (Belibaste) United Kingdom?

A: 14 percent.

Q: (L) That's because they all went to America. (laughter)

(Ailén) Israel?

A: 42 percent.

Q: (Belibaste) France?

A: 10 percent.

Q: (Burma Jones) Russia?

A: 17

Q: (Belibaste) What about some poor country like Ethiopia?

A: 3

Q: (Joe) That's 75 million people in the US.

(Burma Jones) That's a lot of psychopaths.

(Ottershrew) What's the country that's the lowest?

A: Samoa

Q: (Belibaste) What's the percentage in Samoa?

A: 0.6

Q: (Belibaste) In Samoa there's quite a strong ethnical specificity.

(L) I don't know anything about Samoa.

(Joe) I think they're the same as the Maori.

(PoB) Just in case, is there any country with a bigger percentage than Israel?

A: Not at present

Q: (Burma Jones) So Israel is the worst at present.

(Belibaste) In the past, was there a country with a higher percentage?

A: Low Countries.

Q: (Andromeda) What about Spain?

A: 2.6

Q: (Ailén) China?

A: 0.9

Q: (Ailén) Well, there are so many people in China...

(Joe) When they said the low countries, did they all leave the low countries and go to England?

A: USA and South Africa

Q: (Ailén) What about Holland?

(L) That's the low countries.

(Ailén) But that was in the past...

(L) Oh, you mean at present?

A: Still high

Q: (L) Are you going to give us a number on that?

A: 13
(Perceval) What's the percentage of clinical psychopaths in the whole world?

A: 6.5

Q: (Perceval) How many of those are female?

A: 1.7

Q: (Ark) But the females are more dangerous.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, now wait a minute, was that 1.7 of the 6.5?

A: No.

Q: (L) So, that's 1.7 IN the 6.5?

A: Yes.

Q: (Belibaste) I wanted to ask about this psychopathic thing in the lowlands. I wanted to know in what year that the lowlands got the higher percentage of psychopathy, and what was this percentage?

A: 18 century 9 percent

Q: (L) I would say 9% would be really high in the 18th century.
Overall the number is low in China, definitely, but as mentioned there are many people. The above transcripts were from 2010 and the number given was 0.9% If we make some rough estimates and say there are 1.5 billion people in China then 1 % will be 15 million people. If we then add that for psychopaths some professions are more attractive than others, and that they are attracted to positions where they can exercise power, then it is a fair estimate that within the ranks of the people who would be administering a re-education camp the number would not be less than 1%. If there are many re-education establishments then some may have an organization that is strongly influenced by pathological types. But then if there are 23 % of psychopaths in the US, 17 % in Russia, then a few psychopaths would not be enough one should think.

Regarding the signs of an ideology that is open to a totalitarian interpretation, I looked at
Constitution of Chinese Communist Party, Constitution of Communist Party of China and found that it is broad and open to the context of the situation, but also that the organization and its goal may make it hard to always insure that no toes are stepped on. The CCP programme is a lengthy read. Here are some paragraphs from the introduction:
The Communist Party of China is the vanguard both of the Chinese working class and of the Chinese people and the Chinese nation. It is the core of leadership for the cause of socialism with Chinese characteristics and represents the development trend of China's advanced productive forces, the orientation of China's advanced culture and the fundamental interests of the overwhelming majority of the Chinese people. The realization of communism is the highest ideal and ultimate goal of the Party.

The Communist Party of China takes Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the important thought of Three Represents and the Scientific Outlook on Development as its guide to action.

Marxism-Leninism brings to light the laws governing the development of the history of human society. Its basic tenets are correct and have tremendous vitality. The highest ideal of communism pursued by the Chinese Communists can be realized only when the socialist society is fully developed and highly advanced. The development and improvement of the socialist system is a long historical process. So long as the Chinese Communists uphold the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism and follow the road suited to China's specific conditions and chosen by the Chinese people of their own accord, the socialist cause in China will be crowned with final victory.

The Chinese Communists, with Comrade Mao Zedong as their chief representative, created Mao Zedong Thought by integrating the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism with the concrete practice of the Chinese revolution. Mao Zedong Thought is Marxism-Leninism applied and developed in China; it consists of a body of theoretical principles concerning the revolution and construction in China and a summary of experience therein, both of which have been proved correct by practice; and it represents the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. Under the guidance of Mao Zedong Thought, the Communist Party of China led the people of all ethnic groups in the country in their prolonged revolutionary struggle against imperialism, feudalism and bureaucrat-capitalism, winning victory in the new-democratic revolution and founding the People's Republic of China, a people's democratic dictatorship. After the founding of the People's Republic, it led them in carrying out socialist transformation successfully, completing the transition from New Democracy to socialism, establishing the basic system of socialism and developing socialism economically, politically and culturally.

After the Third Plenary Session of the Eleventh Party Central Committee, the Chinese Communists, with Comrade Deng Xiaoping as their chief representative, analyzed their experience, both positive and negative, gained since the founding of the People's Republic, emancipated their minds, sought truth from facts, shifted the focus of the work of the whole Party onto economic development and carried out reform and opening to the outside world, ushering in a new era of development in the cause of socialism, gradually formulating the line, principles and policies concerning the building of socialism with Chinese characteristics and expounding the basic questions concerning the building, consolidation and development of socialism in China, and thus creating Deng Xiaoping Theory. Deng Xiaoping Theory is the outcome of the integration of the basic tenets of Marxism-Leninism with the practice of contemporary China and the features of the times, a continuation and development of Mao Zedong Thought under new historical conditions; it represents a new stage of development of Marxism in China, it is Marxism of contemporary China and it is the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. It is guiding the socialist modernization of China from victory to victory.

After the Fourth Plenary Session of the Thirteenth Party Central Committee and in the practice of building socialism with Chinese characteristics, the Chinese Communists, with Comrade Jiang Zemin as their chief representative, acquired a deeper understanding of what socialism is, how to build it and what kind of party to build and how to build it, accumulated new valuable experience in running the Party and state and formed the important thought of Three Represents. The important thought of Three Represents is a continuation and development of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory; it reflects new requirements for the work of the Party and state arising from the developments and changes in China and other parts of the world today; it serves as a powerful theoretical weapon for strengthening and improving Party building and for promoting self-improvement and development of socialism in China; and it is the crystallized, collective wisdom of the Communist Party of China. It is a guiding ideology that the Party must uphold for a long time to come. Persistent implementation of the Three Represents is the foundation for building the Party, the cornerstone for its governance and the source of its strength.
Re-education camps could be interpreted as a feature of "perstent implementation".Xinjiang leaks: Reporting on China's detention camps | The Listening Post (Lead) is a report from Al Jazeera English and they write:
Now, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and the New York Times say they have troves of classified documents to work with - reportedly leaked from within China's Communist Party. Both organisations say the documents prove the camps are not about "re-educating extremists" or fighting violence, as Beijing would have the world believe - but to indiscriminately imprison and brainwash Xinjiang's Muslim population.
The NYT and Human Right Watch were mentioned, but the bottom line was that a document was leaked about the re-education efforts was leaked, which the Chinese ambassador to the UK wisely said did not exist and was made up, which then the Chinese Government after all admitted did exist, but claimed was misunderstood by negative forces. Might this document they mention be the same that was mentioned by Palinurus Gulags in China?
In the Communist party programme there is also a number of points that might justify a strong re-education programme for reluctant sections of China, because China is only at the primary stage of socialism and will remain so for a long time. Here is what the party document says:
China is in the primary stage of socialism and will remain so for a long time to come. This is a historical stage which cannot be skipped in socialist modernization in China which is backward economically and culturally. It will last for over a hundred years. In socialist construction the Party must proceed from China's specific conditions and take the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics. At the present stage, the principal contradiction in Chinese society is one between the ever-growing material and cultural needs of the people and the low level of production. Owing to both domestic circumstances and foreign influences, class struggle will continue to exist within a certain scope for a long time and may possibly grow acute under certain conditions, but it is no longer the principal contradiction. In building socialism, the basic task is to further release and develop the productive forces and achieve socialist modernization step by step by carrying out reform in those aspects and links of the production relations and the superstructure that do not conform to the development of the productive forces. The Party must uphold and improve the basic economic system, with public ownership playing a dominant role and different economic sectors developing side by side, as well as the system of distribution under which distribution according to work is dominant and a variety of modes of distribution coexist, encourage some areas and some people to become rich first, gradually eliminate poverty, achieve common prosperity, continuously meet the people's ever-growing material and cultural needs on the basis of the growth of production and social wealth and promote people's all-around development. Development is the Party's top priority in governing and rejuvenating the country. The general starting point and criterion for judging all the Party's work should be how it benefits development of the productive forces in China's socialist society, adds to the overall strength of socialist China and improves the people's living standards. The Party must respect work, knowledge, talent and creation and ensure that development is for the people, by the people and with the people sharing in its fruits. The beginning of the new century marks China's entry into the new stage of development of building a moderately prosperous society in all respects and accelerating socialist modernization. The Party must promote all-around economic, political, cultural, social, and ecological progress in accordance with the overall plan for the cause of socialism with Chinese characteristics. The strategic objectives of economic and social development at this new stage in the new century are to consolidate and develop the relatively comfortable life initially attained, bring China into a moderately prosperous society of a higher level to the benefit of well over one billion people by the time of the Party's centenary and bring the per capita GDP up to the level of moderately developed countries and realize modernization in the main by the time of the centenary of the People's Republic of China.

The basic line of the Communist Party of China in the primary stage of socialism is to lead the people of all ethnic groups in a concerted, self-reliant and pioneering effort to turn China into a prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced and harmonious modern socialist country by making economic development the central task while upholding the Four Cardinal Principles and the reform and opening up policy.

In leading the cause of socialism, the Communist Party of China must persist in taking economic development as the central task, making all other work subordinate to and serve this central task. The Party must lose no time in speeding up development, implement the strategy of rejuvenating the country through science and education, the strategy of strengthening the nation with trained personnel and the strategy of sustainable development, and give full play to the role of science and technology as the primary productive force. The Party must take advantage of the advancement of science and technology to improve the quality of workers and promote sound and rapid development of the national economy.

The Four Cardinal Principles - to keep to the socialist road and to uphold the people's democratic dictatorship, leadership by the Communist Party of China, and Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought - are the foundation on which to build the country. Throughout the course of socialist modernization the Party must adhere to the Four Cardinal Principles and combat bourgeois liberalization.
The policies of the party based in a materialist ideology with a strong focus on results could contribute along with the occasional appearance of psychopathology and corruption to cases where very much force is used to achieve the goals. Add to this recollections among some people of how results were achieved in the days of Mao Zedong and during cultural revolutions and it should not be difficult to imagine that camps with excess use of force could exist.

If there are segments of the populations that are slightly different from what is considered optimal for the achievement of the goals then this might justify an objectification of "the other" that makes abuse more easy to justify for the people who commit them. European history has very many examples, perhaps most recently in Eastern Ukraine, during WW2 in Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Russian revolution and later some events in the Soviet Union, earlier Turkish style re-education of Armenia often called a genocide, the French revolution and why forget the treatment of the Irish in past centuries by the British. Is it possible some sectors of China might be no better?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
As far as opinions on China are concerned, I would say that this country's imperialist tendencies are self-evident. The current multifaceted drama is merely a natural reaction to those tendencies - expressed on the political, economic and interpersonal levels.

The most worrisome development is the increasing totalitarian slant - particularly, technological totalitarianism. It is not only worrisome for the Chinese population but also for the world at large, because it will likely become infectious and overt. No longer in the domain of conspiracy theories but a domain of an accepted fact.

I would be cautious and watchful here.

Accepted fact? As an Australian the picture for you may be different, but maybe you are referring to this report or perhaps not, as it came out after your post:
A Chinese spy defects to Australia. His shocking revelations are guaranteed to infuriate Beijing. How China conducts questionable activities around the world, including its attempts to infiltrate the Australian government.
They spend time on regurgitating the idea of Russian meddling in US election. That said the 60 minutes report is still interesting, but how much is true?


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
What I'm getting at is that their system - communist or whatever you call it - effectively protects people by stamping out terrorism; the Western system, by contrast, doesn't, and apparently encourages it - specifically, domestically, as a tool of authoritarian governance, and externally, as a tool of attacking governments it doesn't like.

Which is better?
When I read the story of Sayragul Sauytbay, the lady of Kazakh ethnicity I posted about in this post I thought about the paradox that she, who had fled western China after a traumatic experience in the re-education system, had been granted asylum in Sweden, a country that on the one hand has been very welcoming, but which also has paid a very high price like grenade attacks, harassment of the police, no-go zones, the burning of cars and a higher incidence of violence. Usually the calls from political parties for a different policy from the Swedish Government are called right wing and worse, but what if Sweden adopted a parallel to the ideology of the Chinese Communist Party, what would it be like then?

For a preview of the possibilities in this Reuters report from November 2018 they say there are no-go zones, but obviously not where the police feels unwelcome, just that Reuters journalist couldn't go there, and in this BBC report from 24 October 2018 one can read that alleged re-education camps can be build even in the middle of the desert. In Sweden they have much land that could be used.

And how do the Chinese manage their camps, where could the Swedes learn something apart from reading the claims on the Wiki on Xinjiang re-education camps. While I will return to some of the statements in the Wiki I tried some other sources, by translating the "china re-education camps" into Russian and Kazakh languages and then making searches and translating back if a result looked promising but also led to a few other finds. Unfortunately I don't get enough of the Kazakh language to understand the videos, but there were some, also disturbing ones including one that both showed the culture, history and examples of some of the present restrainment procedures, but is sharing that a good idea? Perhaps, but not in this post.

If anyone would like to tjek out other languages then I found that: Qazaqsha reuniting camp in Xinjiang: what happens to ethnic minorities in China China, the reeducation camps and the Kazakhs THE VILLAGE OF KAZAKHSTAN, DECEMBER 7, 2019 This is simply a text article which reports on the experience and journey of Sayragul Sauytbay. Somewhere they say:
About Most of the population of Uighurs, but it is home to Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Tatars and other nationalities.
The Uighur language apparently is not on the translation machines, so other than Kazakh one could

The first link to a video is Лагерь перевоспитания в Китае. Это должен знать каждый казахстанец! This is all in Russian, but In English it translates as "A re-education camp in China. Everyone should know Kazakhstan! A re-education camp in China" A short 3 minute Video report with pictures, clips, short texts across the screen in Russian on only very few voices but with ominous background music, in fact somewhat reminiscent of the music used for the monthly Sott Earth Change review. There is one claim from one former "student" Mihrigul Tursun, who mentioned cases where women had been given white tablets from which they lost consciousness and also had to drink a white liquid which affected them by giving them either no period or in some cases excessive bleeding. From another source when she saw a doctor in the US, she was told she was 90 % infertile. She claims that this was a result of the medicine she received at the school. This is possible, because the first time she gave birth she had three at once, and that is not a sign of a disposition to infertility. They reported that the Chinese ambassador to Kazakhstan had said there had been some instances outside the law. The impression of the video is that it is a waring to the population, as also people of Kazakh citizenship have been affected. The video was published by a local News Agency "Silk Road" that usually publishes completely different material, so it is a bit out of character.

Secret camps for the Kazakhs and Uighurs in China from May 2, 2019 (Секретные лагеря для казахов и уйгуров в Китае (In Russian) from DW which is Deutsche Welle, several of their reports are along the lines of multicultural Europe, human rights, gay rights, and so on which they want to impress on their Russian speaking audience. This and the next two were all published in early May of 2019 as per coincidence.

"China's Inner secret. Camps of "political re-education" through the eyes of ethnic Kazakhs" (Внутренний секрет Китая. Лагеря "политического перевоспитания" глазами этнических казахов). The Russian edition of Radio Svoboda, from March 9, 2019 They interview a number of people and the stories are not pleasant, so it would not work in Sweden I guess. One could perhaps say that the "Tibetan Cause" has faded while the Kazakh and Uighur has gained momentum as a tool for political pressurizing from the perspective of the West, but that does not mean that the claims of suffering necessarily are less than they said to be. From what I have seen outside the presentations in western media, the horrors are presented in acceptable doses to be accepted by social media.

Surviving China’s Uighur camps from May 10 2019 France 24 English
This is one of the better and more informative reports. They explain how the alleged re-education facilities have been located. About one newly constructed facility they mentions that in the classrooms there were slogans like: "Follow the directives of the President Xi Jinping on socialism with Chinese characteristics for a new Era" Translate that into Swedish and might it be: "Follow the directions of the Swedish Government to build the socialist democracy with Swedish characteristics in the new multicultural society." In the video there is an interview with Sayragul Sauytbay the former Re-education camp teacher, i have mentioned earlier. She says she taught her students to stand up and say loudly hundreds of times: "I'm Chinese I'm proud of China" which we can translate to Swedish as "I am Swedish, I'm proud of Sweden" She mentions that the students would get injections to control their minds, which is basically what Mihrigul Tursun had experienced. With regard to her lessons, she explains she had two armed police officers in the class to make sure nobody did anything wrong. She also mentions indications that there was torture taking place which they could hear while they were eating and that these were the saddest she cries she had heard in her life. Another lady that was interviewed was Gulbahar Jalilova who had been to a re-education camp. She said that while she was there she got injections, after those she had no periods, they stopped thinking about their family, their relatives about anything. She did not know where she had been born, felt that she had always lived there. They did not feel the cold, or the hunger, it was if they were just pieces of meat. One wonders if that is how the British are treating Julian Assange in the maximum security prison, where he ended up because of among other issues Sweden, which in this context sort of gives a perspective on the virtues of Sweden, but maybe also indicates that the idea of Sweden adopting Chinese re-education programs perhaps is not far fetched at all.

A tale from Gulzira Auelkhanovna /Auelkhan/Abellanosa, goes in a similar direction as some others, but the medical complications and some conditions are more explicit including skin problems, kidney problemes, lost fertility, eye problems, inflamed pancreas. She was around 40 at the time of the interviews which are in Kazakh language. You might try a translation machine. The information is contained in the next two articles in Kazakh language the machine does a rather poor job also of the headings but it leaves an idea. "Night of the hammer girls bags": Kazakhstan woman, who was in the Chinese camp, asked for assistance to compatriots
from July 12, 2019
China saw in the camp when the wife told about the Kazakh depositors' interests were protected to the maximum from January and February 2019 (That heading is a bit hard, but what the text translation is sufficient to find her her health complaints.

The following is an article about people disappearing or is it just cases of Chinese Missing 411 China 'disappeared' several high-profile people in 2018 and some of them are still missing By Tracey Shelton and Bang Xiao Updated 5 Jun 2019, 11:41pm

The Chinese have responded to the allegations and a summary is given in Xinjiang re-education camps - Wikipedia and here Sweden may hear what might well happen to it if it is unable to act. It will postphone the tragedy until later, at least if we ask the Chinese Government for some advise.
The Chinese government denied the existence of re-education camps in Xinjiang[citation needed], until October 2018, when it officially legalized them.[268] When international media had asked about the re-education camps, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it had not heard of this situation.[269]

On 12 August 2018, a Chinese state-run tabloid, Global Times, defended the crackdown in Xinjiang[270] after a U.N. anti-discrimination committee raised concerns over China's treatment of Uyghurs. According to the Global Times, China prevented Xinjiang from becoming 'China's Syria' or 'China's Libya', and local authorities' policies saved countless lives and avoided a 'great tragedy'.[271][272] The paper published another editorial the day after, titled "Xinjiang policies justified".[273]

On 13 August 2018, at a UN meeting in Geneva, the delegation from China told the United Nations Human Rights Committee that "There is no such thing as re-education centers in Xinjiang and it is completely untrue that China put 1 million Uyghurs into re-education camps".[274][275][276] A Chinese delegation said that "Xinjiang citizens, including the Uyghurs, enjoy equal freedom and rights." They claimed that "Some minor offenders of religious extremism or separatism have been taken to 'vocational education' and employment training centers with a view to assisting in their rehabilitation".[277]

On 14 August 2018, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said "anti-China forces had made false accusations against China for political purposes and a few foreign media outlets misrepresented the committee's discussions and were smearing China's anti-terror and crime-fighting measures in Xinjiang" after a U.N. human rights committee raised concern over reported mass detentions of ethnic Uyghurs.[278][279]

On 21 August 2018, Liu Xiaoming, the Ambassador of China to the United Kingdom, wrote an article in response to a Financial Times report entitled "Crackdown in Xinjiang: Where have all the people gone?".[280] Liu's response said: "The education and training measures taken by the local government of Xinjiang have not only effectively prevented the infiltration of religious extremism and helped those lost in extremist ideas to find their way back, but also provided them with employment training in order to build a better life."[281]

On 10 September 2018, China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang condemned a report about the re-education camps issued by Human Rights Watch. He said: "This organisation has always been full of prejudice and distorting facts about China." Geng also added that: "Xinjiang is enjoying overall social stability, sound economic development and harmonious co-existence of different ethnic groups. The series of measures implemented in Xinjiang are meant to improve stability, development, solidarity and people's livelihood, crack down on ethnic separatist activities and violent and terrorist crimes, safeguard national security, and protect people's life and property."[282][283]

On 11 September 2018, China called for U.N. human rights chief Michelle Bachelet to "respect its sovereignty", after she urged China to allow monitors into Xinjiang and expressed concern about the situation there.[284] Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said: "China urges the U.N. human rights high commissioner and office to scrupulously abide by the mission and principles of the U.N. charter, respect China's sovereignty, fairly and objectively carry out its duties, and not listen to one-sided information".[285][284][286]

On 16 October 2018, a CCTV prime-time program aired a 15 minute episode on what was termed as Xinjiang's 'Vocational Skills Educational Training Centers', featuring the Muslim internees. Sinologist Manya Koetse documented that it received a mixture of supportive and critical responses on the Sina Weibo social media platform.[287]

In March 2019, against the background of the US considering imposing sanctions against Chen Quanguo, who is the region's most senior Communist Party official, Xinjiang governor Shohrat Zakir denied the existence of the camps.[citation needed] [241]

On 18 March 2019, the Chinese government released a white paper about the counter-terrorism, de-radicalization in Xinjiang. The white paper claims "A country under the rule of law, China respects and protects human rights in accordance with the principles of its Constitution." The white paper also claims Xinjiang has not had violent terrorist cases for more than two consecutive years, extremist penetration has been effectively curbed, and social security has improved significantly.[288]

In July 2019, the Chinese government released another white paper that claims "The Uygur people adopted Islam not of their own volition … but had it forced upon them by religious wars and the ruling class."[289] A Global Times opinion piece the same month claimed that the re-education camps employed "the advanced version of normal social govern" and said the process is "the victory of all the Chinese people including Xinjiang people".[290] In November 2019, the Chinese ambassador in London responded questions about newly leaked documents on Xinjiang by calling the documents "fake news."[226]

On 6 December 2019, China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying accused the US of hypocrisy on human rights issues relating to allegations of torture at Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[291][292]

Response from exiled dissidents
On 10 August 2018, about 47 Chinese intellectuals and others, in exile, issued an appeal against what they describe as "shocking human rights atrocities perpetrated in Xinjiang".[293]
Russia, Belarus, Tajikistan, and 34 countries in the UN Council on human rights supported the policy "to transport" in the prison of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous region (UAG).
These countries at the meeting of the UN Council on human rights supported the Chinese statements after the letter of 22 States (EU members, Japan, Australia, Canada, New Zealand), who wrote and accused the actions of Beijing in the open letter.

About 40 delegations "have made progress in the field of human rights protection in the Chinese Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous region", - said the representative of China Chen Xu.

According to him, over the past three years the lack of terrorist acts in the region shows the right way of the state. In June, Chinese authorities denied reports about the torture of prisoners in the Uighur camps. "The education centres and vocational education are characterized as a concentration camp," said Deputy foreign Minister Zhang Changhua.

In August 2018, the UN Commission on human rights reported that in closed camps in Xinjiang were at least one million people. On it the Chairman of the PRC, examining the ideas of XI Jinping, makes you say revolutionary songs. Not born speaks Chinese. Beijing authorities explained that the presence of the camps will contribute to the prevention of terrorist acts in the region. Those who have passed re-education, they say that people in the camp suffer.
On the Wiki there is :
If we take the above clue then Sweden could get away with re-educating some of the people Chinese style, but perhaps not while in the EU.

The next video is in Russian, Chinese re-education camp for the Kazakhs and Uighurs | Police state in Kashgar (Russian) which in 22 minutes takes some time to explain the general situation and gives some perspectives. He is saying that the surveillance technology which the Chinese have developed in connection with their needs in Northwestern China has been sold to other countries. He claims that in one city or part of a city, the Chinese allegedly burned all books published before 2009, which if even partially true, surely takes Quran burning, a single of which results in violence and hysteria in Western Europe, to whole new industrial level. But the question is of course if it is true?
And as a comment to the millions of cameras and the re-education centers there is this reference to George Orwell's book 1984:

I think it is possible that Sweden, as an example of the West, could benefit from the Chinese approach, at least there are some problems that are difficult to handle. But would Sweden rather be willing to suffer the fate of Syria and Libya or let events unfold until an event takes place that will make a tough choice more easy to make? One problem with the "solution" they have in China is that many rather innocent people suffer. Is there really no alternative to punishing/educating many times more the number of people who create the problems, and is there no alternative to very harsh methods and sterilization. Before the Uyghur adopted Islam they were first Manichaeans and then Buddhists. Uyghurs - Wikipedia
The second Uyghur kingdom, the Kingdom of Qocho, also known as Uyghuristan in its later period, was founded in the Turpan area with its capital in Qocho (modern Gaochang) and Beshbalik. The Kingdom of Qocho lasted from the ninth to the fourteenth century and proved to be longer-lasting than any power in the region, before or since.[52] The Uyghurs were originally Manichaean, but converted to Buddhism during this period. Qocho accepted the Qara Khitai as its overlord in the 1130s, and in 1209 submitted voluntarily to the rising Mongol Empire. The Uyghurs of Kingdom of Qocho were allowed significant autonomy and played an important role as civil servants to the Mongol Empire, but was finally destroyed by the Chagatai Khanate by the end of the 14th century.[52][110] [....]Uyghur Qocho remained mainly Buddhist until the 15th century, and the conversion of the Uyghur people to Islam was not completed until the 17th century.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Having recalled from work on another thread Ghandi a evil racist similarly to the Dalai Lama."Tibet Paradise" Myth. M.Teresa that the Dzungar people had been eradicated by the Chinese Qing Dynasty in the 18th century, I wondered how the Uyghur came to live where they Dzungars used to live?

In this post there are a remarks about the Dzungar people and the Dzungar genocide by the Qing Dynasty, along with the reasons the Qing Dynasty had for this expedition. Understanding the past can sometimes help to understand the present and perhaps help to forsee the outcome.

About the Dzungar people there is:
The name Dzungar people, also written as Zunghar (literally züüngar, from the Mongolian for "left hand"), referred to the several Oirat tribes who formed and maintained the Dzungar Khanate in the 17th and 18th centuries. Historically they were one of major tribes of the Four Oirat confederation. They were also known as the Eleuths or Ööled, from the Qing dynasty euphemism for the hated word "Dzungar",[1] and also called "Kalmyks". In 2010, 15,520 people claimed "Ööled" ancestry in Mongolia.[2] An unknown number also live in China, Russia, and Kazakhstan.
The Dzungars were a confederation of several Oirat tribes that emerged in the early 17th century to fight the Altan Khan of the Khalkha (not to be confused with the better known Altan Khan of the Tümed), the Jasaghtu Khan, and later the Manchu for dominion and control over the Mongolian people and territories. This confederation rose to power in what became known as Dzungaria between the Altai Mountains and the Ili River Valley. Initially, the confederation consisted of the Oöled, Dorbet (also written Derbet) and Khoit tribes. Later on, elements of the Khoshut and Torghut tribes were forcibly incorporated into the Dzungar military, thus completing the re-unification of the West Mongolian tribes.

According to oral history, the Oöled and Dörbed tribes are the successor tribes to the Naiman, a Mongol tribe that roamed the steppes of Central Asia during the era of Genghis Khan. The Oöled shared the clan name Choros with the Dörvöd. "Zuun gar" (left hand) and "Baruun gar" (right hand) formed the Oirat's military and administrative organization. The Dzungar Olots and Choros became the ruling clans in the 17th century.

The above description of the Oirat is lacking the older history, here is a section from Oirats - Wikipedia
One of the earliest mentions of the Oirat people in a historical text can be found in The Secret History of the Mongols, the 13th century chronicle of Genghis Khan's rise to power. In the Secret History, the Oirats are counted among the "forest people" and are said to live under the rule of a shaman-chief known as bäki. They lived in Tuva and Mongolian Khövsgöl Province and the Oirats moved to the south in the 14th century.[8]
"Forrerst people" has by another source been taken to mean that they were forrest nomads, which makes sense as there was forrest in the north of Siberia.

Next is an excerpts from the Wiki about the Dzungar genocide, which at the same time explain how the Uyghurs came to inhabit Xinjiang:
The Dzungar genocide was the mass extermination of the Mongol Buddhist Dzungar people, at the hands of the Manchu Qing dynasty of China.[2] The Qianlong Emperor ordered the genocide due to the rebellion in 1755 by Dzungar leader Amursana against Qing rule, after the dynasty first conquered the Dzungar Khanate with Amursana's support. The genocide was perpetrated by Manchu generals of the Qing army sent to crush the Dzungars, supported by Uyghur allies and vassals due to the Uyghur revolt against Dzungar rule.

The Dzungar Khanate was a confederation of several Tibetan Buddhist Oirat Mongol tribes that emerged in the early 17th century, and the last great nomadic empire in Asia. Some scholars estimate that about 80% of the Dzungar population, or around 500,000 to 800,000 people, were killed by a combination of warfare and disease during or after the Qing conquest in 1755–1757.[3][4] After wiping out the native population of Dzungaria, the Qing government then resettled Han, Hui, Uyghur, and Xibe people on state farms in Dzungaria along with Manchu Bannermen to repopulate the area.
The Dzungar people suffered a fate like that of the American Indians, it seems.
Next there is a mention of Afaqi Khoja. He was, as mentioned later, the one who invited the Dzungars to subjugate the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs then went to the Qing Dynasty to complain about the Dzungars. The Qing Dynasty did away with the Dzungars, and resettled some of the Uyghurs along with their own people and others where the Dzungars had lived. Later Afaqi Khoja fought the Qing Dynasty in order to reclaim what we know as Xinjiang, which is ironic because it was Afaqi Khoja who had invited the Dzungars to fight the Uyghurs. Later the Qing dynasty fought the successors of Afaqi Khojas until they were no more. If one takes this in a century perspective, Tibetan Buddhism lost, the Chinese civilisation gained, Islam also gained in the short term, but now it almost looks like they could learn something from the fate of the Dzungars and for that matter from the Tibetans in Tibet.

Since the Wiki about
Afaqi Khoja Holy war has a map, I will take that first before returning to the Dzungar genocide.
In 1759, the Qing Dynasty of China defeated the Jungar Mongols and completed the conquest of Dzungaria. Concurrent with this conquest, the Qing occupied the Altishahr region of Eastern Turkestan which had been settled by the followers of the Muslim political and religious leader Afaq Khoja. [6] [7]

After the Qing conquest, the Chinese began to incorporate Altishahr and the Tarim Basin into their empire. The territory came to be known as Xinjiang. Although the followers of Āfāq Khoja known as the Āfāqī Khojas resisted Qing rule, their rebellion was put down and the khojas were removed from power. [8]

Map of Altishahr (Xinjiang) relative to China
Map of Altishahr (Xinjiang) relative to China

Beginning at that time and lasting for approximately one hundred years, the Āfāqi Khojas waged numerous military campaigns as a part of a holy war in an effort to retake Altishahr from the Qing.
Now back to Dzungar genocide - Wikipedia
Khoja Emin alliance with Qing[edit]
The Dzungars had conquered and subjugated the Uyghurs during the Dzungar conquest of Altishahr, after being invited by the Afaqi Khoja to invade.
Heavy taxes were imposed upon the Uyghurs by the Dzungars, with women and refreshments provided by the Uyghurs to the tax collectors. Uyghur women were allegedly gang raped by the tax collectors when the amount of tax was not satisfactory.[28]

Anti-Dzungar Uyghur rebels from the Turfan and Hami oases submitted to Qing rule as vassals and requested Qing help for overthrowing Dzungar rule. Uyghur leaders like Emin Khoja 額敏和卓 were granted titles within the Qing nobility, and these Uyghurs helped supply the Qing military forces during the anti-Dzungar campaign.[29][30][31] The Qing employed Khoja Emin in its campaign against the Dzungars and used him as an intermediary with Muslims from the Tarim Basin, to inform them that the Qing only sought to kill Oirats (Dzungars), and that they would leave the Muslims alone. To convince them to kill the Dzungars themselves and side with the Qing, since the Qing noted the Muslims' resentment of their former Dzungar rulers at the hands of Tsewang Araptan.[32]
The Qing genocide against the Dzungar depopulated the land. This made the Qing-sponsored settlement of millions of ethnic Han Chinese, Hui, Turkestani Oasis people (Uyghurs) and Manchu Bannermen in Dzungaria possible.[1][33] Professor Stanley W. Toops noted that today's demographic situation is similar to that of the early Qing period in Xinjiang. In northern Xinjiang, the Qing brought in Han, Hui, Uyghur, Xibe, and Kazakh colonists after they exterminated the Dzungar Oirat Mongols in the region, with one third of Xinjiang's total population consisting of Hui and Han in the northern area, while around two thirds were Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang's Tarim Basin.[34][35] In Dzungaria, the Qing established new cities like Ürümqi and Yining.[36] After the Chinese defeated Jahangir Khoja in the 1820s, 12,000 Turki (Uyghur) Taranchi families were deported by China from the Tarim Basin to Dzungaria to colonize and repopulate the area.[37] The Dzungarian basin, which used to be inhabited by Dzungars, is currently inhabited by Kazakhs.[38]
Regarding the Kazakhs, there is another side of the activity of the Dzungars which is that they fought many battles with the people living in Kazakhstan which gave the people very many troubles. In Russian there are many youtube presentations that will tell the story. On this one can turn on translation, it also has map and the time it took place. Another video with English voice over has a different perspective:
The myth of the age-old enmity of the Kazakhs and the Dzhungars
They argue bravely that that the enmity was between Kazakhs and Dzungars was a myth, but there were apparently also disagreements:
Map of the Dzungar Khanate in the 17th century

Map showing Dzungar–Qing Wars between Qing Dynasty and Dzungar Khanate
During the entire period of the Kazakh-Dzungar wars, the Dzungars fought on two fronts. In the west, they waged an aggressive occupational war against the Kazakhs, and in the east as well with the Qing Dynasty. The Kazakhs also fought on several fronts in which from the east with Dzungaria, the west where they were disturbed by Yaik Cossacks, Kalmyks and Bashkirs who constantly raided the border, and from the south against the states of Kokand, Bukhara, and Khiva.

After the death of the Galdan Tsereng in 1745 which caused an internal strife and civil war, by the struggle of candidates for the main throne and the disputes by the ruling elite of Dzungaria, one of whose representatives, Amursan, called for Chinese troops. As a result, the Dzungar Khanate fell. Its territory was surrounded by two Manchurian armies, numbering more than half a million people along with auxiliary troops from conquered people. Abylai chose not to take sides. He sheltered Amursana and Dawachi before from attacks by the Khoshut-Orait King of Tibet, Lha-bzang Khan. However, once Amursana and Dawachi were no longer allies, Abylai Khan took the opportunity to capture herds and territory from the Dzungars. More than 90% of the population of Dzungaria who were mostly women, old people, and children killed by the Qing army . About ten thousand families of Dzungars, derbets, and Hoyts, led by the Noyan and Tsereng, fought hard and went to the Volga of the Kalmyk principality. Some Dzungars made their way to Afghanistan, Badakhshan, and Bukhara who accepted military services by local rulers with their descendants eventually converting to Islam.
In the above it sayt: "Amusana called for Chinese troops" This confused me because above we were told about Afaqi Khoja. Apparently there has been much division and several contributing factors: Here is what the Wiki about Amursana claims, which eventually brings one back to Afaqi Khoja or his descendants and followers here called Altishahr Khojas:
As a Khoit, Amursana did not rank as part of the Dzungar Khanate's hierarchy and relied on Dawachi for influence among the various Oirat clans. Nevertheless, marriage to the daughter of Ablai Khan, leader of the neighboring Kazakh Khanate, and alliances with various Oirat clan leaders enabled him to build up enough support to call on Dawachi to divide the Khanate's lands between them. Dawachi refused and instead attacked his former ally, forcing him to flee east to Khovd.[3] There, Amursana swore allegiance to the Qing Qianlong Emperor, bringing with him 5,000 soldiers and 20,000 women and children.[2] He then traveled to Beijing to seek the emperor's assistance in defeating Dawachi and retaking Ili and neighboring Kashgar. Amursana's persuaded the ambitious and glory-seeking Qianlong to back his plan,[4] in addition to granting him a princedom of the first degree (雙親王; 双亲王), which entitled Amursana to double stipends and privileges, as a bonus.[2]

Meanwhile, most of the Oirat Khoshut had also defected to the Qing leaving Dawachi—reportedly a "drunken and incompetent" ruler—with only the Dzungars under his control.[2]
Amursana had hoped to usurp Dawachi's position as head of the Dzungars but Qianlong had already pre-empted such a move. Before the expedition to Ili had set out and fearing the rise of a new Mongolian empire, Qianlong had proclaimed that the four Oirat clans of Dzungaria would be resettled in their own territory each with their own Khan appointed directly by Beijing. Amursana spurned the offer of Khan over the Khoits and demanded to be khan of all Oirats. Amursana was instructed to return to Beijing but sensing danger, he escaped from his escort en route to the Qing imperial resort of Chengde on 24 September 1755.[2]
Amursana returned to Ili to rally the insurgents and almost annihilated Zhao Hui's forces. The hopelessly outnumbered Chinese general, despite putting up a spirited defence, was forced to retreat with 500 soldiers.[7] The rebels cut the post routes to the capital but Zhao Hui managed to fight his way back to Barkul, where he pleaded with Qianlong to take more drastic measures against the rebels.[2]
Meanwhile, Qing attention became temporarily focused on the Khalka prince Chingünjav, a descendant of Genghis Khan, who between the summer of 1756 and January 1757 mounted the most serious Khalka Mongol rebellion against the Qing until its demise in 1911. Before dealing with Amursana, the majority of Qianlong's forces were reassigned to ensure stability in Khalka until Chingünjav's army was crushed by the Qing in a ferocious battle near Lake Khövsgöl in January, 1757.[8]

After the victory, Qianlong dispatched additional forces to Ili where they quickly routed the rebels. Amursana escaped for a third time to the Kazakh Khanate, but not long afterwards Ablai Khan pledged tributary status to the Chinese, which meant Amursana was no longer safe.[2]
Amursana's revolt and the subsequent subjugation of the Oirats led to the Revolt of the Altishahr Khojas (1757-1759) south of the Tian Shan range and the final Qing conquest of the Tarim Basin. The abortive rebellion also dealt the death blow to Dzungaria and the Dzungar people. history of Xianjing is complicated, but suppression of the Muslim Uyghurs and Kazakhs appears to be very much in line with the history of Chinese policies in the area over the last 500 years since the Oirat rulers blew their chances by creating problems due to greed and infighting. There are many lessons in the stories above including the problem of getting rid of a powerful helper when the less powerful no longer thinks he needs help, but has forgotten there often is a price to pay.
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